An update to my latest regarding my WW. The past couple of days since the exposure (which has worked extremely well for those reading), new emphasis on Plan A (again moments of clarity followed by many "foggy" moments), WW is now officially sitting on the fence. Last night she discussed moving out again and spoke of finances, need to clear my head, etc., etc. I held strong and provided no LB's...Just caring and understanding and prefaced every single response with something about this being her decision. I have not and will not take any position to show that I was a part of what appears to be coming. I also didn't bring up the separation agreement. I'm following the advice of the "experienced" and will address it again after WW moves out.

What I'm experiencing and I'm concerned with is that although I haven't said anything about Plan B, WW is under the assumption that she will be coming and going at will, meeting early in the morning to take DD to school and still making future plans as a family. This is extremely difficult to endure but what I've learned from others is this is a necessary step. I'm also concerned about the timing of Plan B. Not having a separation agreement and many joint accounts, the week is closing in. Looks like WW has "decided" to move Thursday. My initial plan was to assist with her move (as described in SAA), provide the separation agreement (work until signed - not sure if WW will sign) and then give her the Plan B letter.

My question for the "experienced ones"....Would it benefit me to wait another week and allow this fence sitting, continuing on with Plan A while she is living elsewhere? or would I get the better response combining moving and Plan B?

BTW, WW doesn't want a single thing from the house because she tells me "that she "knows" this is a temporary move and doesn't want to break up the home"!!! What the he&% is that supposed to mean? Oh yea, aliens and fog talk!

I know the pain I'm feeling will subside eventually but each step seems to bring a different pain deep in my soul. The MB philosophy has worked almost to the exact statements provided from the wonderful, giving folks here.

Please help if you have some insight as I am working on my Plan B letter in addition to reading posts.

Thanks to those who have provided such insight, guidance and support. I can only say that if your "lurking", the plans, expectations and experiences have helped me more than words can express (Pure Bob is also a changed man).

God Bless.

I recommend securing the separation document first, then going straight to Plan B assuming she leaves in the meantime.

Some may argue that you shouldn't go to Plan B until your love bank is nearly empty, and I recognize this is closer to "pure" MB guidance.

My recommendation is based on not delaying Plan B once 1) you have reasonably demonstrated your Plan A improvements, 2) a physical separation has occurred, and 3) financial and custody arrangements have been made.

The reason for not delaying Plan B is twofold - to preserve a bigger balance in your love bank and to provide a more closely linked cause and effect to HER decision to leave. Plan B is a consequence of her choices that she has to feel.

It seems to me you're only lacking #3 once she leaves. You have to be the judge as to whether further Plan A activities need to continue to leave her with the impression that you are something to lose. Don't expect her to show or voice this - just make sure in your mind that you've demonstrated a good "product."

Please get other opinions.

WAT

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

LostSailor,

Ditto WAT's impeccable advice

More insight from names I've become quite familiar with. Thank you and I hope to gain insight from others as well.

WAT/CY....I believe I've executed a very good Plan A. Last night (during the moving out conversation, WW said "I'm so lucky to have you" and a couple of days ago WW said "I know you're trying, I can see that". I bring that up because an earlier post said something like "FWS's who were handed a good Plan A stated they may not hear everything but they see everything and consistency had the largest impact". In moments of clarity from the fog, I truly believe she has seen some of the light from the "lighthouse".

I'm absorbing the feedback and I'm working on my Plan B letter. My mind eases with the experienced MBr's.

For those who have Plan B'd, is it contradictory to assist with the move or is it another opportunity to Plan A? SAA's example showed where BH helped her move (financially, physically, etc). Part of me says this is "pushing WW out the door" and another part of me "says this is needed and needed now".

More insight from names I've become quite familiar with. Thank you and I hope to gain insight from others as well.

WAT/CY....I believe I've executed a very good Plan A. Last night (during the moving out conversation, WW said "I'm so lucky to have you" and a couple of days ago WW said "I know you're trying, I can see that". I bring that up because an earlier post said something like "FWS's who were handed a good Plan A stated they may not hear everything but they see everything and consistency had the largest impact". In moments of clarity from the fog, I truly believe she has seen some of the light from the "lighthouse".

I'm absorbing the feedback and I'm working on my Plan B letter. My mind eases with the experienced MBr's.

For those who have Plan B'd, is it contradictory to assist with the move or is it another opportunity to Plan A? SAA's example showed where BH helped her move (financially, physically, etc). Part of me says this is "pushing WW out the door" and another part of me "says this is needed and needed now".

More insight from names I've become quite familiar with. Thank you and I hope to gain insight from others as well.

WAT/CY....I believe I've executed a very good Plan A. Last night (during the moving out conversation, WW said "I'm so lucky to have you" and a couple of days ago WW said "I know you're trying, I can see that". I bring that up because an earlier post said something like "FWS's who were handed a good Plan A stated they may not hear everything but they see everything and consistency had the largest impact". In moments of clarity from the fog, I truly believe she has seen some of the light from the "lighthouse".

I'm absorbing the feedback and I'm working on my Plan B letter. My mind eases with the experienced MBr's.

For those who have Plan B'd, is it contradictory to assist with the move or is it another opportunity to Plan A? SAA's example showed where BH helped her move (financially, physically, etc). Part of me says this is "pushing WW out the door" and another part of me "says this is needed and needed now".

Sorry.....bad computer

LS,

OK riddle this one for me. I assume since you are talking about going to plan B, that she is still in contact with OM, is that right? If that is so, where is the </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW doesn't want a single thing from the house because she tells me "that she "knows" this is a temporary move and doesn't want to break up the home"!!! What the he&% is that supposed to mean? Oh yea, aliens and fog talk!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">coming from? Have you asked her this? Perhaps you should.

As for going to plan B, Harley contends that most wait too long, and when they are "delicately perched on the fence" is a good time for plan B.

So go for it. She is in the fog, and I don't think she understands that she may lose all of the way around. OM will leave her, you may leave her, and she will just be out.

I think you need to get the separation agreement sorted out NOW, and presented to her. That will be an eye opener, when that happens.

It seems to me she is in the classic situation of misinterpretting your plan A behavior. She sees you changing, and she knows you are trying, but she does NOT see that you are hurting and that she is at risk of losing your support.

I would definitely help her move as that reinforces that you will help her IF OM is out of the picture. I presume she is getting a place that OM is NOT occupying. If she were moving in with OM, there would be no way you should help her. I and you probably do as well, that this "separation" is to give her more time with OM. It is NOT to sort her stuff out, but then he gets to meet all of her needs.

Hang in there and keep with the plans, you seem to be doing very well.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL. More clear advice that I'm taking to heart and action.

WW is still in contact with OM. Tears my heart out to see WW strategically place her cell phone where she can see if OM called. This during DD's birthday party, family outings, etc. I'm beginning to hate the cell phone and although not in MB fashion, I find myself looking at it when in the vicinity. If there is a missed call on the screen, I open the cell and close it show it only shows the time. WW doesn't know OM called and doesn't know I did it. Is that healthy or should I let that ride. Of course in a few days it won't matter because WW will most likely be elsewhere.

I find myself wanting WW to go in an effort to expedite what I'm praying for - rebuilding our M. Patience is something that I've learned from the experienced MBr's but reading some other posts, I ask myself whether this is happening way too fast for true reconcilliation.

Any comments about time or is it something that is different (yet the same) for all the BS's?

LS,

I would say from your response, that her moving out, and you going to plan B might be a good thing. The little things like the cell phone will deplete your LB before the A ends. Is your W making any noises about ending the A with OM? I mean she is expecting to be home as the move out is "only temporary", so does that mean she expects to end the A? Or has she even talked with you about any of this?

It seems to me, that plan B will help you. Don't expect it to affect your W at all. Once she is gone to her own place OM will have free reign in her life for awhile and she will NOT miss you. You need to realize this is NOT about WS missing you, but you preserving something you will need if and when the A ends. It is equivalent of "keeping your powder dry" while crossing the river.

You may get to the other side where you intend to be or you may be swept down stream, but you need to keep the powder dry as long as you can. So make sure you go into this with the no expectations other than you will NOT be bothered by her inconsideration and having OM in your face via her contact with him. Any other expectations are really not warrented.

This is really tough stuff LS as you well know. Finally,expect to go through withdrawal from your W when you go into Plan B. It is normal for the same reason a WS goes into withdrawal from an OP. It is normal, it is a pain, but you will get through it in a few weeks and then you will feel more comfortable. That does NOT mean you will like plan B status, but it is your best chance for waiting out the A.

OR, you just might decide to say the "to heck with it" and move on. It will be your call either way.

Hang in there, you are doing well.

JL

Thanks JL. Another dose of reality. Me going through withdrawal. I think I feel that today as my heart has been in my shoes.

I just got off the phone with her. I am now faced with helping more than I want to. I want to show caring and support. WW asked me to go with her to "look" at the choices for her apartment. I felt I should to show that I am here for her. I told her "it looks like you've made your decision" and WW said "I'm still so confused". Talking about going with her to "approve" of WW's "love shack" almost made me fall off the edge of where I was standing. I remembered all the advice and expressed nothing but caring and absolutely no LB's. Please tell me I'm on track with this as my withdrawal symptoms may have already started.

The positive side is that I now have an extra week to prepare my Plan B letter, toss it here and let the experienced ones take a look at it. Not too mention the separation agreement. WW still talks about being able to come and go at will and the "love shack" is only 1.5 miles away. WW mentioned that "although you don't want to hear this and may want me further away". I told her "I would rather her be close so that when she decided to have NC with OM and wanted to start working on our M, you don't have far to go".

JL...to answer one of your questions, when directly asked about ending the A or NC, it's a solid "I'm not ready to do that now" or "I'm so confused, more confused than when my mother died". I'm taking that as positive Plan A feedback that at least I may be shining a little light from the lighthouse. But then again, some wise MBr's told be early on "don't believe a single thing WW says and only 50% of what I see".

LS,

Well, I don't think you should believe her. I think you should help her, make a "good" selection. Make sure she can afford it, check on the deposits, and in short do your best to set her up well and protect her as you would IF you loved her. Since you do love her, this is what you should do.

Remember Plan B starts with the letter and the letter is like your actions of helping her, it is your love letter to her. It is an "I love you, I am waiting for you, but I cannot help you now, you have to do this now." sort of letter.

So your actions will be consistent. She will try and contact you, if you have children set up a third party to deal with that. If there are other issues, set up a third party to deal with that.

In a way she is asking for your approval to move by asking you to help her. You can while in plan A state how you feel about her moving and fear the presence of OM in her life once she moves. That is NOT an LB. That is setting boundaries. That way she knows you are willing to help, but you are terribly hurt by her leaving you and by the presence of OM in her life. He will be in her life when she leaves but she needs to know you are not naive enough to believe that this separation is for her to get it together. It is not. If she realizes you know this, then the plan B letter will make more sense to her.

It is still going to be hard, but it seems to be necessary.

God Bless,

JL

lostsailor, I agree 100% with the others about Plan B, I think it is your very best bet.

However, I would not help her find an apartment, that is beyond that pale. Don't allow her to make you into a "buddy" or ramrod you into a forced acceptance of her moving.

Tell her no thanks, but if she is moving she can find her own digs on her own.

I myself could never Plan A-assist -the BS with any activity that falls well within what I consider to be anti-marriage behavior.

In my opinion, to assist her in her apartment hunting is dishonest on your part, in the sense that it goes counter to your integrity.

To me, it is like going shopping with the addict for their drug.

I would decline and say, "Sorry. that is something entirely too painful for me to help you do. You'll have to do this yourself without my help."

And then .... your Plan B letter will make more sense to her (if she has the capacity for sense right now?) If you help her pick out her appartment, THEN plan B her ... it will appear that your assisted her in doing the very thing you are now Plan B-ing her about.

Pep

Thanks ML and JL for helping me. Over the past month, I've taken all the advice and training and implemented it as best I could. I will ponder tonight the lengths to which I will go to continue Plan A (caring by helping find the right place or caring by not helping to find the right place). You guys have repeated this over and over - this isn't easy and it's not for the weak at heart. Either way, the experiences shared here and your continued support has saved me and I'm eternally grateful.

Now the separation agreement. My WW shutdown immediately when I discussed this. I was told that was a reaction to "reality setting in". I'm trying to figure out how to approach this one after WW decides to go. I'm hesitant about bringing it up before she departs because of the LB effect it will cause. The other side is legally (I pray it doesn't come to that), having it signed after WW leaves will prove abandonment of the home. This is another aspect that has my head spinning and my heart pounding.

Thank you all for your continued guidance and knowledge.....LS

Experienced MBr's.....I just had another thought about helping WW with what I now call the "love pad". I want to show her concern and caring and provide the light to return, but am I setting myself up for future pain? What I was thinking was that if I provide any type of "suggestion" to which place to go that sometime in the future I'll get blasted by WW "well, you helped me pick it out and now you want no contact with me" (post Plan B thinking here). Am I providing WW with ammo if I am remotely involved with her decision about where to go? So far I have been extremely careful to ensure WW understands everything we are discussing is her decision. I show concern/caring, but I don't provide input. Am I being overly cautious or just paranoid with what I'm learning is coming?

Thanks and God Bless.