To anyone....

Yesterday, I finally found the missing adultery phone. I called the number, and WH answered it.

Have gone to Plan B.

Told WH basically what is in Plan B letter. Told him he was free now to see and call OW. Sent the Plan B letter to him today.

Tonight, he left a message on home voice mail. He said that if he couldn't work this out with me that he was going to kill himself.

I don't know what to do. I feel like he may be serious. So, I left him a message on his work cell phone. Told him that I do love him, that we can work this out. But he has to permanently break it off with the OW by sending her a letter, and having someone else deliver her cell phones to her.

Is there anything else I can do? I really don't want to break Plan B in case he is manipulating me to break it.

Help!!!!!!!!!!! K

K

This is touchy and so I hesitate to even say anything, but he's probably bluffing. He is being puuled off the fence by your Plan B it seems. I would stay in Plan B and see how it plays out.

He already HAS manipulated you to break your Plan B already, K. He left a message that you should not have read and then you left him a message. If you don't stick to the Plan, he will continue to try to get his way (which of course is cake-eating as usual).

This is just my humble opinion. If you are SERIOUSLY worried about suicide, this is a matter for the police.

But, you have TOLD HIM in the letter how to work this out, K. So what can he not work out? You gave him the path.

How about calling him and leaving him the suicide hotline # and telling him that he should call them if he feels suicidal. If he wants to work it out with you, though, he needs to refer to the Plan B letter.

manipulations

chances are very good that he is threatening suicide because holding his breathe didn't work. On the off chance that he is serious, call the police and tell them he is threatening...but I really, really doubt it..his threat of suicide is conditional..do you see that? Give me what I want or I'll kill myself. [snorts derisively] I personally would be fighting the urge to tell him to be sure and get it right the first time, or at the very least to call OW and tell her [in your presence] that he will literally kill himself rather than give you up.

good luck with this one..do not allow him to pull you into his little drama, nothing is changed by this--Noodle

Have to say I like What's suggestion even better. If you think he is going to commit suicide, call the police, K.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>
He said that if he couldn't work this out with me that he was going to kill himself.

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then I guess he had better "work it out," huh?

There was a poster on MB one or two years ago whose WH did exactly that, committed suicide.

My friend committed suicide in March (he was depressed) -- this is a pain you don't want to go through if you can

If you really beleive he is unsafe (to himself) call the police .. the reason suicide is illegal is so that the cops can intervene.

I will post some links in a sec

way2

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

WH just called.. didn't have my glasses, and thought is was my daughter calling. I had left her a message to please call.

Now Plan B is broken. I told WH that I broke my word by talking to him.

I told him that killing himself wouldn't solve anything.

I told him He needs to send OW a NC letter, and have someone deliver her cell phones to her. There is no way we can work it out between us with her in the picture. Said I wasn't going to do this anymore.

He said she never has tried to contact him. I told him that I knew of at least 3 times that she contacted him. He wanted to know how I knew. I told him I have my ways. He asked if I has someone at his work spying on him, etc. I just said no, that I have my ways.

I told him with the message I left on the cell phone that I would pay for him to talk to Steve Harley.

He hasn't gotten the letter yet... I just sent it today.

While WH was talking, our daughter walked into his apartment.

I think he is sucking us all into his drama.

Back to Plan B for me. Dark. Midnight. No moon.

Stay strong in Plan B. My FWH threatened suicide alot- going to camp and get his gun, drive his truck off the road (he said that many times), and he grabbed the Aleve bottle and put a handful in his mouth... I tried to get it out at first (attention from me) but then said 'Fine, be stupid...' and walked into the living room. He later told me he spit them out into the garbage... I think they panic cause they want the best of both worlds and then threaten suicide to manipulate us into worrying about them. Call 911 if he does try or implies that he has done something/taken something.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>


He said she never has tried to contact him. I told him that I knew of at least 3 times that she contacted him. He wanted to know how I knew. I told him I have my ways. He asked if I has someone at his work spying on him, etc. I just said no, that I have my ways. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sigh........he is just trying to manipulate you into breaking your Plan B. This is all bullsh**. He isn't even close to honesty, K, so you better brace yourself for every trick in the book to get you to break Plan B.

See, the only way he can continue his affair is if he has you safely in place. If you won't play his game, he is forced to choose. And he won't choose OW, believe me. He wants both of you to meet his needs and you are threatening his little harem!

So don't back down and don't fall for it again. Next time he threatens suicide call the police or send your kids over there. That will make him look like an [censored] and he will knock it off.

Police are great for immediate intervention if a person is on the cusp of taking this horrible act of finality. If he meets a certain set of conditions they have the authority to take him into custody and present him to a mental health worker. In my jurisdiction it is usually an overworked emergency doctor that will spend about 1 min. with him and send him out the door. You pretty much have to come in with a rope around your neck to get committed for any length of time.

Some jurisdictions will allow a mental health warrant to be executed upon the person which has him committed for observation for at least 72 hours. It has to be sworn by a judge after enough evidence is presented and usually involves an affidavit from the family doctor.

Having said that, even if he is serious you are likely the least appropriate person to become involved with the immediate intervention. The suicide hotline (1-800-suicide I believe) will give you, a third party, appropriate advice as whom you should contact and what you should do. His pastor, close friend(s), doctor or parents may need to be told to assist in dealing with this delicate situation.

1-800-784-2433
US National Suicide Hotline (1-800-SUICIDE)

http://www.suicidal.com

http://my.webmd.com/hw/mental_health/hw111129.asp

Suicide Awareness Voices of Education (SAVE)
http://www.save.org/

Suicidal Thoughts or Threats
http://my.webmd.com/hw/mental_healt...d={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Men and Suicide
http://my.webmd.com/content/article...d={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Suspecting that someone you know has made suicide plans
http://my.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/sig45722.asp?navbar=hw111106

http://suicide.net/

SUICIDE PREVENTION Webring
http://e.webring.com/hub?ring=suic

Saving One Life at a Time webring
http://u.webring.com/hub?ring=solaat

Even if you feel that this is manipulation -- take it seriously. You don't have to break plan B, you can call the cops, one of his friends or family.

While women attempt suicide more, men complete suicide more.

If you treat this seriously and get the cops involved, if he's manipulating you then he will know your are not playing games.


The World Health Organization estimated in 1997 that each year, some 786,000 people die by suicide around the world.

This is the equivalent of one suicide every forty seconds, somewhere in the world. In the US, we record one suicide every 18 minutes.

http://www.suicidememorialwall.com/


way2

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Thanks everyone!

I have decided to call the police if he threatens suicide again.

Otherwise, I'm sticking to Plan B. He is very likely trying to manipulate me, even though he may not see it that way.

Today, after beginning Plan B, is the first day of real peace I've had in a long, long time.

I went to Yoga class after work, and it was the first time I did not have WH on my mind the whole time.

WH needs to get back to his roots... in other words, God. He used to be very much a child of God.

Now, he has gone against everything that he ever believed. Gone against the way we raised our children, gone against the way he was raised.

Plan B. Dark. Midnight. No moon.

Just a fence with splinters, and cake with no frosting.

I am soooooo totally resolved on this. K

K...

I am sooooo totally grinning from ear to ear about your resolve..and so very happy that you have had a day of peace. Get a few more days like this and you'll almost qualify as sane again, no? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Noodle....

TOTALLY! K

Dear K,

While all suicide threats s/b taken seriously, many are manipulative attempts and in this case by the WS. When the BS makes it, it could also be the same type of attempt. What is always is, is a cry for help. What kind of help is now critical. A helping hand may not be what is needed.

In my case, the WS gave the suicide call several times on both myself and the OW. I received a call one day after work, I was on my way home to pick up our son at the day care approx 15 mi from work. I was about 3 mi into the trip when my phone rang and the WS said something to the effect he was ending it for good. I sure wasn't thinking NC since there was no mention of that. To me it 'sounded like a suicide call'. I hung up, driving and shaking while dialing 911. I gave the dispatcher WS' cell#. The police found him and OW (she had just slipped out of Motel 6 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> trigger place!!!) and ran home. OW called me from her home yelling and threatening me. At the same time the police came on and gave me play by play of their call on the WS. It was like a bad soap opera. By the time I reached the babysitters house, I was in tears and shaking soo bad. They helped me calm down and deal with the police.

Well that scared the WS good. The OW was furious but who cares. LOL!!! I don't regret calling the police and the officer on the scene told me I did the right thing. Now I even spoke to the officer the next day to make sure I was not out of line or misusing their authority. I was told I was fine. The story the OW gives is that the police hated me and were telling them (can't figure this out since OW supposedly wasn't there and that gave me even more insight), per OW police said I was crazy for calling. Well from the police themselves, I was in the right.

What I learned from this was not to regret calling the police, even if it does not turn out t/b life threatening. It is their job to check things out. Also I learned how an OW tries to manipulate and create an aura of fear. I got her # good and was able to throw back her threats and ugly lies. Reverse babble starting forming way back then.

When the WS, xws then turned spouse recalls that time, I do not apologize for calling the police. I told him if he does a stupid stunt like that again, I have the police permission to call them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Hey Orchid!

Your soap opera is good - - full of drama!

My soap opera, it seems, is just getting started.

Trouble is, I love TV soap operas, and hate the real ones we all seem to have going on in our lives.

If WH leaves me a message like tonights' message again, I will immediately call 911.

Or, like our 5 year old grandson said (when he broke his arm a couple of months ago) when we were all sitting in the hospital waiting room to be seen "Somebody call 991!"

That really broke the tension!

I wouldn't know what to do or where to go with stuff like this. Thank God for all you wonderful MB's!

You soooooooooo totally ROCK!!!! K

k72172
Suicide... Dear K, it is one of those things we have absolutely no control over.

My H pulled this one too. Now denies it says I misinterpreted the situ, was merely cleaning weapon.... At the time he believe's he meant it - he didn't know how to stop his pain & torment. He wasn't sure to end his, mine, or both of us, & the guilt of orphans etc., or just diappear off the face of the earth to Bolivia or somewhere, he felt shame & guilt couldn't look me in the I - Of course in his opinion it was all my fault...I made him do it, I gave him no choice...

I called a professional hotline first, & some strong male friends removed the weapon, and left asap with the kids. The next day he threw it at me if I loved him & took him seriously I should have got the police & had him arressted then it would all be out in the open & the marraige could be justifiably ended!!! I did ring OW & naively asked her to help him if she really loved him, to come over he needed someone to talk to, she got angry & told me I must never ring her when she was with her husband & kids....

IC told me to step back, if someone (adult) wants to do it for real they simply will, no one can stop them, not even the best mental health experts unless they're straight jacketed, if they really want to they'll find a way and it IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBLITY. I simple had to not participate in his 'mind games', wish him well & let him know that doing that would add to the hurt, sadness inflicted by selfish acts, but in time I & the children would learn to live with as a distant & disturbing memory of which had no control of aside from having him committed.

This is horrible & I do hope anyone suffering with thoughts understands nothing is ever improved by suicide the pain is intensified.

" Today is the tomorrow I worried about yesterday & all (is not as bad as I thought) is well in my world"

I have always dismissed suicide as being a threat OR the actions of weaklings until I have experienced the messed up head that this affair has given me.

I directly contemplated suicide simply as a means of stopping the pain and fear, and didn't tell anyone of my intention to do so.

In the end I changed course and just wrecked my car. It scared me though and made me realise that no-one is exempt from dark thoughts under the wrong circumstances. I really don't want to dead, just out of pain. I took a different route to remove the pain from my life, rather than removing my life from the pain.

Call the police and let them and mental health professionals decide is he is calling for help or manipulating you.

A life isn't worth the risk of dismissal IMO.

God Bless you.

<small>[ August 17, 2004, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IC told me to step back, if someone (adult) wants to do it for real they simply will, no one can stop them, not even the best mental health experts unless they're straight jacketed, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With all respect to your IC Ktulu -- bull.

Several years ago I became clinically depressed over a long period of time -- a pain, that unless you've experience it there is no way to understand it. The fact that I am here, and am only here due to my husband arriving home early is proof that your IC's statement is not always the case.

I only saw one way out of my pain .. if you read some of those sites I linked to.. you'll see other suicide attempt survivors have the same story ...

My friend on the other hand was pretty much driven to his suicide by outside forces. His journal has shown that clearly, there did get to be a point when it was only a matter of time. However, if intervention had begun earlier and/or had that outside force been removed -- he probably would be here with us today.

Your IC's words also do nothing to nullify the pain those left behind experience, a pain that never goes away. If you don't believe me subscribe to the Suicide Survivors email list and ask. Very often a survivor of a suicide will go into counseling -- but even with all the help a survivor will always ask was their something more I could have done.

That question only seems to be able to be answered and become not another pain inducing statement when the survivor did everything they could, calling police, getting family memebers involved, getting to a mental hospital, etc. which includes not ignoring or putting off the statements of impending suicide. Ignoring those statements, not taking them as serious, only adds to the pain a survivor faces later on.

Also researchers believe that there is a group of people who contimplate suicide all their lives, but when they actually complete a suicide it may in the words of one researcher "be a surprise to them that they actually wake up dead" -- researchers think this because of these people there are no warning signs, no notes, they are successful, have made long range plans, etc, the only thing different is that they have never been able to see the good things in their life.

Those who lived through and attempt at suicide, either by physical intervention of a family member, police, etc. or divine intervention (God, angels, etc.) like what Bob Pure experienced will tell you that your ICs statement is only the case for those that have fallen so low that there is no reaching them ... generally though, they have attempted suicide before, or talked about it, and there is every chance of being turned around before they reach that point of no return.

There is only one pain worse (they say and I now agree) than being a BS, it's being the survivor of suicide, and some survivors don't make it.

way2

<small>[ August 17, 2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>