<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

Ok, so, are you 'ok' with his responses. Let's face it, you won't know the truth about his current actions, and you have to live with his explanations. The fact is on the table now, he has had a PA, so you at least can be at some 'peace' on that whole issue. Sometimes, it's just easier to know than to always wonder.

I think you have taken a monster first step, and it's good for you to wait a bit to see where the chips fall. Try not to react too quickly right now.

Now, for the flip side of this...his responses, I'm sure some other here will help you on this, but, he's lying his [censored] off. If caught doing something so simple as just cyber sexing, and honestly, I'm not trying to play that down, I personally experienced being betrayed by that, but it's pretty chump compared to meeting and experiencing in person. Regardless, men caught in simple cyber don't generally want out of a marriage, especially one who had a ons a few years back and has 'overcome' that mentally? What I'm saying here is you broke the egg shell, but the yolk is really sticky, and your husband is playing a dangerous game of lies and half-truths right now. You need to really mentally accept that he is gone right now, and prepare for that. That doesn't mean you can't plan a him, but, he is gonna try your love for all you've got.

Now, that is my pessimistic opinion. Hang in there.

Pem,

I have been away and havn't seen you posts for a while. I am the guy who told you to instal the eblaster.

Keep a close eye on it in the next day or so. If he was serious about his remorse he will discontinue contact. But if he was just telling you what he needed for WS damage control, the activity will pick up. He might tell them he needs to lay low for a while. Or make tell them he is going away or something that will give him some time to passify you. You were right for not giving up your source! It will be very valuable in the next few days/weeks.

I don't want to make it sound like he is for sure luing, but the chances are he is, and you need to know that and be prepared for it. The fog may be setting in on your WS.

I am proud of you for taking such a big important step.

Mugsy

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

Pemberley,

First, my strongest congratulations on standing up for both yourself and also your M.
Make No mistake that what you did was not easy or comfortable for anyone to do.
So give yourself a huge "HIGH 5" for the courage you exhibited today.

In addition, great job in coming here and wanting to find the tools to fix your M. That also shows guts (and some smarts as well).

Unfortunately, its not all "roses" in your world tonight.
Sorry but the others are MOST likely correct....in that your H is ONLY telling you what you WANT to hear.

Cause admit it: you'd love there to be NO new women and there to be only "fantasy" sex going on. Wouldn't that just be SO Much Easier to deal with and get over.
Well, of course it would. That's why YOU want so desperately for it to be true.
And why HE is so willing to Give that lie to you.
Its just easier on everyone to go to "fantasy land" and join in on the illusion of it all.

YOUR H is playing the cheater 101 second Rule to the tee.

(What's the first rule: DENY, Deny, deny....about everything)

Now the 2nd rule.
ONLY ADMIT to what the BS actually knows or can prove.
Only admit to what is already known (or at least strongly suspected). This rule is even more harmful (yet easier to believe) as it combines SOME truth into the lie.

Examples:
If they only know about phone calls ... then that's as far as it went. Talk.
If it only was online......then it was just cybersex.
If someone only saw us hug and kiss.....then that's as far as it ever went.
If BS knows that sex happened once.....then
the actual Time WS got caught was the First & ONLY time. Ect, ect,....
(I think you get the picture).

(ARe you also hearing "I swear" "I promise" and "That's it..That's everything..That's it, theres no more" from him Over and Over?) hmmmm

Now he was slick (I'll give him that much) and tried to through in the token Misdirection "admission".
How convenient that his "truthful" statement was about a woman Years ago (as this will NOT have any impact on his current "stable".)

And as far as him getting all the answers right about the Internet stuff, well he's smart enough to figure out where you got this info. and can figure out that you must know most "everything" he did on there.  So no surprise in his reaction about covering his a*s there either.

Fine, if its so innocent......let him pass a test.
Or better yet do it yourself.
(I know this won't be popular ..but anyway here it goes)

Get on the computer and you contact these women AS "him".
Ask when and where they would like to meet AGAIN. (say my W is going to be out on such and such a day or something).

You'll find out pretty quick from their responses IF they've ever actually met in person before.
If they say "hey this is just computer fun"....then all you have to deal with is cyber sex (which is still a huge problem in and of itself.....make no mistake about it).

However, if they respond with "heck yea..when and where" then you've got your answer and a bigger problem to deal with (not the A's but your H's lying and denial).

The reasons you NEED to know if their was actual sex or not are 3 fold. (at the minimum)
1). Smallest reason is just cause in your heart you need to know. Bottom line ..its a natural reaction to want to "just know". Otherwise your going to go insane running the "what if's" over and over in your head.

2). ONE of the larger reasons is that you need to KNOW if your at risk for STD's.
None of the diseases nowadays are anything to play with. Even the ones that don't kill you, are still with you for a life time. Are you at risk? I'd say yes...and you'd BETTER find out for sure.

3). The most important reason is too actually find out if he is still lying and deceiving you. This IS an issue and problem that WILL Destroy your M. (and your love for him) if not found out and then dealt with.
This you must find out...determine his "trustworthiness". Sex or NO sex.

And if you have a way to "test" and determine his truthfulness (which you do) ...well at this stage of the game, you darn well better use it.

Your last clue that more is going on here then he is admitting to , is that if it is just "online" and for fun....what is this need to "separate"?
Makes no sense.

In any case, you've got some decisions to make.
I wish you success in getting to the truth and also in saving your M.
Here's hoping your H decides to join you in doing just that.
Take care

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

I support TopRope's suggestion of a "test" for all the reasons stated.

Sorry to say .. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . he's just covering his [censored] right now, not actually opening up to the truth. This stage is almost universal with all discoveries .... admit to the already known (minimize it) and cover up as much as possible.

Was there ANY discussion volunteered on his part of honor, values, and truthfulness being the light to a healthy life together? I think not.

Pep

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

sigh...
Pemberly..do it with him sitting next to you..don't give him any warning either, don't want him passing on instructions to them.

No need for the sneaky sneaky.

He has been busted. He knows it. He has offered his version of the truth, he'd better get used to having to back up his words and having them verified before they are believed..nasty side effect of lying to someone..if they are smart they don't believe you quite so easily then next time.

If he has nothing to hide [besides his shamefull online sex and, oh yeah..that thing a few years ago, and uh...] he won't mind..if he has a conniption..I'd put money on it that he isn't being honest with you still. Top rope is right. Do it. I'd just make certain to have him there as a witness, if for no other reason than he will have all the exposure of his deeds waved under his nose. Bet they look less sexy with his wife doing the talking.

Well, this is your life and your decision. If you feel comfortable with the level of knowledge you have now, and are accepting his promises that his cyber life will end, then follow your own best instincts.

Pep

Re-asking this question:
Was there ANY discussion volunteered on his part of honor, values, and truthfulness being the light to a healthy life together?

Pep

Pem:
{This is going to be hard and fast...cause I'm _____?_____ right about now}

Hold on here, are you Kidding me! (sorry but what the hey).

These people he does "whatever" with are "FRIENDS"???????
And they have "rights" inside your M somehow???

Also let me get this straight, him having cyber sex (at the very least) is something to work on.......but you checking out the story of a KNOWN LIAR is an "automatic" divorce.
Apparently you have been breathing in too much of his "fog" if you are buying any of that nonsense.

OK, I'll now try to calm down and actually help.
If the problem is you "pretending" to be him.......then do this.
He can do the actual typing of the questions to these "friends". (However, YOU write out the words and be right there as he does this).

See problem solved as there is NO DECEPTION on your part.

IF this is innocent, and he doesn't intend to continue with this activity, then he should WANT to Prove his innocence. He should have no problem with this test.

However, What are you going to do when he "balks" at doing this.
Yes, he will act very indignant and rant and rave about how you don't trust him.

Yes, that's a fact. YOU don't. And if your smart (until he proves otherwise) you Shouldn't.
So if you are afraid to test him, then go and get his cooperation.
Maybe you'll get lucky and it will work and he will prove what he's been saying is true.
(That would be the best case scenario.....& I hope that comes about for you).

A warning:
Should you approach him on this (hey it could happen) and he agrees, then it must ALL be done in the same day.
You must have your sample questions ready AT THE Time you ask him to do this.
Why?
Because if you give him a day or 2 to "consider" or get ready to do this.....then he will simply get in contact with these women and instruct them in how they should respond to the questions. Don't give him the answers to the test before he even takes it. Do that and I guarantee that he will pass. You'll still be in the dark...but at least you'll feel better.

Hey, I understand that you may just be afraid of what you'll find out.
We've all been there.
And its your life.
If you can handle the fact that you are most likely being deceived (or at least its a huge possibility) then go about your merry way with the blinders firmly in place.

However, should you choose that option (cause it is one) then don't be surprised when years down the line you are either still miserable or even divorced.

This IS your Time to change the course of your M. Please don't let fear, make you freeze up into doing nothing to help yourself.
But it's your decision to make.
Hope you make the Right one.
later

P.S. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I do apologize for the emotion and my tone, but NOT the message.
Hope it still got through.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Pem -

Glad you are okay. Was concerned about you yesterday.

I agree with the others.

I guess the BIG HUGE red flag for me (besides the sex info in writing/emails) is how your H reacted.

Hasn't he been angry for a long time now?

Hasn't he said that he doesn't want to work on your M?

Hasn't he said he 'feels single'.

He's been angry for weeks (or months?) but now all of a sudden he cries?

You know Pem, I listened to a voice mail message that the OW left on my H's voice mail. It said "...thinking about how good you felt last week and all of the things you did that made me feel so damn good." H denied having sex with her.

Denied, denied, denied. Said that OW was just saying that to make him feel good.

I told H that even if it was a fantasy or fantasy sex, it wouldn't be worded like that. It would be more like "thinking of you and all of the things you COULD do to me to make me feel damn good."

You know what I mean?

Long story short =>My H had sex with her.

You owe it to yourself to learn the truth.

Your H's story is just not ringing true.

Good luck.

sss

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

Pem -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One other thing- why would he hide anything bad from me if he really doesn't want to be married anymore? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because that's what they do.

My H said he thought that if I found out about his A that I would D him in a NY minute. Okay...so why not tell me the truth instead of denying everything? You know, speed up the D. I mean I already knew he was talking to OW, why lie about the rest? It was like pulling teeth to get the truth out of him and it took me about five months to accomplish that...and that was just the basics.

My H also looked tormented and about to cry when I found out. But geez, his BIG SECRET was discovered after all. I guess that would make me feel like crying also.

Get ready. Your H will say things to throw you off track (like the ONS 3 years ago), admit only to what you already know and then when you start closing in, you'll probably get blamed for his wandering ways.

It's good that you are thinking carefully about your next move. Figure out what you need to know, how you are going to get the information and what you are gonna do with it.

I feel for you pem. This isn't a nice place to be (BS).

Take care.

sss

Pem,

You asked why he would bother to lie if he doesn't want to be married to you anymore anyway, right?

It seems to be another part of the fog. None of it really makes any sense to the non-fogged mind. It really is no indicator at all of whether he still wants to be married, doesn't want it, whether or not he will continue what he's been doing, etc.

My X walked out on me, leaving a huge note that said that he really loved her and had to give it a try, but said at least twice that he didn't really think it was over between us. (Huh? Ok, so in other words, shut up, let me have my little fling, and wait, I'll be back eventually?)

He called two days later, wanting to come home. I said we could work on things, but he couldn't come home until some conditions were met (REALLY dump OW this time! and couldn't continue living with her while working on things with me, etc.), told him it would probably be a good year before he could come home (and maybe that sounds harsh, but I know him - without a hard and fast boundary, and one that was going to take quite a while, he would have just tried to change my mind, and put all his efforts into convincing me to change my mind, instead of working on the marriage.) He was very upset at this, but agreed. For the next 3 1/2 months, we went to counseling at our church, and through that whole time, he claimed to be living with his (male) friend with friend's wife and 2 kids.

The reality was: he never quit living with OW.

Now why? He knew I was no longer going to tolerate this behavior. The reason he told me about the affair was because OW was going to tell me (funny thing is, she is STILL not divorced from her husband yet, though our D is now final.) It was obvious that playing both sides of the fence wasn't going to work anymore, but he continued to try to do so.

They lie because it's what they do in that situation. Logical, rational thought does not enter into the process.

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: pemberley ]</small>

Pem,

It's not up to your WH to set the terms...it's all up to you. If he wants to save your M, he'll do anything and everything that it takes.

You need to set the boundries for recovering your M (NC, IC, MC, etc.).

If your H can't or won't do whatever it takes to save your M, do you really want to be M'd to him?

Take care.

sss

Pem,

There are a lot of smart people here, and most have been through alot. Many have learned their lessons in there own lives and through tens or even hundreds of others who have gone through the same thing that you are going through here in MB. It's time to put the fog proof glasses on and do as the others have recommended. You can "what if" yourself to death about why H has done this, and why H has said that, but the one universal truth is that he is a liar and a cheat. He will say anything and do anything to keep his secret. He may not be a bhorrible person. That's just the way WS are..all of them. He is no worse than the rest, but prob no better either. He will not admitt anything until he is busted stone cold, and until the fog has lifted. Do the test, and then do PLAN A!!

Listen to Top Rope, Pepper and Noodle. They will help you and they are very smart!

Mugs