I posted this over in recovery thought you might be interested too.

It seems to me that I read over and over again,from mostly women, how cruel,unfeeling, and unrepentent the male WSs are. Of course this is a generalization but the senario seems to be repeated over and over. Regarding the female WS she seems to feel a certain measure of guilt and in fact that guilt has led them to end their A's at least that was the case for me. Obviously these are not scientific facts it just comes from what I've read here on this board.

I am not too far away from being one of "those"(unfeeling let's forget about it types) guys in fact, to Mrs Hiker I have been one of "them". So "what's a girl to do" with us?

First I think you have to get our attention. Now if you were guys you would go out and find two bouncer types and have them do their best, just short of death, on the old boy . Since most of you do not have those resources you may have to rely on something much more efficient and yet sinister. Your femeninity. That is one of the things that got us in the first place.

Many of you have said but Hiker "I've been doing my best plan A and the jerk is still mooning over that slut". Here is my theory on that...when I was growing up I was in band and I've associated with a lot of band geeks and seen band programs excell and die out(stay with me). When the "old band director" left the program, even if he was a jerk and a tyrant, he immediatly became a "saint" in the kids eyes(Hang in here I am getting to it ). The old band director chose all those kids to be in the program(here it comes).

OW chose us...we thought we chose her but for the most part it has been the woman who was in control even when we (ahem...the machisimo, verile studs that we are) thought we "had her" she, in actuallity, "had us" sometimes figurativly and sometimes literally by those two little things way down there. Some of those OW still have a grip. Like the old band director she has become a "saint" or should I say "goddess" in our eyes. She charmed us, thought we were cute, handsome, funny and maybe even thought we smelled good. She never asked us to take out the trash, fix the toilet or balance the checkbook. If we gave her "gifts" she loved everyone of them (and then threw them in the trash as we left).

So how do you overcome that? I think by being you. The same sweet, charming self you've always been. Listen to him but do not give too much sway to his talk if he is still "back there" and wondering about how perfect it would have been "if only...". You have all the "equipment" you need to "win him back". If it needs to be "shined up a bit" then "shine it up" but most of "us" know who you are and what you have to offer and realize that we don't want to gamble on what OW has hidden in her closet nor does OW really want to chance it with us either.

If "we" are too big and strong to get help then you get it for you. If we whine and complain that your "whatever" isn't what it used to be lay his "gut be gone" on the bed in the am and you become the person you have always wanted to be or know that you are all you need to be and if he is too dumb to know it ya don't need him.

Juliet(she was "not yet fourteen") had it right when she said to Romeo, "If that thy bent(intention) of love be honerable, send me word tommorow...and all my fortunes at thy foot I'll lay And follow thee my lord through out the world(sounds like plan A)
-But if thou meanest not well (your still hung up on the B**** or all you want is sex-modern translation), I do beesech thee-cease thy strife(get your A** outa here) and leave me to my grief". Even Juliet knew with a good cry she could get over the love of her life.

My desire is to give you hope...both WS and BS alike. It is too expensive to give up on the marriages we have...These marriages are not like that old car that we kept pouring money into and still we were not satisfied with them. Our marriages are living creations that deserve, sometimes by heroic efforts, to be kept alive.

Our marriages are rare "things of beauty" and can be a lasting statement to our families, communities and our world that love "will direct our course"(The Prophet). That we might "know the pain of too much tenderness"..."To be wounded by our own understanding of love...and bleed willingly and joyfully...to give thanks for another day of loving"(The Prophet). That we "are nothing at all without love"( 1Cor 13:2 LNT).
H
(not proof read or previewed)

Hiker,
Bravo,
Ladies do you think that this could be said for you as well?
What your thought Hiker?

I don't know what you're saying Hiker.I came away with more questions than any affirmations or aggreements.

Are you saying that we,as women,have to act a certain way to get you to stay with us? Are you saying that you will always be thinking about the homewrecker even though you are no longer in an adulterous relationship with said person? Are you saying that if snake charmed,all our husband's can be lead astray at any given moment of weakness?

So what would you suggest to someone like me who has filed for a D since my WH was incapable or unwilling to give up the homewrecker but is willing to give up a 20 year friendship,13 year marriage,former very loving wife,family life and beautiful home for a woman he thinks he knows?

Sorry but this post left a sour taste in my mouth.Maybe you can elaborate more? Maybe I am misreading it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


O

Hiker, I have to agree with O here. I just don't think it's that simple. There are women here who are smart, funny and beautiful, so why are they here?

Also, my A didn't end because of my guilt, it ended because the OM dumped me. If all it had taken to get me back was for my H to start being "extra nice" it wouldn't have happened. What it took was my H's love, courage, perseverence, love, doggedness, love - you name it, he did it.

I do agree that marriages are very precious. Funny, I said to him this morning "we have to look after this marriage forever." He was absolutely overwhelmed and said it was the sweetest and nicest thing I'd ever said.

Jenny

OG and Jen,

Thanks for your comments. These discussions allow me to learn.

OK I better think about this before I open my mouth again.

I did qualify what I was writing was a "generalization" and not "scientific". My thoughts came from my reading posts, from women who's Hs continue to blame them for the H's A (obviously I haven't read everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).

I was speaking to (female) BS from my persective as a WS. Perhaps I should have addressed the ones that were specifically on my mind and not the entire board.

Octg

I cannot erase the past...I am not sitting around "pining" over the OW. I have made my W and family the focus of my life but OW's memory remains both with me and my W. That memory will certainly fade. But I still remember being paddled in front of my first grade class, something I'd like to forget and so realisticly some memory of OW will remain. I don't think that people are "snake charmed" into an A. They make that decision on their own. It may be impossible to completly disect that decision unless we could somehow go back and view it "frame by frame".

No I don't think you have to change your behavior or to look a certain way to keep your H. Just be you and know that you are good enough and he is damn lucky to have you.

I am sorry if what I have said here is too simplistic. I wasn't far from the path your H has taken. On the other hand I knew that Mrs Hiker had lived with me "in sickness and health"...she lived wih my depression..."for richer or poorer" we struggled together through plenty of lean times etc. That if I had it to "do all over again" I'd marry her because it was with her that we had the children and now the grandson I dearly love. I could never throw that away.

I cannot suggest anything to you except applaud your courage and mourn your loss.

Jen
Yes your H deserves credit for his efforts and so does Mrs H. But you are there because you wanted it to work too so I am sure you have contributed your share of the work as well. Not every A ends because of guilt, not every A ends because of discovery. It is sad that some marriages do not survive and that so many have gone through this devastation. I am fortunate indeed to be where I am in our M.

Respectfully
H

Hiker, I wasn't criticising your post in any way just telling it from my point of view.

All this helps us learn doesn't it?

All the best.

Jen

yes
I know you were not being critical...thanks for your input
H

<small>[ August 14, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>