Hey there Bob.
I am glad you had the opportunity to vent.
I would be alarmed if every afternoon you came to vent..but to my knowledge..this is your first isn't it ?

It's been a rough road...I remember...and if I didn't come here to vent....I would have really lost it, myself, my desire to rebuild my M !

It's not so easy in the beginning to keep your emotions in check. It goes against nature. You're repeatedly being hurt/attacked....and we have WHAT to do to weather that storm?

In recovery...POJA works great...as does radical honesty...but your W is still in the midst of the A..... you still have a lot of work to do..and a lot of resistence from the W. Vent.

As for bedtime...this is very tough. I know your W is just doing some of this stuff to lash out at you. She knows she's sucking the kids right into this mess. Unfortunately her fog is not allowing her to see the damage she is causing.

Would therapy for the kids be out of the question ? Your W is creating a terrible environment for them right now.

Oh Oh, I was encouraged as well to write a journal.

I was also told to write as many theraputic letters as I needed to, so I could work through some past anger. Vent, vent, vent, and eat chocolate, lots of chocolate.

Whoa !KY !!! No chocolate ! I bought some more REALLY nice shirts and trousers in size "slim buns" today ! OK my marriage and life are in the toilet BUT I'm lookin' GOOD , girl ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LOL @ the BP fan club shirts idea !

I wonder a "Vote Bob for husband/Father gig" for kids and supportive relatives would be good plan A gesture ?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry K and FH is do have to disagree with you here... I actually encourage people to vent here instead of to their WS.

For several reasons:

1. Waiting for an appointment with your therapist only bottles in your frustrations, and anger (and that isn't healthy for anyone)

2. Your buddies may never have experienced the pain of betrayal like this and can actually become a cheering section for the way you feel. They can actually influence you to increase your feelings in this direction and drive you deeper into these feelings that here-to-fore you were getting out as a release (because they will see it as being supportive friends)

3. In venting here you are among people who are going through what you are going through, and thus a source of true empathy. MBers can and do form "classes" and those upper classman do help the lower classman. Ehen the class becomes old enough the peer group does self monitoring and does everything possible to keep a member from getting stuck. Even in two years I've watched this process enough to trust it.

4. Venting (as long as you know that you are just venting) is a healthy process.. sort of like primal scream therapy.

5. It is a way to acknowledge that those feeling do exist inside you (not hide from them and ignore them, letting them fester and grow) and after acknowledging them you can then let them go and release them. They no longer "live" inside you, you've slayed them with the acknowledgement.

Evil only lives in darkness.

6. Doing that process here is better than doing just about anywhere else (save IC and MC) and certainly better than running the risk of capping them until the pressure is so great you explode at WS.


way2

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Whoa !KY !!! No chocolate ! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't make me lose the shirt all ready. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Are you kidding me, slim buns or not, we all need chocolate, it is like the air we breath.

How sad she keeps ripping on your parenting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Keep your head up, your a good man, and a good father.

ky

I may be lonesome on this one..but I do distinguish between venting and fueling . To vent would be to release pent up pressure. To fuel obviously would be to work yourself into a state of pressure for some reason..maybe to get yourself to take an action that you have been waffling on..or something similar. Bob..what you had looked like a vent to me. I agree that if you were needing to vent on an hourly basis something might be amiss...but I have followed your thread, and to me it looks all healthy and justified and shiny and maybe there is more there to it than you realise? When I find that I have some venom that needs to be expunged...I look at the contents pretty closely. I'd say that your issues needing venting were fairly obvious even to a passerbye. The nice thing about approaching a vent this way [and especially in writing] is that you now have the opportunity to examine yourself with regard to your anger etc and to prepare yourself for the two of you needing to deal with it in an appropriate way, at an appropriate time. At some point all of this will need to be addressed..your hurt..what you think of her actions..all of it. Just in a proper manner, and not any time soon it seems. In the meantime..be frank, it's for posterity <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
--Noodle

Hi Bob, I ID'd with your vent for what it was .... a vent that is sometimes much needed. IMHO I think that when you re read it at another time, you will be to ask yourself ...."was I really feeling that bad?"
Is it this w'end for the tournament? If so go & have fun & be the most attentive H for all to see to your W.
I now know that when my H was having one of his A's & I was being nice (not that i had a clue but with 20/20) he didn't like it & we often had fights. Now I can see them for what they were. You are lucky (?)in knowing why she is like she is & can avoid the L/B's. Wish I had known.
Good luck & ppplllease let us know how it goes.
Still smiling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Bob,

I'll stick to what I wrote before - think of your W as a teenager for now. Rather than being abducted by aliens <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> she's reverted back to the emotional state of a teenager. A frustrated teenager that will scream "I hate you!" and slam the door of her room when things don't go her way. But she'd be scared to death if you would do the same to her. As a "parent", you will be somewhat hurt of course by such words and actions, but you will not take this things too seriously. And you will not let them get in the way of the future love because you know the "teenager" is not in a good place with herself.

Teenager will lash out at their parents. They will display unacceptable, annoying, rude behaviour. And yet they love their parents and the parents love them. It's just a difficult period that has to be dealt with.

The only thing is - can you really accept your W acting like a teenager right now? It would make things a lot easier. You are the only adult in the house right now, really.

Glad you found your sense of humor back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
And remember, like the Wise One once said.. forgive her for she knows not what she is doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I may be lonesome on this one..but I do distinguish between venting and fueling . To vent would be to release pent up pressure. To fuel obviously would be to work yourself into a state of pressure for some reason..maybe to get yourself to take an action that you have been waffling on..or something similar. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">noodle,

Cannot call you lonesome. This is what I tried to express a week or so ago on the D/D forum. Your statments are so much clearer than mine could have ever been.

Your "something similar" remark could be having others join in the melee to tell a poster that they are right...that the WS is a lowlife...pond scum...life form sucking bag of whale blubber. Sometimes people need to bash others to feel good about themselves...and it comes out in those "vents". Please understand that is JMHO.

I have read some "vent" threads and I see ranting and raving...and it's easy to get a bash going. It doesn't help when others are feeding into that frenzy.

I think a "vent" is expressing some emotion with the first action afterward being to regroup and come up with a plan...not for the purpose of bettering themselves.

I watched one poster title every thread "vent for this" "vent for that" "just a vent"..."everywhere a vent vent". It does NOTHING but keep the person stuck in the same darn thing...and that cannot be good.

I honestly have no opinion on this post other than I did cringe when I saw the word "stupid" used in reference to his wife. That is one word that I abhor. I feel that word is the most degrading and humiliating word to use...especially about a loved one. It was probably just a trigger for me...it's a word that is slung about when being verbally abused and lashed.

Thanks again the good clarification. I can relate.

committed

[Forrest Gump] Stupid is as stupid does [/Forrest Gump]

I am not in a mood to be politically correct aboyt my WWs actions, nor am I in the mood to misrepresent my deepest feelings on an anonymous MB that I thought was full of friends. It felt good to rant! I thought it was funny but also releieving for me. I had not formed those words in my mouth or mind before that rant and I needed to say them. They would certainly have come out to my WW had I not said them here and that would not have been useful.
I am sorry my words have triggered bad feelings within you. That was not my intention.

I am sorry my words have triggered bad feelings within you. That was not my intention.

No problem. You aren't responsible for my feelings. I was just making statement of how that word affects me and brings back terrible memories for me.

That is the only feeling that I had about the post.

committed

{{{{{BOB)))))

Bob, hugs to you! You don't owe anyone here an apology.

Your post was what you needed to express at the time. I have read so many other things that you have written and you have shown an unbeleivable amount of love and patience towards your WW through all the crap she is throwing at you!

As it was pointed out here, no one here is a therapist. Many are well versed on MB principles and will offer help, many are new here and willing to throw in their 2 cents worth. We all have life experiences that affect how we respond here. You are free to take what you feel is helping and disregard anything else.

You did not start this thread to begin a debate on the pros/cons of venting in general nor should you have to be involved in that. You came here for support and I think that you have a tremendous amount of it. Can I order a shirt too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Bob, I totally understand the anger you have. my H said the similar things(sometime worse) to me many times when he couldn't control his anger. I think the vent helps you to release your anger, but it may not help you to recover teh marriage. From my own experience, every time when my H screams at me with the most insulting words, it makes me doubt his love for me and any hope for the marriage. I have to convince myself that it is just his anger talk to get myself back on track. So, I guess if you find hard time to manage your anger, this is a good place to vent b/c we are all here for you. But try not to say those things to you WW. It does more damage than good to your marriage, especially now, you both need the faith and hope of recovery.

I bought her a bouquet to freshen up the dining room. She threw them away. I rescued them before the kids noticed, cut them down and arranged them in a vase.

" sorry" she said under her breath afterwards... " They're lovely".

I might just have to drown her...or kiss her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob,
Enjoy your kids, enjoy the flowers, get outside and do something fun. I would not advise that you try to kiss your W now, give her time, she is in withdrawal and is not ready. I would also advise that you do not drown her, I think you would regret it later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Enjoy your weekend and remember this is a marathon not a race. You WILL be OK!

Bob, don't know what is your WW's problem and she couldn't see the great love you have for her. One possible explaination, she may be angry at herself for screwing up things. I know I am and that can be very frustrating. She may also be angry at you and wish the flowers were there before teh A. Don't get discouraged. Once you WW understands that your love is there no matter how bad a shape she is in, she will believe your love.

IP2L, the flowers have always been there. The loving gestures have ALWAYS been there from me. I think she hates these gestures right now because they remind her that I HAVE always been loving towards her, despite her trying to rewrite history in her mind.

Still, as I said to her when she threw them away "I wanted to buy them for you out of love, what you do with them is your choice".

What I think I have failed to do pre-a is NOT fail to provide affection/loving gestures etc, but instead was to stand up to her claims for yet more needless independence in a spirit of love.

As she pulled away from me and withdrew into her sport, I talked about my uneasiness but never made it clear how upset I was by her choosing to spend less and less time with me. I let her stall me and I never took action to provide fun alternatives to her sport.

I chose a path of 'lazy love' - letting her have her own way against my wishes and instinct for what was right.

In retrospect I think she was testing me: seeing if I would 'fight' for her. I didn't.

Ah, if we had a time machine huh ?

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob, I am just GUESSING, could it be possible that she views your love as "being controlling" and trying to run away from it? Is it possibe you two talk about how she felt about the marriage and you before the A? Hang there and good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> I bought her a bouquet to freshen up the dining room. She threw them away. I rescued them before the kids noticed, cut them down and arranged them in a vase.

" sorry" she said under her breath afterwards... " They're lovely".

I might just have to drown her...or kiss her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember friend ... she's going to place all her anger ON you ...

and there is much more anger in store comming your way....

because....

the affair is falling apart like a 2-week-old donut

the more she realizes the OM is not Mr. Wonderful.... the more she's going to fight to defend her emotional fall by using YOU as the scapegoat! (instead of getting angry and upset at OM for taking GF on a romantic holiday.... YOU become the enemy .... AND your posies too!)

Wear an invisible insult-proof helmet at all times....

BUT BUT BUT .... I DO see that what bothers you the most is when your WW is HURTING THE KIDS!!!!!

There is a huge difference here.... if you need to ignore her feelings in order to protect the kids from her actions, do it. That's your job.
If you can protect the kids in such a way that does not hurt your wife's feelings, then do it that way. If it is possible to POJA the issues surrounding the kids (which I highly doubt K) then by ALL means, work with your W as a parenting team. But if she is unreasonable and unkind because her 2 week old donut is dry and stale, it should not fall on the kids' heads that she is feeling poopy and shat upon by OM.

But I gotta tell ya, there isn't much you can do right now that is NOT going to piss her off..... she IS out of control.

So, YOU remain in control, protect your kids, and stay out of range whenever you can.

I suggest you change your tactic for the moment.... instead of spending very much time with WW ... get the kids out of there as much as possible ..... go have fun with them. Their lives sound so stressful right now.

Pretend your W is sick as a dog with the worst flu ever. And what she has is contageous! Keep the kids away from her germs. Her anger and her fear and her resentments are pouring out of her, and I doubt she has much control over herself.

Are the kids in school? If they are, here is what I did when things in our home were so chaotic ... I made an appointment with the school principal, and I told her about what was going on without saying it was an affair. I asked her to keep her eyes on the kids. The family was "in crisis" and they may be acting out in school. It was one of the best things I did during that time frame.

Take care...

Pep

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep, your post rings true. I have no idea how I would cope ith this if I hadn't read SAA, learned the MB theorem and without the support of you folks...I'd've gone crazy.

My kids have another 2 weeks of their absurdly long summer school break.

Now my son I can resolve at school well - I am a governor at his school with a speciality in SEN (Special Educational needs). The SENco. is LOVELY and she is a good friend of ours. AND its her JOB to help in exactly this sort of situation.

I can expose the A to her, the MB principles and she will keep an educated eye on my son to make sure he has everything he needs to get through this at school.

My DD starts at high school at a brand new school.

The school has a great rep' for pastoral care, but I will need to meet them and learn whats up before I expose the A there.

Pep, I honestly do agree with you that the A is crumbling - I can almost not see any way that it can sustain right now, certainly not leading to OM & WW being together.

But as you say everything I do is being wilfully misinterpreted by WW. For example the Champagne " I know what you're trying to do, you P****, you can't buy my love ! " ( I have always bought her favourite champagne - I was just doing what I have always done - in love).

Re: teh flowers " Money isn't everything ! Your da*n money means NOTHING to ME !!! ( a fifteen dollar summer bouquet ? Huh ?)

Ref: painting : "You think home improvements are a match for the fantastic love I have found with OM ? You are pathetic - He is a better man than you in every way - your opposite!"

Ref: doing fun stuff with the kids " trying to win the kids over to your side is a low trick"

etc etc. I have responded to each one of these " You have made your opinion very clear about that issue. Ah the dishwasher needs emptying...la la la la " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'd be lying if I said this was an easy time BUT as I have said I know whats going on, and my part within the scheme of things.

Many things could've happened in the month since D-day ( one month today) and I never expected that the A would already be crumbling so completely, that OM would be desperately denying my WW and reconciling with his GF and that he would chicken out of the tournament AND that my WW would still be in my house and life, making plans for our future.

And I have other exposures to use if contact persists (although these, like nukes, must be used carefully).

The fact that WW talks like she hates me sometimes is no surprise to me : knowledge of her emotional state and likely behaviour is my power here. It is the fact that she sometimes talks to me CIVILLY is more of a surprise ( like lunchtime today).

There are many many folks on this board who would swap their situation from mine right now.

My fear now is that I may LB over the kids - although today my WW has reset some behaviour boundaries with my SS that have ben missing for weeks. SS didn't like it but it was great to have her back me up !

Also I fear that my LB$ may be running our too fast. She really is deliberately spiteful and hurtful and withdrawal from my LB$ aren't something I can control. I am stronger every day ( thank God !), but one downside is that I no longer cling desperately to staying with my WW as the only tenable alternative ahead of me.

I agree that time apart will help for a while. I worked in another town yesterday and it was nice not to worry about LBing for a day (and knowing OM is 1000 miles away with GF!).

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>