Morning Shmaley,

Glad you are feeling better. Us MBers don't like to see a BS in pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Keep up with your running, it will do your body and mind good. Your heart will benefit also....now if I could just do as I say on this exercise stuff..... Oh yea, I have been lifting boxes and hauling them into the house.... so that may count for a little exercise. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As for the exposure if it is as you say, realize it may not have the expected effect on your W. It may help others know where she is at and in turn be around to help her later when the WS is accepable to their genuine help. Don't expect for the best. Set your expectations lower so any disappointment will not hurt tooo much.

IMHO, I would do as you outlined. Remember, that is just my opinion.

take care,
L.

It's 9am here on the 5th..... U haven't responded yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No vent? No post? How R U doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

It's been thirteen days since the last letter that I gave WW. I am thinking that it is time for another one. Do you still think that it is too soon to talk about concepts? Jennifer had encouraged me to do so and "plant seeds" with them (1 a week). But as much as you follow my story you have a better temperature of the situation.

Given that WW has been inquisitive about me and what I have been doing (baking, pulling back, noticing body changes)what do you think? I am very bias because I feel best when I am doing nice things for WW. Her B-day is on next Monday. I have got her a hard to find violin CD, a unique music book, and a DVD on great players of the 20th century. I think that is sufficient. Jennifer C. encouraged me to get something unique and personal. But nothing extravagant.

I am going back to the SexT today. 2nd visit. Then I'll be going to work out. Let me know what you think about the letter.

C.

Simulpost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am doing fine. Hope you see my post before tomorrow. Wow, your 5hrs back from me. Have a great day!

C.

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Seeing that the exposure c/b coming soon and if you spin her head with R talk....it just might be too much too soon. Having her see you as a desireable hunk who also has great cooking skills, may be something she needs dangled in front of her a few more times. It may do the same as the R talk (getting her to miss you) without doing the R talk.

Now note this may prompt her to make you feel sorry for her since she isn't improving at the same rate..... don't fall for that ploy and demean yourself. If she says you are improving and she isn't, let her know you are improving and have every intention to keep on doing so. Welcome her to do the same and then stop.

If she questions you permanent changes as only temporary, let her know that you also question her changes (but don't go into detail about it). Generalities put the WS in a wondering stage of confusion which is where these are less likely to be attacking the BS. WS are weak in this state.

When is your next appointment with Jennifer?

Already did some job search stuff, now gotta go take the boys to the batting cage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

I don't have an appt scheduled with Jennifer C. right now. She told me before my first appt. to call her back in a month. I called back in two weeks. That was two weeks ago. I don't see the need for another appt right now as nothing much has happened since I last talked to her. I just have very little contact with WW. Once to twice a week was recommended and I feel that is sufficient right now. Besides the way things are going WW makes the contact most of the time. That is good right?

I'll hold off on the R talk in the letter then. Maybe I'll just send her one with small talk. It will get posted before I send it. I'll try to put it together tonight after my workout. Meanwhile I will work closely with RM to make sure the exposures go smoothly.

Wednesday night is my night to cook something new! I am going to do Strawberry Shortcake this time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Got any pointers? I think that I will invite some people over to try it. But probably after it is finished. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Any bites on the jobs yet? Do you have 2 boys playing baseball? What are your stats anyways???

C.

Tell me know what you think. I kept it pretty light but still personal.

WW,


I&#8217;ve been really busy this last week. There is a lot of stuff going on between work and home. At home most of my time is spent reading and exercising. I have really been enjoying the exercise. There is always something to fix here at home. You know how it is. My next project is the leak under the dishwasher. If I take that dishwasher out I am probably going to put a new one back in. That dishwasher is so old, ugly, and loud. It really needs to go.

Wednesday night is my cooking night. I&#8217;m going to make Strawberry Shortcake this week. I&#8217;ve also been making a broccoli omelet on Saturday and Sunday mornings that is real good! "Friend" came down last weekend for the Bikes Blues and BBQ thing and I cooked for him. RM and I made an apple and cinnamon noodle kugel dish on Saturday night that was really good.

"Company" just had a QC inspection by one of our big customers. It was kind of stressful but I did well. We have a bunch of work now and everything thing is looking a little better. We&#8217;re still having problems with our customer that is reorganizing. But there is not a lot that we can do about it that we haven&#8217;t already done. Overall, I am growing more and more dissatisfied with my job there. "Uncle#2" has really shown his true colors this time. He was actually ready to fold the whole company up when we were having problems with the bank! Dad and "Uncle#1" had to override him. He is so very selfish.

I guess it&#8217;s officially your birthday week! Ha ha. Tell me again is your birthday on the 9th or the 11th. I&#8217;m staying 29 this year. I&#8217;ve decided 23 doesn&#8217;t fit me but 29 will work for the next few years. At any rate I hope your have a happy birthday.


BS

C.

C,

Sounds light but needs a little tweak? Remember these are just my opinions:

Hi W,

Wanted to drop you a line or 2. I've been really busy this last week. There is a lot of stuff going on between work and home. At home most of my time is spent reading,[b] exercising and fixing up stuff around the house.

Wednesday night is my cooking night. Turning out a few more recipes up on this weeks menu and sharing it with a few friends. So far my cooking endeavors are getting raves from 'the food critics'.

Work has been going up and down. Seems like there are 'some personalities' bent on giving everyone else a bad time. Sure is hard to deal with such bad attitudes.

I guess it's officially your birthday week! Ha Ha. Have a fun week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Luv,
c.

Well those are my thoughts (the ones in bold).

Remember this is just 1 opinion. Do what you find is best for you.

take care,
L.

In general are you just saying that I should be a little more vague about the things that I am doing? Maybe to keep her wondering.

I haven't talked to WW in 6days now I think it is probably time for a call. Jennifer C. has said 1 to 2 a week for contact. I just haven't really felt like calling her because I will take it hard if she is short with me. Maybe I could call her and then be kind of be short with her before she could be short with me. Kind of out short her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sounds funny but I might just try it. Any thoughts Orchid?

C.

haven't talked to WW in 6days now I think it is probably time for a call. Jennifer C. has said 1 to 2 a week for contact.


Shmaley -

Why don't you go two weeks without calling, just to see what happens. She might be so relieved you finally called after two weeks of not hearing from you, that she just might be nice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shmaley:
<strong> ... I just haven't really felt like calling her because I will take it hard if she is short with me. Maybe I could call her and then be kind of be short with her before she could be short with me. Kind of out short her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sounds funny but I might just try it. Any thoughts Orchid?

C. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well in my 'short' opinion ..... I'd say yes.... keep her wondering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW, great pix. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Remember, for a woman absence makes the heart grow fonder. Making her wonder just a little bit is a good thing!

I would go for the two weeks but I am going to a concert that she is in this Sunday. That's 9 days though!

What do you guys think? Should I take her anything nice? It is her birthday on Monday. She has always been very high maintenance around her birthday. She is an only child that has always been the center of attention. Or should I just give her the presents I have got for her? And what about her birthday on Monday. I am guessing at least a call. I am all ears.

Still haven't talked to her. However, I did hear from our hairdresser today. WW went in to get her hair done this afternoon and talked with our friend. When I called to set up an appointment she told me that WW didn't say much about the OM. I had previously exposed to this person because she is a good friend so she knows everything. WW just told her that he lived in "big city". She also told her that I had been real busy lately. At least I got as much or more air time as the A did. I am going in tomorrow to get a cut and maybe I will hear more. I think WW is wondering a bit.

Oh, this is a good one too. I called IL's last night for some cooking advice and spoke with MIL for just a bit. She said that WW had commented on the rolls that I had made and complained that I didn't give her one. Ha ...hahaha. WS's don't get cinnamon and sugar! Only tough love and Plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW I like that picture too. It was at our friends wedding party a couple of years ago. WW and I played for their wedding. Meditation by Thies and The Lords Prayer transcribed by me. Guitar and Violin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

See you guys tomorrow.

C.

Hi Shmaley,

IMHO, save the biggie or heartfelt presents for your W not the WS. Maybe she will see that her actions are stopping others from the attention that only belongs to a good spouse, not a WS.

Enjoy the concert for what it is. If there is any squirming, let it be her not you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have been enjoying reading some of your posts to others. You are providing good support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep up the good work.

take care,
L.

Thanks for the complements Orchid. And thank you Weaver for your comments.

I am feeling a little torn this morning. I hear what you guys are saying about letting her wonder. But I am just starting to worry a little. If the next time I talk to her she asks why I haven't called her then I will just say "Why, is everything ok?" or "Did you need to talk to me?" I'll just act like I hadn't even realized how long it has been. That part I am ok with.

But what about Plan A. Jennifer said to plant seeds and I can't without contact. Or can I? It concerns me that a distance is developing. I feel it anyways. Maybe just in my head. It's starting to feel like a quasi Plan B. If my Plan A is so close to Plan B then it will lessen the effect. Right?

Straighten me out please.

C.

After thoughts.

I have been obsessing all day and I think I know why. This always happens when I don't feel that I have a clear plan of action. Or when WW does something crappy.

Too much thinking and not enough action makes me go crazy. Jennifer C. said to write a letter a week and make contact 1-2 even 3 times a week. I have not done that. I see the wisdom in both yours and Weavers posts and feel like they are also the right thing to do. In the end, either plan could have the desired effect or be disasterous. It's just the mulling around that is killing me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

C.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Dear Shamely,

Anticipation, frustration and anxiety are all killers.....

You have your recommendations and assignments along with the facts, execute. Don't kill, implement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You say that you get indecisive when you don't have a plan or WS gets crappy. Ok now which part of this problem can you control? For the part you can't, what will do you for you? To a certain extent, you even have control over how you allow her actions to affect you.

You are a maturing well.... keep it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Found out WW is going to OM's town again in a couple of weeks. I have transcended anger at this point. I don't know if I hate her or not. Tried to call her she didn't answer but she was on the other line. I left a message that said "I need you to call me." No bye nothing. I am over the edge right now. I am really sick of this stuff. I am better than her and she is a pathetic loser. Why would I want to be married to someone like that? A loser. To stupid to even reach up for a hand to help her out of the trash she is sleeping in and eating. Awful person. What a hateful awful person. REALLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME! SHE SUCKS. I keep saying to myself that I shouldn't post this. Maybe I will delete it before I do. But maybe not. I've seen me do it before. I am so tired and angry now I just want to sleep. You know I could have someone a lot better. Now that's the taker talking there.

C.

I'm doing a little better this morning.

I tried to call WW last night. She would not pick up and I could tell that she was on the other line. So I checked the phone records this morning and she was talking to OM. This isn't a surprise. I hope it made her feel like DIRT when I called. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know that I said I wasn't going to check the phone records anymore but I already felt like crap so why the heck not?!!?

She never called back last night. She always calls me back. It might have been the saddness in my voice or just guilt keeping her from calling me. At any rate, I am going to call her this morning and try to get her to come over for breakfast. I will simply invite her. If she doesn't want to come it's her loss. I cook good!

I went ahead and wrote that letter that I posted last. It will get mailed today. I now pretty firmly believe that I need to stay in closer contact with her. Out of sight out of mind. She has a real hard time seeing me because it makes her think. When she goes to OM's town in a couple of weeks do I want her telling herself BS never calls me and being able to emotionally detach because we havent't had enough contact? No. I want her to see my face everytime that she sees or hears something that would even remotely remind her of me. I want her to not be able to escape my image. She will suffer if she has to think about me. She might also ask herself why.

Why do I get so bad like this guys??? I mean it's uncontrollable grief. If I knew what my triggers were I could at least TRY to avoid them.

Well, I am going to stick with the Jennifer C. guidelines for contact. And I am going to write her a letter a week too. I hope you guys will evaluate them for red flags. Most will have concepts but some will be like the one I just wrote. I think that WW is trying to push me out of her mind and if I am not around then it will become a whole lot easier. I am not going to make this easy on her. She is going to have to walk through the fire to get rid of me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shmaley:
<strong> ....Why do I get so bad like this guys??? I mean it's uncontrollable grief. If I knew what my triggers were I could at least TRY to avoid them.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? Because you are a BS and getting tired of the role. Can't say I blame you. U C how I get riled up in my postings, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I used to be a real nice person. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Now I am a 'reverse babble expert.' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You need to identify at least some of your triggers. You are in the midst of the mess and in order for you to do your personal recovery, you need to step out of it, identify your triggers and boundaries. Then implement your boundaries.

JMHO,
L.

WW came over this morning and I fixed her a broccoli omelet. She liked it a lot. We got to set down at the table for the first time in 2 months and eat together. She also got the last cinnamon roll. She liked that a lot also. Everything went real well. Except of course she is still going to "big city" for a concert series.

I went to the symphony concert this afternoon. It was real nice. Afterwards, I walked her to her car and she drove me to mine. When we got there I asked her if she could talk for a little while. She was in a hurry but said it was ok. We talked about how she feels. I asked her where she was at. She said pretty much the same as before. I asked her where that was. She wasn't being real forthcoming. Eventually, she tried to explain how she felt. She couldn't be very specific but I got the point. She basically feels confused and hurts when she sees me or talks about me. I offered an interpetation at her agreement. I told her that she felt this way because her actions were not reflecting the values that she has lived by all of her life. I told her this was called cognitive dissonance and that basically her heart and mind were not in sync. She looked like a light bulb came on for a moment and she agreed.

Next, I talked about Love. I told her that I was not under the illusion that she was in love with me right now. But that it would get better as we built a new M. I told her that I have learned that love is much more than I had ever thought it was before. Love is not best expressed in words. In fact, I told her that words were probably the lowest form of love. True Love I explained, is expressed through actions not words. With that one I single handedly shot down the last 2 mo of her and OM's phone A garbage and didn't even mention him. I just hope she holds that one up to the light.

She said that she had missed me but that she felt like if we got back together right now that things would be good for a while then they would go back to the same. I think that this is largely an excuse to buy more A time. I asked her what her definition of "getting back together" was. Basically, it is moving back in. I told her that I agreed that it would be a bad idea right now. There was no reason to do it right now. I told her that it was not my goal. Then I told her that my goal was to work on our new M.

We also talked about God a bit. I told her that I have become much closer to God and that He has helped me because I have asked Him to. She asked for examples I gave them. Then I told her that this was one of the things that we had failed at with our marriage. We had not included God. WW said that she had tried. I agreed. I told her that I had been very proud that she studied the Bible every night for some time. I also told her that she had done a better job than I had at this. I told her that I could feel the presence of the Lord leave me when I did not do what I knew was right. But when I Honestly try to do what I feel He believes is the right thing He gives me strength. Then, I told her that this is why it hurts me so deeply when she makes trips to "bigcity". Because she knows it is not the right thing.

Overall, I felt like it was a really good talk. She had to quit looking at me at one point because it was making her start to cry. I told her that I didn't want her to cry and tried to help her through it so that she could keep her composure. At one point I had told her that my saddest times are when I imagine her hurting or being upset. This meeting was good because she wasn't so negative. She also wasn't real positive but she seems to have lost her pointedness. She knows that I want her to feel good and tries to let me help her.

We arranged a time to meet so that I could give her B-day presents to her. When I got out of the car I leaned over to hug her and it seemed like she was offering her cheek. Maybe she was maybe she wasn't but I gave her a kiss none the less. She didn't freak out or anything and I smiled at her as I walked off to my car.

Well that's it. Tell me what you guys think.

BTW I got the bit about love by reading one of you old posts Orchid. You said that you realized that the kind of Love you wanted was defined by actions. I don't want any immataion Love either. It just doesn't taste the same. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Shmaley,

U done good. Real good. Quite proud of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

U took it to a higher level and survived. Even got the WS to see a moment of clarity and speak sanely to you. That's an accomplishment.

An even worth celebrating from our BS standpoint ya know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Well it's too late for Starbucks and I can't stop for a drink since I still have myself and little one to drive home (at my cousin's)...... so I will have a wine cooler for you when I get home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am sooo proud of how you communicated and handled yourself.

Keep up the good work. Steady steps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.