Hi!

My wife and I have been married 19 years we will have our 20th in December this year. I am now 50 and my wife 40. It hasn't been perfect but it wasn't all that bad either. Four years ago my wife's sister after years of suffering decided to separate from her partner. It was destructive and abusive relationship. I decided to help my sister-in-law through it all. In hindsight my efforts in terms of time and money to help affected my wife so much I blame that for what's happening to us now. My wife and I work at the same company although on different shifts to accommodate childcare concerns. We have a daughter who is now 18 and a son who is 14. Our shifts do overlap so we see each other occcasionally. About 6 months ago we made friends with a guy at work who was quite pleasand and shared some of my interests. He was okay and all 3 of us became friends. He was on the same shift as my wife so they became close friends. About 4 months ago I begin to notice that he was now more of her friend than mine but I thought well, they work together and he is okay. I should have read the signs then but I think although I could see that there was something there I refused to accept it. After all these things only happen to other people. I started getting suspicious though and started checking her cell phone. I could tell that she had been text messaging him a lot, but I still put it down to friendship. (Yeah what an idiot!) Finally about 3 weeks ago I saw a message on her phone from OM(other man?) saying "Love you!" That was when my whole world disappeared from under my feet. I couldn't confront her, because to be honest I was scared. A few days later I saw more messages on her phone all about love, etc. I had to confront her. I was at work and I rang her up and she broke down and cried and said she was confused and wanted to spend some time on her own. I readily agreed and suggested Canada but she said that was too far. She mentioned her sister who lives with her husband about 25 miles from us. I was all for it. But somehow she has abandoned that idea. We have been on holiday from work for the past couple of weeks which gave us time to sit down and discuss things. She has agreed to make another go at our marriage, and to try to break off the affair. We are also going to attend counselling (unfortunately the waiting list is 3 to 4 months!) In all our talks she is very monosyllabic. I want to talk and talk but she either just sits there and stare or lie with her back to me. Although we are not at work I know that she has seen the OM a few times during his breaks and I also know that only last night they went swimming at the local leisure centre. This will be the seconfd time they have gone swimming. Right now I am feeling very confused, hurt, betrayed and full of remorse for what I put her through during the 4 years that I devoted a lot of time for her sister. I have my wife how sorry I was for the past four years, but she insists that has nothing to do with her affair, because she didn't set out to have one because of anything I did in the past.
When we are in bed together at night she oulls away at my clumsy and pathetic attempts at cuddling. I feel she really finds me repulsive. Is there any hope? Should I carry on bearing this burden? I feel I must because in truth I still love her so much. Based on Dr Harley's concept of the Love Bank, my wife's account must be empty from all the hurt and pain, but I still truly love her. I am clinging to the hope that someday somehow this affair will stop as she promised to try. But honestly I see no conviction on her part to do so. She says to my face she will, but behind my back she still sees him and talks to him. Is she just trying to lull me into a false sense of security? Should I tell her that her efforts at deception are not working and that I know all about the secret meetings and messages? These hurt me the most, the promise to try to stop the affair when her actions tell a very different story. I know she and the OM discuss our problems, they must be laughing at me now thinking I beleive that she is not seeing him anymore while thet frolic in the pool. I have a chance to go on the same shift as them. That will surely stop them seeing each other at work, but that wouldn't stop the swimming and the text messages. I'm still willing to do it just to be there to act as a deterrent. I would lose £160 a month on shift allowances but what is money if I lose my wife? I am really confused and bewildered. I don't know whether I should confront the OM after all we were once friends, but my wife is reluctant for that to happen so I don't think I will. Everyday is pain and the nights are depressing and worst part is at dawn when I lay there holding my pillow while my wife probably dreams of the OM.
I'm sorry for being so long winded. But writing it out has been a therapeutic. I hope you guys bear with me and for those of you who has made it this far, thanks for listening.

DD - Sorry to hear of your pain.
Sounds to me like you have done nothing really bad, but she feels a little ignored and lonely. By helping her sister I would have thought she would have wanted to be part of this generous gesture and been grateful for you doing so. Having said that; You need to try really hard to get into Marriage Counselling ASAP. Ring around until you find someone, even if it costs a little more. This site has some suggestions for finding a good counsellor as well as offering a phone counselling service. Maybe the phone counselling can be an interim solution.
Have you spoken to the OM? If so have you asked him to stay away from your wife so that you can save your marriage?
Keep reading, keep posting, and don't give up as it sounds like youhave a real chance to save your M...

Hi B-Trayed,

Thanks for the quick comments. I needed someone out there. I will try to speed up the counselling but it looks grim at the moment. No I haven't spoken to the OM. Do you think I should? I'm just scared that it may precipitate things and force them to make the decision to go with each other and have my wife leave me. I know I'm very weak and emotional and couldn't see things objectively, but I am scared. Right now I am going to work, yes work with my wife and the OM, am I a glutton for hurt or what?????
Anyway thanks B-Trayed.

Desperatedan,

You and your W’s story is a classic example of how close opposite sex friendships (especially at work) can easily lead to dangerous emotional attachments or EA’s if the spouses are not aware of the dangers and don't exert the caution that might be necessary or create the boundaries to make their marriages safe… I’m sorry you became a victim of your W’s infidelity and the pain & fear you must endure because of this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was involved in an inappropriate friendship/EA and I remember how scared my H was after he discovered the inappropriateness of the friendship...

Nowadays, the truly fertile ground for dangerous emotional attachments outside marriages is the workplace. As more employees labor longer hours together and spending time together, close friendships increasingly are taken for granted. There is the new ''crisis of infidelity''. The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love. This is the essence of the new crisis of infidelity: friendships, work relationships and Internet liaisons have become the latest threat to marriages. Often it does not involve sexual thrill seekers, but ''good people,'' peers who are in good marriages.

In the book “Not Just Friends: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal ” Shirley Glass (author) discuss this in detail. This book provide much insight and I can highly recommend it to both you and your W. Please get hold of the book and also give it to your W to read. Shirley Glass' 25 years of research on ''extramarital attachments'' adds to a growing understanding of just what constitutes infidelity and why it happens.

There IS hope for you and your W and this marriage CAN heal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ August 17, 2004, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi Suzet,

Thanks a lot for the letter. I'm feeling quite bouyed by your support. I have asked to be put on the same shift as my wife and the OM and I will start that on the 6th of September. I told W the news and tried to sound out her reaction to this development. She said if it's what I want, it is okay with her. I spoke to her later on in the afternoon and she sounded really down and depressed. I wanted so much to go home and give her a hug but I know I would just be rejected. When I finally came home after work I checked her cell phones (she has two, one of which she thinks I do not know exists)and I tell you I am not proud of my actions but it has become almost a ritual, anyway for the first time in I don't know how long my wife did not text OM at all! I am not sure whether this means that they are finally making the break, but at this point in my life I'd take anything.
I will certainly get that book you recommended. I don't know if W will read it, at the moment I'm doing all the reading, but I hope in time she will too. Thanks a lot for taking time out to post a reply. You don't realise how precious these are.

Dear Desperatedan,

It’s a pleasure and I’m glad my post could be of some help & support to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It would be such a good thing if your W could read related books and/or the material on this website… I wish these type of information and books could be required reading before couples are allowed to marry for there would be less people unwittingly setting themselves up for affairs... Many times before I’ve wished that I knew all these things before I became involved in a similar situation myself. Now that I’m aware of this and have learned my lesson the hard way, I’m SO aware and curious (sometimes overly aware) of people around me (especially in my workplace) who’re ‘good friends’ and on ‘dangerous grounds’ without knowing or realising it… But sometimes the best way to learn is through own mistakes, it’s just sad that most of the time it happen at the cost of other innocent people and with a very high prize... Something that could have been avoided if people were aware of these things before marriage.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Thanks a lot Suzet. I will certainly update you on developments, I think I owe it to you guys, you are wonderful and warm people. I went to see a counsellor recommended by my parish priest, and when I met her this morning my inital reaction was guarded at best because I thought she going to go all religious with me. But she didn't, she said she was a Catholic but wouldn't push Catholic dogma on me. She was there first and foremost as a professional counsellor (she has a degree in psychology) who happens to be a Catholic. As we talked I realized that she was almost everything I wanted in a counsellor. I say almost because among the many things we discussed she also said ,"although I am in the business of saving marriages, I do not save marriages at any costs.." I want to save my marriage regardless of the cost to my integrity and self esteem, butI know that this is borne out of desperation. I really want my wife to talk to her but she said she will see tomorrow. She said to leave the counsellor's number at her bedside table and she'll see if she will talk to her. I am quite disappointed, but I hope she will do it. I told her that I cannot carry on like this any longer and neither she, the OM, or myself would have an expert and objective view of the situation and we can talk, discuss and dissect things till hell freezes over and we will never come near a solution. I told my wife that even if this will lead to a separation I am willing to take the risk as long as we invoke the intervention of a qualified and competent third party who can lead us through this minefield. I really hope and pray that she will pick up that phone tomorrow.
Sorry for the unwarranted length of this reply but I'm just letting off. Again thanks and god bless.

Desperatedan,

I’m glad you've found a good counselor and I really hope your W will go to the counselor as well... I will pray for this. The help, guidance & support of a professional third party will be so helpful at this stage. One of the reasons your W might be reluctant to set the first appointment with the counselor is because of feelings of shame, guilt, confusion etc. and fear to share these feelings. You can also encourage your W to read and post on these boards. She will get support and understanding from other recovered WS’s who can guide & support her through withdrawal from the OM and through the recovery process. It will help if she can share her feelings with other WS’s who know and understand what she’s going through.

Please read the posts I’ve send to another BH on this thread a few months ago. You might find it helpful.

I will keep an eye on this thread. Keep posting and update us on the developments.

Blessings and prayers to you, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Desperatedan,

I think it is important for your wife to get off of the same shift with the OM. You moving to her shift is not as important as her getting away from OM completely.

I made my FWW quit her job. It took several months to get it done, but it finally happened. We have been hurt substantially because of it, but it has saved our marriage so far. No Contact is crucial to breaking the addictions she feels for the OM. Read as much as you can. Here is a link full of articles to read:

http://www.surviving-infidelity-kit.com/

I hope this helps.

TooSoon

Hi Suzet and TooSoon,

I'm taking in all your advise.
Suzet I had a quick look at the link that you provided it looked very helpful indeed, however I have to wait till the weekend to have a really good read. Thanks.
TooSoon, Hi thanks for contributing. At this stage it is much easier for me to move shifts because I am the only one 100% willing to do something, anything to change things. W wouldn't change shifts and neither will OM. I know that the ideal solution would be what you suggested. But that wouldn't happen soon enough for me. So I am taking action now. I will have to act as a 24 hour bodyguard if need be, if only to hold W to her promise to "try" and break off the affair.
At the moment I am deriving some sort of comfort from the fact since Tuesday I don't think they have been exchanging cell phone text messages, something they used to do quite frequently, somethimes as much as 18 messages in one afternoon. I hope I'm not clutching at straws again, but if I am I'll clutch at anything. I left the counsellor's number with her but I don't think she has rang. I'll leave it with her and try not to push. God I still love her, but why?
Thanks a lot guys. By the way is there a glossary of abbreviations anywhere is this site? I'm sorry but there abbreviations that you guys use that I just couldn't figure out. e.g. FWW or BH etc. Thanks again I'm making it each day with all your help.

Desperate Dan,

Good morning! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FWW = Former Wayward Wife
BH = Betrayed Husband

Here is the link to all the other abbreviations:
Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes

Greetings,
Suzet

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi Suzet,

Thanks for link to abbreviations. I have got some good news. I have succeeded in getting W to see the counsellor and we're seeing her tomorrow afternoon. I honestly think that she is just going along with the idea since it would placate me and give our marriage some semblance of "being worked on" but from her reaction when I told her that the counsellor doesn't normally work on Saturdays but has made an exception for us and that we can se her as soon as tomorrow she just said "uhmmm" for okay or yes. I can feel the reluctance and lack of enthusiasm, but beggars cannot be choosers. At least she is coming along, she could have said no. A word of caution though. She could still pull out at the last minute. I pray that she would not. I will keep you posted on how our session went. Again thanks for everything.

Des.

Be prepared for your W to tell you what you want to hear. She will do whatever it takes to protect her Affair. She will continue to lie as needed so be prepared and don't trust her "fog" words.

This is a difficult time and it is one small step at a time. She will resist everything she can and she will tell you what you play you with full intentions of seeing the OM. You are not with the woman you always knew before the fantasy affair began. Be tough but put your pride aside. The MC is good because they will also tell her what she is doing is wrong.

You will also hear terrible things about your marriage you never thought happened. They rewrite the history of your past to justify their present actions. Just understand the game they play.

Good luck.

Toosoon

Hi Toosoon,

I have been reading a lot of the exchanges on this site and I'm learning a lot about infidelity and all its consequences. The "fog" concept is an eye opener and I certainly would take that into account when trying to see things from a different perspective. In fairness to W she has told me that this A has nothing to do with anything that happened between us in the past, and that she didn't set out to have this A as revenge of or even just as a result of our past. Just this morning I had a lengthy conversation with W's best friend who is in Canada. I had to ring her not to "expose" W's A to her but just to as her to have a talk with W as I know that if anybody can talk to W this friend can Canada can. I believe that W would benefit from some other source of advice other than OM. Anyway this friend told me that a few days ago she got a card from W saying that she is facing a very big crisis and one which only she (W) can resolve one way or the other. W also said that she knows I am hurting and she hates to see me hurting because she still loves me dearly. W didn't confide to her what the problem is but when I spoke to this Canadian friend she had an idea what the real problem was. In fact when we started talking I said I am just calling to ask her to call W and nothing else. As we talked she said "look, I'll tell you what I think is happening then it wouldn't come from you", which was pretty decent of her. She had her suspicions anyway since several months ago W asked OM to email her (this friend)allegedly because our computer was down and she thought why didn't W ask H (me) instead. Anyway she has agreed to ring W tomorrow and just see if she can get W to open up. I am not asking her to sway W my way (although I would be lying if I said that I wouldn't like that) but my primary aim is for W to just talk to somebody about the present "crisis".
I'm really praying that our session with the MC this afternoon would be the start of soemthing good. I harbour no illusions though, Iknow that there will be rough times ahead. I am most comforted by people like you guys who seem to know what I'm going through, and that dear friend from Canada who is not very well herself, she's on 8 hour dialysis everyday. What a lady! Please pray for me and W and also our Canadian friend. God bless to you all.

DesperateDan:

I know you are going through hell today and it is good to talk with your wife's friends to get them to talk with her.

My FWW was faced with a similar dalemna, which caused me to be in your shoes. She accidentally fell in love with a co-worker at her place of work. This sparked months of lying and deceit from my wife. She lied about everything to protect the love affair she had. Later, as she was looking back on the Affair, she said she had the same strong feelings that she had for me when her and I fell in love 20+ years ago. Her words to her Canadian Friend tells me your wife has likely fallen in love with her co-worker.

This means you have strong competition today with two men fighting for the love of your wife. You must compete to save your marriage and you must fight hard and dirty if necessary. You need to expose them to their supervisors, their bosses, and you must insist to move the OM to the 2nd shift or out of the company. You must call your wife's parents, realtives, or anyone who will put pressure on your wife. You must hit her on as many sides at the same time as you possibly can. You must accept the fact that she has probably convinced herself that the OM would be a better partner for her than you.

You must read and print out the statistics of affair relationships surviving, about 3% or so. You must get her to understand that affairs built on lies and deceit can never work. Read everything from Dr, Harley, Dr. Phil, Ask Peggy etc. Learn as much about infidelity as you can. Knowledge will help you. Read the articles on the link that I posted and tell her what she is up against. Have everyone that she is influenced by call her to try and talk some sence into her. Pressure from all sources splashes water on the players' faces forcing reality into their lives which is something they don't have in their fantasy relationship. Fight hard and dirty to save your marriage and wife.

Don't think you are protecting her by this exposure but you are protecting the affair by not exposing her. She will get mean and say hurtful things like I hate you and the marriage was terrible, etc. Fog talk so ignore it.

The bottom line is you must separate the two people to break the affair. That is the only real chance you have. My FWW fought me for several months to keep her job but it was to protect the feelgood relationship with her BF.
It was pressure from all sources and the threat of continued exposure that finally convinced her to quit her job. We lost her income and insurance and it really hurt our M but we have a chance to rebuild. You need to fight harder than you are today. Good luck.

Hi Toosoon,
Well I think either I am on a slippery slope to divorce or a better marriage. WS and I went to see the MC yesterday afternoon. The MC asked to speak to W alone so I waited outside and prayed. Half an hour or so later the MC called me in and said she has reached a compromise with W and she turned to W and said "now you tell H what you have agreed on doing..." I turned to W and expected her to say "I am ending the A..." but she said to me very calmly, "I would like to have sometime on my own." The MC then stepped in and said that during this time W will think things out for herself and find out what she really wants. And so that the decision is purely her own I am not to talk to her at all, and W confirmed that she will ask OM to stay away as well. She is thinking of taking the time off work so that our paths, me, OM and her, will not cross during this hiatus. I msut admit I didn't handle the news very well. I broke down and had to leave the room to regain my composure. When I came back I told the MC and W that I feel like I am in a competition with OM and one that I will not win. W said she is getting a lot of pressure from me and nothing from OM. OM is this nice saint who is just there to give her support and love, etc while I am there in her face "demanding" that we work on this marriage that she breaks off from OM and she see the MC. Of course OM is nice and passive, he's getting all the attention and affections from WS while I watch my whole life and family destroyed.
At this point I am totally lost. I am amazed I'm still standing. I am so hurt, devastated, and feel so lonely I just want to sleep for a hundred years.
Right now W's friend from Canada is on the phone with her. We have spoken about the whole thing and although she is W's friend she agrees with me that this "spending time on my own" thing is just running away. I hope that this friend can make W see the other side of this abyss.
Guys I need prayers. Please.

DesperateDan:

One of Dr. Harley's approach is not to let the WS leave the home to be alone to think. He claims, and I believe, the reason they want to be alone is to have full access to the Other Person without interferance from the Betrayed Spouse.

You must fight this approach and get a different MC, one who understands infifelity. Call the OM's GF and tell her everything. Inform her that your W is moving out to be closer to her BF. She is your only immediate hope to put pressure on the BF.

Dr. Harley says that both spouses need to be in the same home to work on the marriage, not away from each other. Do you have children with her? You must read up on Plan A and Plan B.

Don't give up hope. Plead with her to stay and stress to her that this OM is very immoral to have an affair with a marriad woman. Tell her if she is willing to do this today, he will do it tomorrow with another woman. Affairs cannot work when they are built on lying and deceit and once he is done using her, he will dump her.

I am sorry the MC gave her bad advice and would allow her within 30 minutes to walk away to be with the other guy. It is said there are so many bad MC in the business and they harm marriages all the time.

Read every bit of information from Dr, Harley from start to finish. He will explain step by step how everything will unfold. My prayers are with you and your marriage.

TooSoon

DesperateDan:

Read this article. Maybe you can get some help from it. I go to the point where I used this information with my FWW.

http://www.troubledwith.com/Web/gro...amp;sssct=Other%20Things%20to%20Consider

Read everything you can.

Toosoon - Great article on that link. Would you mind putting it on the loyal husband's thread?

Dan - I hope you read it too. And I agree with Dan - your counselor is buying BS from your wife. Whenever they want "space" - it is to continue the affair.

Hi Toosoon and believer,

First of all thanks for your collective advice. Toosoon I read your first post and my heart sank. You sound so positive that "spending-time-on-my-own" is a euphimism for "I-want-to-be-with-OM". That was my first reaction. But over time I have accepted my W's word that she will not contact or see OM. As I mentioned earlier she is taking time off work for a month to make the break complete. By trusting her word after being lied to and cheated on for almost 3 months I must be the biggest sucker around. But guys I have no choice. She will go if she wants to go. Toosoon I derived great comfort from that link to the article your provided. It made a lot of sense to me, and although when I agreed to the separation it wasn't an informed decision, now it is. Now it is my hope that she will indeed use the time to think what the consequences would be if she chooses to go with OM after this month long soul searching. I know that she loves our 2 kids dearly. The eldest is off to University in October and although she is old enough to handle a separation she wouldn't cope very well with a divorce. The youngest is 14 and he will be devastated if W does leave. He thinks the world of his Mum. I know I am using our kids but if there is anything that could bring my W back it is the kids. Maybe in her quietest moments W will decide that she has to make our marriage work for the kids and eventually for all of us. Inspite of this A my W is a good lady and that instinctive goodness will come through. I haven't been the perfect husband, and as I explained in my first posting I was utterly disrespectful and insensitive to my wife's needs in the past which I believe contributed greatly to this crisis. I must now give her the choice and that choice will have to be a free one. I certainly wouldn't want her back because I grovelled and she pitied me. I will survive, if only just. I know this sounds like a pep talk to myself but I think letting her go is the best strategy to get her back.
Thanks a lot guys. And I will keep you posted. Goodnight and God Bless you all.