She said that I will have a hard time with another man raising my kids when/if my wife gets married since I'll have no rights with them anymore and will have no say in what he does/doesn't do.

but rrh...their mother in your eyes is so very replacable....with new mom....

why wouldn't you be the same....

You two using this forum...
HERE

where people are under such pain from actions exactly like yours...
under the guise of seeking some deeper understanding of marriage......

yet with neither of you intending on fixing all that lies in destruction in your wake...

and you bring it here...
asking people to help destroy marriages all in the name of building you two a new marriage...

destroying children....
so you two can be together and happy....

It is nice to know you possess the profane ability to inflict pain and harm on others extends beyond just your immediate families...and you thrive on spreading the "love'

people here would not be able to help you and your OP build a healthy marriage..
neither of you are capable of doing so..

you lack the tools and the basic concept of compassion...needed to even start...

It's all about you you you...

I have no affair triggers...
and I am sure you two can burn up the pay phone telephone lines....
as you use this forum as fodder for your chaos...

ARK

Would you want your children to live their lives as you have done?

At the end of your life when you stand in judgement before God, what justifications will you have for the damage you've caused your spouses, children, and the members of your church?

Where in God's Word does he say to forsake vows because it's more fun elsewhere? Show me the Bible verse where God says His rules apply only when it makes you happy.

Read Hosea. It was rough but he did what God told him to do. Do you think God blessed him?

What will happen with the passage of time and that passion dims, will you have the same excuses to cheat again? I REALLY didn't love him/her. I had abandoned my family so I felt obligated to marry. I've never been happy. The children will be better off with happy separated parents rather than parents who are together yet not happy..hogwash and you know it.

Proverbs 14:1 Every wise woman builds her house; but the foolish pluck it down with her hands.

Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies v 12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Exodus 20:14 Thou shall not commit adultery

Proverbs 9:17+ Stolen waters are sweet and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. but he knoweth not that the dead are there and that her guests are in the depths of hell

Proverbs 6:32 But whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding; he that does it destroys his own soul.

Sorry for being so blunt but you two just aren't able to hear. You know that what you're doing is wrong. You're a disappointment to so many people-the damage you've done, the gossip you've caused and the reasoning people will give to not go to your church because of your behavior. Not only have you destroyed two families, you've damaged the name of Christ. Think about it.

If you've coming looking for support for this relationship here, you've come to the wrong place. A really good place you can go for support is gloryb.com. It's full of dead souls who will encourage you to go right ahead and make yourselves happy-don't worry about the expense to yourselves or others. After all, you two are the center of the universe....

mllc/rrh, all I can say is Wow. Just wanted to give u my two cents, if it is even worth anything. I was, am, and will always be the BS in my relationship with my WH because we are irrevocably tied because of our children. His A caught me by surprise at first, but now that I'm on the path to recovery, I could see that it was not always the bed of roses I reflected it to be. Yet, the only thing that I could say to you both at the moment, is that it is nothing that bad within both of your marriages, that cannot be FIXED. Everything within our marriage was fixable, however, the selfish behavior that my H exhibited and still does until this day made it not-fixable...because everything was based around his happiness. I'm sure he and the OW debated long and hard how they would come to the point they are at now...she even told me, you are both wonderful people...u just do not belong together. Wow, she knew him about two years to my 17....she's pretty psychic, don't u think.

However, I digress, but I must make this point. I'm an adult and am growing stronger and more independent by the day. I'm getting "over" the deceit and am moving forward. My children however, are not. They were left behind! Dad chose the OW over them. My daughter never veils the disgust over her Dad's actions of following his heart. My son, he looks at his father with $$ in his eyes...quality time is non-existent. However, as my H slowly emerges from the fog and back into reality, he's realized that his heart did not lead him down the righteous path with regard to his children. They do not trust him...they feel abandoned, and they are hurting. They do not understand, nor will for quite sometime. Do you know why? Because they are children and their minds at this stage, no matter how mature or how advanced we believe our kids to be, are not developed to understand. It is simple Psychology 101.

You've come to a Marriage Builders board...they help folks here, not dessimate marriages. If you are looking for anyone here who will encourage or even give you one iota of "permission" you must have bolts in your neck. People come here to understand and then rebuild their marriages. They are taught, through professionalism and experience, how to forgive and work through the horror they are currently experiencing. You are coming on this board and asking people to approve of the very behavior they are all suffering as a result of. I believe it is called unmitigated gall.

The truth is, I feel very badly for you. As you both are in such a juvenile state at the moment...really cute and very indicative of that Romeo and Juliet scene....pulease....I remember my WH spouting the very same drivel to me about the OW and how horrible our marriage was, and you know what....it is just so very different today, and we're still separated.

The only favor I ask of you....read the Bible...you both need it, more than you know.

Hi rrh... I just have a quick comment for you...

In response to what 'noodle' had posted to you, you state:

"You know, you have nailed me quite well."

Do you think that noodle is psychic?

Do you think that noodle might be someone that knows you in real life?

Or could it be that you are no different than any other ws? That your situation is not special or unique?

The fact that noodle "nailed me quite well", doesn't that in itself tell you something?

Isleepwithacat

OK, I did not post my original story so I could find an excuse to continue the A...though it might seem like that. I wrote b/c I know that the ppl on this site have exper. that no one else dealing w/ us has. When my H & I moved to TX, a friend gave me a book by S.H...Affair Proof Marriage. I began to read & it truly was starting to help me w/ withdrawals b/c I could see that my sit. was not so unique. I started this thread to see if there was some insight that some of you could give to "shake us into reality." & honestly, it has helped.
Rrh had stopped us once b/f b/c of his children & what you've said has given him fears again. However, he still thinks we could defy the odds w/ his kids, our marriage, etc.
I, on the other hand, am pretty sure that all of your prophecies will come true. I know that there is a slight possibility we will "be happy", but even if that turns out to be so, there will always be much regret.
This is the first time through this that I have been away from my H & I am starting to miss him. I have told rrh that I think I still love my H, though I know I love rrh.
One of you said that I am like a drug addict & that is exactly how I feel. Like I am doing something I know is going to hurt me & those I love/love me, but I'm willing to do it anyway. Why? Mostly it's for "the high" & b/c I don't want to fight anymore. I guess I thought we'd be hit by some revelation by some WS or expert out there...
In a sense, my hope in going w/ him is that we will both end up hating eachother when faced w/ reality & that it will not be too late w/ our spouses. It just seems like the only way for us to end this is for us to face reality & realize that we'll not be happy w/ eachother.
I guess I should have named this thread "just want to waste your time."
Thanks for all your advice.

mllc..

I'm so sorry to hear that you have chosen to do this. It is always so sad to watch someone who has climbed out of an addiction far enough to consider abandoning it waffle on the helm of their decision and choose to go back in. It is not unlike watching you put the needle to your arm, aware that this time might be the one that destroys you..but convincing yourself that it is what you need because the thought of leaving it behind is too painfull. I would grieve to see these important years of life wasted on something that you ultimately will regret. Time will pass..and when you have both satisfied for yourselves that, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all...a lot of doors that are presently open may well be closed for you. At the very least I hope that the two of you will act as honorably in your dishonor as to recognize the extreme likelyhood of failure in this endeavor and refrain from having children for a significant amount of time. However...as you are both in a very rash and selfish frame of mind it is unlikely that you would extend this mercy as it would be seen as a concession and not a preventative measure. RRH would surely not tolerate this. After all, you are clearly doing the right thing here..you will make it..there is nothing to prevent. Right?

Mllc..do not be fooled...you are not going with him in the hopes that you will both end up hating each other. This is absurd..you are going with him because you want to. If the two of you ever plan to be honest about your situation...I hope that your faith isn't important to you..because no church will ever accept your situation as valid..even if you manage to marry. You will never have the home with rrh that you imagine unless you are willing to lie for the rest of your life. Then your life will be a lie. So accept that in christian culture you and your lover will be social pariahs. Will you never want children? Will you be ok with them being excluded from having a church to grow up in? Have you decided that there is no value to be had in it?

RRH..congratulations on the successfull suicide ruse to re-establish contact. It has worked out exactly as you had hoped. You know very well she can't make an honest choice about her future with you banging down her door...you have admitted as much. What really matters though..is that you get what you want. So whether she would choose differently if given room to do so..room to recover from her addiction and then choose...is irrelevent for you except to make certain that she does in fact not have that room. Too bad mllc is unable to see what is so glaringly obvious to everyone who is not being manipulated. You feel I am harder on you than her..you are correct. Mllc is a very young woman..she is not experienced in life. You are not a young man. You know exactly what you are doing and you don't care. You are fully willing to take these years and throw them away because you have already had the things in life that she will miss out on the opportunity of having. I wonder if when Mllc is 34...she will look back not only in shame but also with deep, and enduring regret that she was so badly taken advantage of. That she was so blind. Just like a drug addict.

Mllc..you never ever fix an addiction with more exposure. When you go completely into this you have no guarantee that you will come out whole on the other end. I'm sorry that there was no revelation for you here. It isn't that a revelation wasn't available..it's that you have shut your eyes and ears to them. You don't want a revelation..you want a way to continue this affair, and not suffer the consequences..or end the affair and not suffer the consequences. Someone has done badly by you in allowing you to reach adulthood without realising that consequences are not avoidable. You have made a bad choice..and you will bleed for it. I'm so sorry. --Noodle

mllc..

I'm so sorry to hear that you have chosen to do this. It is always so sad to watch someone who has climbed out of an addiction far enough to consider abandoning it waffle on the helm of their decision and choose to go back in. It is not unlike watching you put the needle to your arm, aware that this time might be the one that destroys you..but convincing yourself that it is what you need because the thought of leaving it behind is too painfull. I would grieve to see these important years of life wasted on something that you ultimately will regret. Time will pass..and when you have both satisfied for yourselves that, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all...a lot of doors that are presently open may well be closed for you. At the very least I hope that the two of you will act as honorably in your dishonor as to recognize the extreme likelyhood of failure in this endeavor and refrain from having children for a significant amount of time. However...as you are both in a very rash and selfish frame of mind it is unlikely that you would extend this mercy as it would be seen as a concession and not a preventative measure. RRH would surely not tolerate this. After all, you are clearly doing the right thing here..you will make it..there is nothing to prevent. Right?

Mllc..do not be fooled...you are not going with him in the hopes that you will both end up hating each other. This is absurd..you are going with him because you want to. If the two of you ever plan to be honest about your situation...I hope that your faith isn't important to you..because no church will ever accept your situation as valid..even if you manage to marry. You will never have the home with rrh that you imagine unless you are willing to lie for the rest of your life. Then your life will be a lie. So accept that in christian culture you and your lover will be social pariahs. Will you never want children? Will you be ok with them being excluded from having a church to grow up in? Have you decided that there is no value to be had in it?

RRH..congratulations on the successfull suicide ruse to re-establish contact. It has worked out exactly as you had hoped. You know very well she can't make an honest choice about her future with you banging down her door...you have admitted as much. What really matters though..is that you get what you want. So whether she would choose differently if given room to do so..room to recover from her addiction and then choose...is irrelevent for you except to make certain that she does in fact not have that room. Too bad mllc is unable to see what is so glaringly obvious to everyone who is not being manipulated. You feel I am harder on you than her..you are correct. Mllc is a very young woman..she is not experienced in life. You are not a young man. You know exactly what you are doing and you don't care. You are fully willing to take these years and throw them away because you have already had the things in life that she will miss out on the opportunity of having. I wonder if when Mllc is 34...she will look back not only in shame but also with deep, and enduring regret that she was so badly taken advantage of. That she was so blind. Just like a drug addict.

Mllc..you never ever fix an addiction with more exposure. When you go completely into this you have no guarantee that you will come out whole on the other end. I'm sorry that there was no revelation for you here. It isn't that a revelation wasn't available..it's that you have shut your eyes and ears to them. You don't want a revelation..you want a way to continue this affair, and not suffer the consequences..or end the affair and not suffer the consequences. Someone has done badly by you in allowing you to reach adulthood without realising that consequences are not avoidable. You have made a bad choice..and you will bleed for it. I'm so sorry. --Noodle

mllc..

I'm so sorry to hear that you have chosen to do this. It is always so sad to watch someone who has climbed out of an addiction far enough to consider abandoning it waffle on the helm of their decision and choose to go back in. It is not unlike watching you put the needle to your arm, aware that this time might be the one that destroys you..but convincing yourself that it is what you need because the thought of leaving it behind is too painfull. I would grieve to see these important years of life wasted on something that you ultimately will regret. Time will pass..and when you have both satisfied for yourselves that, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all...a lot of doors that are presently open may well be closed for you. At the very least I hope that the two of you will act as honorably in your dishonor as to recognize the extreme likelyhood of failure in this endeavor and refrain from having children for a significant amount of time. However...as you are both in a very rash and selfish frame of mind it is unlikely that you would extend this mercy as it would be seen as a concession and not a preventative measure. RRH would surely not tolerate this. After all, you are clearly doing the right thing here..you will make it..there is nothing to prevent. Right?

Mllc..do not be fooled...you are not going with him in the hopes that you will both end up hating each other. This is absurd..you are going with him because you want to. If the two of you ever plan to be honest about your situation...I hope that your faith isn't important to you..because no church will ever accept your situation as valid..even if you manage to marry. You will never have the home with rrh that you imagine unless you are willing to lie for the rest of your life. Then your life will be a lie. So accept that in christian culture you and your lover will be social pariahs. Will you never want children? Will you be ok with them being excluded from having a church to grow up in? Have you decided that there is no value to be had in it?

RRH..congratulations on the successfull suicide ruse to re-establish contact. It has worked out exactly as you had hoped. You know very well she can't make an honest choice about her future with you banging down her door...you have admitted as much. What really matters though..is that you get what you want. So whether she would choose differently if given room to do so..room to recover from her addiction and then choose...is irrelevent for you except to make certain that she does in fact not have that room. Too bad mllc is unable to see what is so glaringly obvious to everyone who is not being manipulated. You feel I am harder on you than her..you are correct. Mllc is a very young woman..she is not experienced in life. You are not a young man. You know exactly what you are doing and you don't care. You are fully willing to take these years and throw them away because you have already had the things in life that she will miss out on the opportunity of having. I wonder if when Mllc is 34...she will look back not only in shame but also with deep, and enduring regret that she was so badly taken advantage of. That she was so blind. Just like a drug addict.

Mllc..you never ever fix an addiction with more exposure. When you go completely into this you have no guarantee that you will come out whole on the other end. I'm sorry that there was no revelation for you here. It isn't that a revelation wasn't available..it's that you have shut your eyes and ears to them. You don't want a revelation..you want a way to continue this affair, and not suffer the consequences..or end the affair and not suffer the consequences. Someone has done badly by you in allowing you to reach adulthood without realising that consequences are not avoidable. You have made a bad choice..and you will bleed for it. I'm so sorry. --Noodle

Dear Noodle,
I was not expecting a response, but thank you for it. You are very right when you say that I am looking for a way to continue or end the affair w/o suffering the consequences. I want to end the affair w/o losing rrh. I know that doesn't make sense...
Rrh has not been manipulating me w/ suicide. He ended one phase of NC w/ it.
There have been several times this week when one of us has decided to stop our A. As soon as he gives in & I start to face the realities of giving him up, I panic. This post is not to look for excuses, but to give a full view of the sit. & hear more advice.
As soon as I give rrh up, I start facing the future.

1. My H is already saying that he's not sure if he'd take me back. (H & I are having N/C so he does not get hurt anymore, but my pastor told me that today.) He also told me that he has become interested in my best friend now & after he left my house, he went to her house & talked to her for over an hr.

2. H is a very naive person-believes most anything. Also, he has male friends, but he doesn't fit in male conversation very well. He does a lot better w/ female conv. than male conv. & that really annoys me. Men don't respect him. I can change his mind about anything! If I put up a fight about something, I usually win. Can this be fixed?

3. We were both very religious together-church was our lives: don't go to movies, only church music, modest clothing to the extreme, in church everytime the doors are open, anything the pastor says is right, etc. I am not saying there is anything wrong w/ that...I used to think I'd die if that changed. I am different now. I don't really want to go back to that.
Giving rrh up means "repentance" to my fam, friends, & H. That is what is hard. If I go back to my H, it means getting right w/ God. I tried reading my Bible & praying, listening to preaching tapes, etc., & it only hurts & makes me want to run away from it.
Also, I will have to face ladies at church that will cling to their H's everytime they see me & H's that will be sure to be leary of me, etc. Every friend will be awkward w/ me & make sure they talk to my "poor H."
All this & more seems so hard to me & it would be so much easier to go w/ the man I already admire than have to make myself admire the one I already broke my commitment to.
I'm sure you'll tell me I'm straining at gnats, but can you tell me that in a very logical way, tell me why I shouldn't, & tell me how to stop? Also, how do I stop contacting a man that I think about constantly & when I try not to think about him, it hurts. My pastor had told me that I need to pretend that he's dead, but how do you pretend that a person is dead when you love them & want to share every special moment or dumb thought you have w/ him? We'd thought that confessing would maybe help us stop, but everyone knowing seems more of a reason to "finish what we've begun." People are telling rrh that the fact that we're not still together & getting married proves that he was just the weak man & I was just the strange woman described in Prov. 5-7. That makes me want to prove that I am not just a whore that goes w/ whatever man will take me-I know that's not what I am. But, I am afraid that it's what I'll become if I continue on this path.
I have so much more to question, but the more I write, the more unorganized my thoughts are.
I probably already know the answers, but somehow I think it would help to hear it from someone else. Thanks.

Dear Noodle,
I was not expecting a response, but thank you for it. You are very right when you say that I am looking for a way to continue or end the affair w/o suffering the consequences. I want to end the affair w/o losing rrh. I know that doesn't make sense...
Rrh has not been manipulating me w/ suicide. He ended one phase of NC w/ it.
There have been several times this week when one of us has decided to stop our A. As soon as he gives in & I start to face the realities of giving him up, I panic. This post is not to look for excuses, but to give a full view of the sit. & hear more advice.
As soon as I give rrh up, I start facing the future.

1. My H is already saying that he's not sure if he'd take me back. (H & I are having N/C so he does not get hurt anymore, but my pastor told me that today.) He also told me that he has become interested in my best friend now & after he left my house, he went to her house & talked to her for over an hr.

2. H is a very naive person-believes most anything. Also, he has male friends, but he doesn't fit in male conversation very well. He does a lot better w/ female conv. than male conv. & that really annoys me. Men don't respect him. I can change his mind about anything! If I put up a fight about something, I usually win. Can this be fixed?

3. We were both very religious together-church was our lives: don't go to movies, only church music, modest clothing to the extreme, in church everytime the doors are open, anything the pastor says is right, etc. I am not saying there is anything wrong w/ that...I used to think I'd die if that changed. I am different now. I don't really want to go back to that.
Giving rrh up means "repentance" to my fam, friends, & H. That is what is hard. If I go back to my H, it means getting right w/ God. I tried reading my Bible & praying, listening to preaching tapes, etc., & it only hurts & makes me want to run away from it.
Also, I will have to face ladies at church that will cling to their H's everytime they see me & H's that will be sure to be leary of me, etc. Every friend will be awkward w/ me & make sure they talk to my "poor H."
All this & more seems so hard to me & it would be so much easier to go w/ the man I already admire than have to make myself admire the one I already broke my commitment to.
I'm sure you'll tell me I'm straining at gnats, but can you tell me that in a very logical way, tell me why I shouldn't, & tell me how to stop? Also, how do I stop contacting a man that I think about constantly & when I try not to think about him, it hurts. My pastor had told me that I need to pretend that he's dead, but how do you pretend that a person is dead when you love them & want to share every special moment or dumb thought you have w/ him? We'd thought that confessing would maybe help us stop, but everyone knowing seems more of a reason to "finish what we've begun." People are telling rrh that the fact that we're not still together & getting married proves that he was just the weak man & I was just the strange woman described in Prov. 5-7. That makes me want to prove that I am not just a whore that goes w/ whatever man will take me-I know that's not what I am. But, I am afraid that it's what I'll become if I continue on this path.
I have so much more to question, but the more I write, the more unorganized my thoughts are.
I probably already know the answers, but somehow I think it would help to hear it from someone else. Thanks.

Wow. Fascinating. Like going to the zoo to see if the animals are really like what we see on tv. We all see posts from BH's and BW's ( including me) asking to understand where their WS is at mentally; here they are. In all their righteous rationalization and especially their sense of entitlement. Much more poignant than anything in SAA. And much more revealing. Thank you both for sharing and participating in these discussions. I for one have learned more on this thread than probably my entire 4 months on MB

Dear Mllc..

I am sorry that I do believe that RRHs suicide talk was all about ending your NC... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As far as leaving your lover..it is the right thing to do, you know it.

Do not confuse these two issues..your lover and your husband. If you wish to end your marriage because you do not respect your husband or he has moved on...that is separate from the issue of your affair with RRH.

Your relationship with him is unhealthy. Do you need to be convinced of this? No, you already know it. You have an addiction..not a sweet loving time enduring romance addiction..but a crack addict withdrawing money from an atm at 4 am addiction.

Your relationship with him is not now..nor will it ever be appropriate.

You have abandoned your faith..this is to be expected. It is about more than what you wear and listen to and such though..is it not? I was under the impression that Christianity was in fact not a list of things you don't do. I think there is a relationship in there somewhere, no? What do you think about losing that?

Yes..as soon as you give RRH up you start facing the future..are you excited or frightened? Be more frightened at the lack of future you choose by remaining with him.

Listen..I am not going to pretend to be a big fan of "church ladies" myself...I find a lot of the protestant culture very off putting, so I'm not even going to dignify what has been said to you with a response. I am going to tell you though..that you should not make this decision because someone tossed a gauntlet in your path.

Let's deal with what is before you...I'm not going to tell you that you are straining at gnats..I'm going to tell you that you have a very difficult decision to make, that your heart and mind are torn, that you have an addiction on top of it, and also that you have more options than you think you do. First off..your options are not to choose between your H and RRH..I can see how looking at it this way would be unhelpfull to you. You are forgetting that you do not have to choose either of them. It is perfectly ok to say..I made a mistake in marrying my H, I choose to end it, I choose the consequences of that action...and also to say..I am very much in love with RRH..but it is an unhealthy relationship, one that I am addicted to...to such an extent that I am unable to think clearly or make good decisions that I feel wholely at peace with when I am exposed to him at all..so I am going to choose..even though it will hurt, to leave this relationship behind.

So let's keep talking about those questions that you have..let's really take the time to look at what you can do before you do anything. You fear becoming what everyone says that you will...well, in a way you might..because you have embraced a very unhealthy relationship and become addicted to it..it is very likely that you will continue in this self abusive pattern rather than break out of it and find a healthy relationship to pursue, at the right time, when you are ready. Mllc..you are only 24 years old. Not a child by any means, but so inexperienced I hate to see you miss out on some of the best years of your life with this. It is so avoidable, won't hurt nearly as bad, for nearly as long as you think. Finishing what you have begun seems more in line with a suicide pact than the beginning of a life together...please keep posting and thinking and do not rush into this.--Noodle

I would like to address the following statement to rationalize the effect of divorce on children:

"Does the same thing happen to children who have had a parent die? Do they constantly think that someone else is going to die? How do they cope? Everyone tells them how tragic this is but they will be fine after time. Why can't the children from a divorce situation be fine after a time?
Isn't it all in how you handle it?"

My father died when I was 5 years old, and the answer is yes I constantly thought my mother would die to. From that time, until well into my teenage years, I could not go to sleep if my mother was not home. I would stand by the window worrying and waiting for her to come home. When her car would pull up I would jump into bed and pretend to be asleep. No one ever knew I did this. So don't kid yourselves that this kids will be fine, they will not be fine, but chances are you will not know the full effect it will have on their lives. The difference between death and divorce is that divorce is a choice. You will be choosing to destroy your childs life, my father did not choose that destiny for his child.

Kloe,

I would imagine that divorce is very hard on children, especially if they have had both parents in the home since they were born, however both parents does not guarantee a happy childhood, nor does only one parent guarantee an unhappy childhood.

I was raised with two parents who loved me very much, however my dad was an acute chronic alcoholic, and my mother was a chronic gambler. I never once in my entire life doubted their love for me, or their love for each other. I was lucky compared to what I have seen others go through. The difference being my parents, even with their addictions loved us, were kind, were generous and were selfless.

My daughter has never known her dad to live with us, however he is as much involved in her life as I am. She is one of the happiest kids I know, including the kids of my friends who are married.

There is not a black and white answer, except that a child needs parents who love him. If they cannot love their child unselfishly, unconditionally and with a whole lot of kindness and patience, than they need to be out of the childs life.

Don't worry Kloe you can give your child a happy, good home with or without your husband.

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

I should not have replied to Kloe on this post. It is irrelevent to the topic of this as I was merely trying to lighten Kloe's worries about her own child and the possibility of being a single parent.

As for people knowingly leaving their children for another, because of feelings of infatuation -that I cannot comprehend, nor condone.

When I speak of a parent leaving the home and the childrens life, it is in the context of neglect or abuse, and that would be in the childs best interest.

OK, now I am not the most rational person right now to respond to a "pity me" thread from two affairees but I just thought if my WW and OM posted this I could be angry enough to kill.

The devastation left where loving lives used to stand before fantastic selfish affairs took place look like hell on earth. Yet hardly any mention or thought of that.

My life came * this* close to being ended by two 'lovers' and I am sure they didn't give a caca either.

This thread has been illuminating, but sadly, has only flled me with disgust at the mentality of affairees.

I will not comment further on threads by these folks as I may become insulting. I hope that all broken hearts in this mess are healed quickly in a way God supports.

Heh..Bob, you must have missed that other thread..it got pretty brutal...seriously. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Bob,

I think you need to change your mindset on this thread. WHEN do we have the ability to hear the WS's positions so clearly and unabashedly. When I train my surgical residents I tell them pay attention to all the patients but memorize the one you or some other doc has screwed up. I have always learned 100x more from my mistakes and errors in judgements.

In this instance we MUST pay attention to "the man behind the curtain of Oz". I believe that what they are telling us is more valuable than gold.

Now they have 3 lovely children, a house, cars, etc. together...

Anything you say beyond this is simply more useless lies you tell yourself.

They are a FAMILY. And you have no business screwing with a family man.

Is your goal to ruin more lives?

Pep

The thing is, we were never totally committed to our spouses.

A self-inflicted lie to make your affair seem as if it were not destroying your family.

You are destroying your family.

Pep