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Hi TS and Suzet,
First of all let me thank TS for sharing the letter you sent to your MC. I just wish I could one day be able to write such a letter. TS I am truly happy for you, you came through. At this point in time W is very uncooperative to any moves towards moving shifts, let alone resigning. I believe that she is convinced that our marriage is over, and find any attempt at rebuilding it futile or useless. My task is first to make sure that OM is out of her life and then win her back. I believe you when you say that our M has no chance of surviving all the while W is under the spell of the OM. I will follow through with my threat of exposure if I discover that the A is still on. It saddens me greatly to do this but I understand it must be done, I have nothing to lose now. Today I drove the hundred miles to fetch our daughter from university. Tonight my daughter and I went to see "Man on Fire" with Denzel Washington, good movie based on a true story, but I couldn't escape my true story. I'm just very thankful that our daughter is here. I am driving her back on Sunday, W said she may come. I wish she would but I am not banking on it. Have to move on. With or without W. Sad but it's got to be done if everything fails. Dead man walking, that'll be me. Morbid, yes, inevitable, no. Pray for me always. God bless you both.
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Dan:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At this point in time W is very uncooperative to any moves towards moving shifts, let alone resigning. I believe that she is convinced that our marriage is over, and find any attempt at rebuilding it futile or useless. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is what you haven't accepted yet. Exposure brings a penalty, a check and balance, and/or a scrutiny to the WS for her immoral actions. The affair must then hold up to the wrath the exposure brings. The pain and penalty must be greater than the benefit the OM brings her. The OM's wife will bring the wrath of her God down on him causing disention with the OM and your wife. You are putting pressure on your wife at the same time. It becomes easier for the OM to stay away from your wife than put up with wrath from his wife.
You continue to resist the number one most important part of the possible ending of the affair. At this point, you and your family are not enough for wife to end the affair. When you expose the affair to the OM's wife, you then have a partner in assisting you in ending the affair.
Dan, your way has not worked, will not work, and won't work tomorrow. Her resistance to changing shifts tells me she has no intention of changing or stopping seeing her lover. Your refusal to expose your wife to your kids and to the OM is setting you further away from your wife and winning her back. You are losing the battle, you are losing your love for her, and you still refuse to listen to Dr. Harley's approach to ending the affair.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My task is first to make sure that OM is out of her life and then win her back. I believe you when you say that our M has no chance of surviving all the while W is under the spell of the OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't have it in you to do what you are saying. You and your family alone are not enough to stop the affair. At this point, outside pressure is absolutely necessary.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will follow through with my threat of exposure if I discover that the A is still on. It saddens me greatly to do this but I understand it must be done, I have nothing to lose now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry Dan, but you may not even be given the chance when it is too late.
TooSoon <small>[ October 08, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>
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Dan, I am very worried about the fact that you have spoken to WS, and the reason being, you believed WS may have been the reason this may have all started, now, you must not continue looking for hope by creating a possible further problem between your W and yourself, you must handle this on your own. If you feel it is time to expose this A then go ahead and expose it to OW, I don't think you should expose this to the kids at this time, since W hasn't really decided what she wants. I feel you continue to hurt yourself by holding on to time in hopes that W will come back. I believe there will be nothing changed unless you do proceed with exposure, after all, you have been exposed to this A, and you are hurting, so then, maybe they need to hurt and wake-up to reality. I say this to you again, do not bring WS into this Please. Dan, I believe you know who I am by now, yes your wifes Canadian friend, I find doing this very hard, yet my heart is breaking for the two of you. You know as I know, W will not make a true move in ending this unless you are true to yourself when you say to her you "love her" let her see the extent that you will through for her love.
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Dan:
Holdon is a friend of your wife and she knows her well enough to know what needs to be done. Some times "Tough Love" is the only thing that can be done in the most difficult times. Protect your children for now, if you think that is best. They may need to be the people to hold over her head later.
My wife and I talked again for a few hours last night. We are now able to accept the facts of her affair as something bad that happened in our lives without having to relive the horrible pain, although it still brings be discomfort. She continues to tell me how she fell in love with the OM accidentally as your wife probably did too. My W is completely out of the fog and can think clearly today. Her inner self esteem is very low. She said maybe a 4 on a 10 scale, at best. She says this affair has hurt her own self worth due to the destruction it has caused everyone around her.
I told her last night that I had forgiven her but she must now try and forgive herself. She said her OM was a talented person with many strong qualities, but she further admitted her OM was nothing but a selfish person who was willing to destroy a family to satisfy his own wants and needs. To me, that overrides any of his strong qualities and she even agreed to this comment.
Your wife and my wife are extremely guilty of their wrongdoings and our long term relationship with them, along with our family growing life experiences, allows them another chance. Your wife will learn later, and she will come to appreciate, how much you love her even knowing what you had to do to help remove her from this awful fog state she is in. My wife said to me last night that if it wasn't for my learned wisdom and for my fight to keep our family together and for the action that I had to take to help her, she believes we wouldn't be together today. She fully intended on leaving me for the OM. I told her by her staying, she is and has the ability to redeem herself as a wife and as a person and that her inner self worth will eventually come back in time.
I just ran into an old aquaintence of mine last week. He was married for over 33 years and his wife left him for another man who was much younger. Today, two weeks after their divorce was final, the other man has already left my friend's wife for someone else and his 55 yr old x-wife now sits home alone without her husband, family, or lover. I actually told him that maybe he needs to dig deep inside of himself, to throw away his pride, and to extend an olive branch to her to see what will happen to possibly allow them the chance to start over.
There are so many cases an so many unhappy endings. It makes you wonder how many cases could have been saved with implemented proper knowledge anc action.
Thanks Holdon for coming on the MB boards to help Dan. Dan, I feel a real connection to you and I do not want to hurt you and I only want the best for you and your family. I have no other motives.
God Bless,
TooSoon
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Hi holdon, TS and Suzet,
First of all let me address myself to holdon. I have only spoken to W's sister twice and that was enough. I realised what you have already realised and don't worry I won't. Sometimes I just get very erratic and "wobbly" I get into this deep valleys of depression I need to reach out. Holdon don't worry about this development, trust me on this one. For the benefit of TS and Suzet, holdon is referring to W's sister who I helped out for so long which caused friction in our M. I touched on this in my first ever posting. Now back to the present. I quite agree with holdon and TS, I am not prepared as yet to expose to my kids. They are very precious to us and I certainly do not want them to lose the innocence of youth and think ill of their mother. As I said in my previous post I haven't seen any evidence of contact between OM and W todate since W made that call to OM on Wednesday. Once I see evidence of it I will expose. That was my promise to W before she made that call. If she doesn't end it I will start exposure, and I will. This afternoon W lay in bed most of the time. I know I shouldn't rejoice over this, but her dark mood is a sign of the dreaded withdrawal. How I wish I could comfort her. holdon thanks for coming on board. W could really do with your company. I know how hard you have been working "behind the scenes" to help. Proof of that is you are the only person that W confides in. Thanks a million to you. TS thank you too for pushing when you sense me going down. Suzet thanks for the "other" perspective. Most of all I thank you all for being there. God Bless You All.
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Dan:
I am thrilled your wife is in bed and experiencing, maybe some depression. It is hard for you to deal with it but that is better than her packing her bags and moving out. Withdrawal is very tough for everyone.
My gut tells me that you have some difficult times ahead. I suspect she will make contact and you will have to take your planned action. Once she realizes what extent you will go to break the affair, you will be amazed at how quick they can back down. Just you threatening will not be enough though but I predict telling the OM's wife will be needed soon and that will be the message to your wife that you will do what it takes to end the affair. At that time, you have a partner in the OM's wife working against the affair at the same time.
Be prepared for her to tell you that she will leave you forever after you expose her like mine did. My wife told me she never hated anyone as bad as she hated me after I began the exposure process. When she says things of this nature, look at her the same way you would look at a heroin addict you are trying to dry out.
Be strong and stay committed to the fight. The woman you loved and married is clouded and confused, but she can come back. Someday she will thank you. I believe if you implement the MB plan, you will win this battle. You will be beaten down and bruised, but you will beat the evil forces that are trying to divide your family.
Good Luck for the rest of the weekend.
TooSoon
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Hey Dan, I now feel that things may be moving along for the two of you, although slow, but if you notice w is withdrawn and isolating herself, it is because she is trying very hard to forget OM, yet she is finding it very difficult. She has mentioned to me that OM is not contacting her, but it appears to me that this may be harder on wife to end then it is on OM. Maybe this is the end for OM and now she must realize this, as she said, it has been hard on her because she misses him. It may take more patience on your end at this time, since she appears to be grieving, and there is no doubt this is going to be double hard on you. I wrote to her and mentioned that it is a must that she not keep silent since she has been going on about feeling guilty and bad for you Dan, I asked her to try to clear her mind and think things out then have a heart to heart talk, this way she may be able to finally wake-up and not dwell only on feeling guilty. If she remains in that condition it will not help the both of you, she needs to open up.
All The Best Dan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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Hi TS and holdon,
I think it perverse for me to be happy seeing my W getting depressed, but I agree with TS that this is because she may be experiencing withdrawal. She was not very bad today we had a pleasant trip to take our daughter back to university. She was really down earlier in the day but I think the trip took her mind away from missing OM. I hope and pray that she will be strong and refrain from anymore contact. I will certainly keep you guys posted. Once again thanks all of you for being there, always.
God bless you
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Dan:
This obvious depression she is experiencing should only last for few days past her acceptance that the affair is really over, although your wife should be very moody for a few months past her first NC date.
My FWW remained disconnected from me for a few months past NC and she remained moody throughout the entire post NC ordeal. If your wife becomes very steady and in no apparent pain post NC, I would suspect she is getting her fix from the OM in some manner and I would be suspicious.
I have been suspecting the OM is not as committed as your wife. Her Canadian friend suggested that too. If there is the least bit of suspician she is still in contact, call the OM's wife immediately. That may be the straw that breaks the relationship for good. The OM has not left and there is no reason for your wife to leave without him taking the lead. You may win her back by default but that doesn't matter as long as you win. Once the fog lifts for her, you will begin to see the old wife that you married.
One day at a time, you will begin to trust her again. I know it is hard to imagine but there are days I hardly even think about it. If I do, it is just a passing thought. You actually accept her human frailty as what it is, human flaws. Even with this acceptance of human frailty, I have had to remind my wife a couple of times that she is not the sweet, innocent, and niave woman of before. We all make mistakes at all different levels and degrees and that allows us to forgive and forget.
Keep hanging in there. I hope I am not becoming overbearing with my stories, forced advice, and words.
I hope you have a good week ahead.
TooSoon <small>[ October 10, 2004, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>
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Dan, it’ is possible that the obvious depression your W currently experiencing might only last for a few days (as Toosoon have suggested) and I really hope this will be the case, but just be prepared that the opposite might happen and that your W might sank into a deep depression in stead. As I’ve said earlier on this thread, it might become necessary for your W to go to a good medical practitioner and be treated for depression if things get out of hand and the depression becomes too severe. Please check your W and took her to a doctor if necessary. Withdrawal is so severe for some people that they may become suicidal. Further, the length of withdrawal and individual reactions on withdrawal is not the same for everyone and depends on many different factors like personality, “sensitivity” level, unresolved personal issues etc. A good estimation of the duration/time of withdrawal might be the length of the A.
Because withdrawal is so difficult & intense for most WS's, many of them can't stick to NC and have the urgent need to contact the OP and get their "fix" in order to feel better - and this is why the BS must then help to put a stop to the A by exposing it. I hope your W will stick to NC, but just keep in mind there is a very strong chance that your W may try to contact OM again and then you must proceed with furthr action.
Dan, also remember the following I’ve posted to you. I will copy it here again:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For some time your W will see you as the ‘meanie’ who prevent her from having contact with the person she is in love with and she will resent you terribly for this. She will view you as the reason she can’t have any contact with her ‘lover’ and will probably blame you and accuse you of being uncaring, selfish & insensitive. I know this is very unfair towards you as the betrayed spouse and will be illogical & irrational bahaviour of your W, but this is all part of the process and "fog" and will pass too. Be prepared for this and know this will be normal behavior for a FWS, especailly during the beginning of withdrawal. Don’t pay too much attention to it or take it too personally.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After my EA ended, I developed severe depression and anxiety and experienced intense withdrawal symptoms for many months, but in my case, withdrawal was not the only reason for my depression: Psychiatric disorders (depression, OCD, anxiety) caused by chemical imbalances in the brain is a genetic disorder on both sides of my family and together with unresolved childhood issues (sexual abuse etc), I believe the EA and withdrawal from OM was just the catalyst that brought everything to the surface and forced me to receive IC an medical help. In a way I’m very thankful that things happened the way they do and I believe God’s hand played a big part in all of this and that He used this negative situation in my life and let something positive came out of it.
May God bless you with renewed strength for this week, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet <small>[ October 11, 2004, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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Hi Guys,
W is spending hours in bed sleeping or resting. Today is Monday and our day off. She got up early this morning and did what sounded like a thousand chores. Then fussed over our son. She did some shopping in town after dropping my son off at his school. One very significant thing W made obvious to me was when she left the house this morning she left her cell phone behind. The very cell phone that had been the source of so much pain, the cell phone that was the main tool in the A. I pointed this out to her and she just shrugged and said "I don't need it." Is this her way of telling me that it is really over? When she came back she cooked dinner and has been in bed since. I'm convinced this is part of withdrawal. How I wish I could reach out to her, but I wouldn't, not yet, now is the time to give her as much peace and quiet. Another encouraging development is that hse has made no attempt at moving back to our daughter's bedroom after the weekend. I was resigned to this, but she hasn't done so. Although this may be premature, let's see tonight. Over all I think this is a positive day. I just feel so much for W and just want to hug her and tell her it's going to be alright, as I know it will. TS never for one minute think that I take umbrage when you take a strong stance about anything especially exposure. I know that you only mean well. Suzet I take your advice about keeping an eye on W lest she falls into deep depression. I cannot force her to see our doctor but I certainly will keep an eye on her. I love her too much to let her slip into the type of depression you described. holdon, is this what I've been hoping for? Thanks a lot for your continued support and care for W. You are the only one she percieves to be on her side. Thanks you so much. I know how much you've got on your plate. God bless you all.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">W is spending hours in bed sleeping or resting. Today is Monday and our day off. She got up early this morning and did what sounded like a thousand chores. Then fussed over our son. She did some shopping in town after dropping my son off at his school. One very significant thing W made obvious to me was when she left the house this morning she left her cell phone behind. The very cell phone that had been the source of so much pain, the cell phone that was the main tool in the A. I pointed this out to her and she just shrugged and said "I don't need it." Is this her way of telling me that it is really over? When she came back she cooked dinner and has been in bed since. I'm convinced this is part of withdrawal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, things sound positive and from what you’ve described, your W is definitely going through withdrawal. The cell phone incident is also a very good sign and I think you have reason the feel hopeful about this. This is a very hard time for your W, so just be prepared that she might slip up and contact OM again. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How I wish I could reach out to her, but I wouldn't, not yet, now is the time to give her as much peace and quiet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, nothing stops you from reaching out to your W and give her a hug… You don’t need to talk to her or invade her space by doing this, but a comforting & quiet hug from you with the words “I’m here for you” may just be the thing she needs right now…
God bless, Suzet
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Sorry - double post. <small>[ October 11, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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Hi Guys,
A very short update. It's almost bedtime. I don't know why but W has carted her stuff back to our daughter's bedroom. I guess she is not sleeping in our bedroom again. I was sure she was going to sleep in our bedroom because she had laid out tomorrow's clothes in our bathroom ready for her tomorrow morning. But somewhere between this afternoon and tonight something snapped in her to make her decide to once again get out of our bedroom. Well I live in hope. The more positive side is there has been no contact that I know of. The cell phone is inactive. Two steps forward one step backward, eh? Let's see what she does when our daughter comes home in a fortnight? holdon how are you doing?
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two steps forward one step backward, eh? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At this stage of the game, I would call that absolute progress. It could be worse!
Let your wife sleep in the other room as long as she needs too. This will help her sort things out, besides better home than in an apartment. She will continue to think about losing the OM but that will eventually turn to her thoughts to her children and family. And yes Dan, you are part of the family package. My wife took over the living room couch until she quit sulking. After 4 or 5 days, I believe, I told her it was alright with me if she came back to our bed. I assured her I was not interested in sex with her anyway, so she finally got back into our bed.
Day by Day and one step at a time and you will succeed. The mountain is high and the climb is very rugged but you are up for the task of the climb. Keep us posted with your progress.
TooSoon
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Hi TS,
I don't think this will be a 4 to 5 day thing with W. She can be very stubborn and I reckon her pride would not let be seen as crawling back. I could almost hear you say "then swallow your pride and ask her to move back in" TS I surely will but not yet. Like you said (and thanks for putting quite a positive spin on the state of affairs,no pun intended) I should be glad she is still at home and not in some apartment or worse still at some apartment with OM! When I do so I'd use your words, I'm not interested in sex anyway, and believe you me that is the last thing on my mind. TS thanks once again for being there. God bless you and your family.
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Dan:
I know your pride has been forced to be put aside like mine has been to allow us to rebuild our marriages. There is a time that you will want to extend the olive branch to your wife, but I agree, today is too soon and she wouldn't accept it anyway. If your daughter is coming home next weekend, your wife will move back into your bedroom and maybe she will stay there after your daughter goes back to school.
After DD, I went out of my way to be a good domestic husband to impress upon my wife my sincere effort to keep her home. I painted the bulk of the interior of the house. I bought a new stove, refrigerator, and dishwasher for the house. I fixed neglected shelving and other things. I bought flowers and brought food home to prevent her from having to cook. I told her I was going to make the house nicer rather she stayed or not and if she didn't stay, someone else may enjoy the house. I worked hard to prove my worth and I played a lot of mental games in my desperate quest to save my marriage. I was dying on the inside filled with daily pain and torment everyday. I couldn't sleep, I lost close to 30 lbs, I drank wine excessively to get through the evenings, and I cried constantly. I was a broken person. I know the pain you are going through. Looking back, none of the stuff mattered to my wife as long as she continued working with the OM. She was not able to reconnect with me as long as I was being compared daily with the perfect OM. It was only after she quit her job and truly implemented NC, did the real change take place. If you would have met my wife during her ordeal and then met her again today, there is a complete difference between night and day. It is like the devil completely controlled her past actions and has since flown out of her body allowing her to be her normal self again. Our wives are not serial cheaters but wives and moms (mums) who followed their emotions and made a bad mistake. With this knowledge, we cannot throw away 20 some years of marriage for a bad period in a person's life.
Keep being patient and continue with your controlled tolerance.
TooSoon <small>[ October 12, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>
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Interesting conversation I had with my wife tonight. She said she has been feeling low lately (PMS Time) and has been having thoughts of the OM. She said the thoughts are not enough for her to want to act on them, but the thoughts are still there she said.
She even said she asked herself the questions, "do I want to have another double life, walk away from her husband completely, or stay with the family like she knows she is supposed to. She previously promised to never have another double life, like in the past. I made her agree that if she chose to renew the relationship with the OM, to simply tell me and I will help her pack her bags so she can move on or with him.
Suzet stated in the past that the feelings of the OP lasts for a couple of years. My wife said now that she is post PMS, the feelings have subsided. At least she is telling me openly how she is feeling. I asked her if she had any form of contact with the OM and she said absolutely not. She says she fears that someday she will run into the OM in a store, restaurant, or see him driving down the street. She says she further fears that it could rekindle past feelings and she knows she is better off never seeing him again. She then said, we are getting older and we could die at anytime and she knows staying with the family is the right thing to do.
I reminded her that her feelings are from an unrealistic fantasy relationship and she needs to remind herself that adding reality to the past fling would have killed it anyway. She said the relationship did not have real closure because it ended too abrubtly. I reminded her that if the affair would have progressed too far, I may have never taken her back. I then said, without me allowing her to stay, she would not be able to redeem herself with God and the family. She agreed and told me not to worry because she dealt with her feelings and felt like her own feelings was a form of punishment for her past actions.
I think I will keep my handle for some time.
TooSoonToBeComfortable <small>[ October 12, 2004, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Suzet stated in the past that the feelings of the OP lasts for a couple of years.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toosoon, my feelings for OM lasted for a couple of months (18 months to be exact). I think the above was a typing error! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> However, in cases where an A was extremely intense or went on for years, I believe it might take years for feelings to completely subside as well. As I’ve said to Dan earlier, a good estimation of the time of withdrawal can be the length of the A.
In my case withdrawal & subsiding of feelings took so long because I was friends with OM long (more than 2 years) before it became inappropriate and developed to beginning of EA. For a long time he was part of my circle of close friends at work (support system) who regularly supported and encouraged me in my work, studies etc. and vica versa and this was the part I really start to miss after all contact ended. I didn’t miss the EA and inappropriate part of the friendship which were wrong, sinfull and so damaging to me and my H, no, I missed the friendship and his moral support. Since OM was 15 years older than me, he also felt like the emotionally supportive “father figure” I never had and apart from the romantic feelings I developed for him, I genuinely start to care for OM as a dear friend as well long before feelings became inapproriate. While I know the romantic feelings were just fantasy, not real and all in my head, I however know the feelings of care & concern I developed for him were real. This is why I feel so strongly about the fact that I can’t have contact or can’t be friends with OM ever again... Once feelings have crossed boundaries from friendship into romantic love, there is NO turning back and there will always be a chance that feelings might get rekindled. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>She says she fears that someday she will run into the OM in a store, restaurant, or see him driving down the street. She says she further fears that it could rekindle past feelings and she knows she is better off never seeing him again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toosoon, I know exactly what your W means and how she feels. I had these same fears in the past and I’m still very careful when I accidentally bump into OM although I don’t experience the severe anxiety when this happens anymore. However, I still feel slightly anxious and uncomfortable when I see him and as long as I work at the same company, I will always be on ‘guard’.
Greetings, Suzet <small>[ October 13, 2004, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Dan,
I don’t have much to add on this stage, but I just want to send the following short note to you:
Although things are currently not good between you and your W (understandably so), the most important thing is that there is NC between your W and OM. I hope it will stay like this and as long as there is NC between them, there is a 99,99999% chance that things will progress and get better. It will take time and patience though, this is not an easy path, but at least things are on the right track! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Blessings, Suzet
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