Sent H an appoligy for sending the messages yesterday. I was being to sentimental. I told him I think it was a mistake trying to contact him and that I really have to try to get over him if he still doesn't want me.

Sure that's probably not the best thing to say to him but everytime we start talking again I fall right back into wanting him to be around again and that's not helping me get the things done that I need to do.

He now wants to meet me for lunch to talk about things. I really don't know what to do. I'm so afraid that he's just going to reiterate just how much he thinks we won't work. I've tried to be strong the past few days but today I know I'm vulnerable. I know I won't be able to keep from crying in front of him if that's what he tells me. Plus I don't know if the girl told him about my visit during her last class. Thursday was the first time she would have seen her since I met with her parents. I really don't know what to do right now. I just don't want to screw things up again.

His exact message was "Going to the gym, eat something after if you want to talk."

I'm not sure if I want to talk? I'm supposed to meet him in 20 mins!

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: ivoryivy ]</small>

Dear Ivy:

Unless you are seriously trying plan A or plan B and your H is truly repentant and truly wants to make things right, then do not talk to him. It seems that he has a way of charming you and making you feel things that will enable you to manipulated.

You were a little brief so I am not sure if this is the case but the way you wrote it, it sounded like you wanted to get on with your life. If that is the case, cut the ties.

My H was sleeping openly with another woman, living half the week with me and half the week with her (legally I could not kick him out of the marital residence). He continued to call me everyday. It was very pathetic. I had to cut the cord. I would never call. If he called, I would answer his questions in yes, no or one sentence answers and tell him I had to go. It iritated him at first but he had no choice but respect this boundary because I would no longer "chit-chat."

I am still in pain. It takes one to two years to recover (and it will admitedly always be a part of you). Pray about discerning dragging out the inevitable, being a sap and not being forgiving. All three are possibilities but women tend to be in the first two categories.

You have a wonderful life to live. God has no desire for you to live in the dumps.

Here's a quickie, hope I caught you in time: WHEN IN DOUBT, DON"T.

You are not ready for this Ivy and I think you KNOW this in your heart.

Unfortunately I didn't get either of these posts before I went to see him. Most of the meeting was fine. Then we got into R talk. He finally admits that it wasn't really me that caused the split. Now it's a bunch of little things. He then appoligizes for telling me that I was unattractive when he left me. He says he still finds me very attractive and he still cares for me quite a bit but he just doesn't want to be in a relationship with me.

Before I left he gives me a hug and asks for a goodbye kiss. I told him I didn't want to say goodbye but I ended up kissing him anyway. Then he goes on about how I turn him on and he wishes we could do what we did right before I left to Texas. (meaning things done to him in a car) He decides he can't go through with being with me because it is wrong and he's trying to be a good person. What kind of good person throws his wife out on the streets!?

Anyway, he tells me he hopes someday we can end up being good friends and I was so angry at him that I told him fine, bue I didn't see that ever happening and that I would be going out tonight then (complete lie). I can't believe want a disgusting person he's become. I can't believe how much control he has over me. I turned into "the girl who will give him anything he wants" when I was with him. To top it off I told him where I was staying, room and all. I was smart enough not to tell him where I'll be working since that is more long term information.

So there I was at my hotel. Sobbing like a child when I get a text message from him that said that it's no longer his biz who I sleep with. I just told him that was a cruel thing to say and he said he didn't mean it that way.

Why does he have this control over me? I don't even find him physically attractive anymore but when I'm near him I throw everything away to give him what he wants.

The whole thing that set this off was that I didn't think it was a good idea to be in contact with him. I told him I couldn't do the things I need to do to move on if I'm in contact with him and he said he understood but then all this other stuff happened. I feel so stupid. He always seems to find the perfect thing to say to make me feel like crap even when he's trying to be nice and say nice things about me. The thing is all that started only a few months ago. Before that he wasn't like that.

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: ivoryivy ]</small>

Okay big LB. I sent him a message saying that he is trying to be a good person but a good person doesn't just give up on his marriage the way he did.

He just sent me a message saying he can't take this anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ivoryivy:
<strong> Unfortunately I didn't get either of these posts before I went to see him.

I told him I couldn't do the things I need to do to move on if I'm in contact with him and he said he understood but then all this other stuff happened.

I feel so stupid. He always seems to find the perfect thing to say to make me feel like crap even when he's trying to be nice and say nice things about me. The thing is all that started only a few months ago. Before that he wasn't like that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so sorry Ivy but you really didn't need to see the posts before you went b/c you know what? Sweetie, you already knew what to do. You need to learn to trust yourself. You "felt" it was a bad idea. Listen to your instincts. Sometimes it's a stumble before we can get up and walk upright and this was one of them for you.

You're on your way Ivy, so much change in such a short time. You are doing alright just don't make the same mistakes twice.

H needs to grow up Ivy, before he can be a equitable, honorable marriage partner. Whether he is YOUR marriage partner remains to be seen.

He is living the life of Rielly right now, 29 years old, living at home with Mommy and Daddy, no reprecussions apparently from his dalliance with a fifteen year old minor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Sounds like he doesn't want to grow up and really why should he? Everyone has made it so easy for him. Why should you?

You can't change HIM, you can only change YOU. From now on it's got to be IVY first, a home, a job, new friends, head held high b/c you are a survivor. You work on the basics, and move on into life becoming the woman you are meant to be, not the little girl that jumps every time he calls or looks at you with a soft look in his eye. That look is bad news, not good. You are better than that. You are not booty call, remember!!

Also don't be trying to make him jealous b/c that backfires every time and you already know that too. The LAST thing you need right now is to hook up w/ anyone else so watch the partying ok? (I'm in Mommy mode can you tell? That H of yours makes me so mad.)

Plan B Ivy, have you read about it? I'll check up on you tomorrow, you probably won't see this til then anyway. Be good to yourself, no more contact for now, ok? {{{{IVY}}}} KB

Hey Ivory,

From what you posted, I'd say the WS is started to learn to communicate in human again. Really.

So while you LB'd a bit and it is clear right now for you it is better NOT to communicate with him until you can handle your emotions better....... even with all that, he managed to show some improvement.

I will not go into the details. I think the exercise of figuring out how he showed the improvement will be good for you in helping you heal.

Hugz,
L.

Ivy,

So the thing he remembered about physical intimacy between the two of you is something you did for him? Fantastic. That might say quite a bit about him.

I think it's not out of line for me to say I've seen your photos, Ivy, and you are a beautiful woman. I think it would be good if you could find a way to overcome the thing that gives your WH power over you. Now - I don't want to encourage the end of your M. And your H is not really speaking fogese, he just seems like a self-centered jerk. That may be worse in a way. Fog people are not themselves.

I agree with the others - if your insticts give you doubts, don't see him. This dude may be your H, but he did not deserve a kiss from you. If he wants to be a human being, and you have any interest, that may be a possibility, but it needs to be on your terms, not his spoiled little entitled mama's boy terms.

GC

Okay here I go again. I didn't mention last night what the other part of the situation was. I was really emotional yesterday not only because of H's behavior but because I had to end a friendship with a person that up to now had been really great at getting me started on my way to getting things back together. As I said before, this person had been a complete gentelman to me in this situation. He had only shown signs of friendship and I was greatful for that but this past week he made it known that he wanted the relationship to change, that he wanted more, and I'm not ready for that so I decided to put a halt to the friendship. It was at that point that H called and I told him I didn't think we would ever be able to just be friends.

I was a mess last night. I've pretty much shortened my list of friends down to one female friend up here now.

This morning I went to a bicycle race in a nearby town that I had been looking forward to going to all year. I found out yesterday that my H's best man was racing in it. I got there early and was sitting in a Subway when I was his friend riding up and down the street. (This is the friend who sent me that awful letter when I tried to tell him about H and the girl). He didn't see me anyway. I called H to appoligize for sending the mean message last night and let him know that I was very upset about things that were going on both with him and with a problem I was having with a friend. He was very cold, said he was still angry and that he'd talk to me some other time.

I left the race to go get a camera (some of the USPS team are racing and I wanted to get a pic of Floyd Landis). I get a call from H (in his happy tone) just as I reach my hotel asking if I had seem Landis and if I was still at the race. I told him I went to get a camera. Then he goes on and tells me what he's going to be up to there and where he's going to be and so on. So when I get back I'm walking toward the place I was before when I bump into he and his friend. He calls me over and says it's okay to say hi. He talks to me for a few minutes and then proceeds to ignore me with his back to me. He didn't even introduce me to his friend's wife and other friend. So I walked a bit farther down and watched the races by myself. At one point he tosses me a Cliff Bar which I though was kind of nice until I noticed that it was peanut flavored and I have a severe allergy to peanuts! So a walked up to him and gave it back. Then one of his students shows up. One that I've known for a few years now and he seemed really uncomfortable with me there. He waved but didn't say a word to me. Finally, when we were all leaving H starts talking to me like normal again after I spent most of the race with his back to me. He gave me the schedule for tommorow's big race and told me when he was going to get there and where he would be.

I'm in better sprit's today than yesterday. I shouldn't have gone to see him yesterday because I was too unstable at the time. I felt it before I went and I knew it would be trouble. Today was different though. I didn't care what he did. There was no hug when we reached our cars and I was fine with that.

Anyway, I don't know what way things will go. I do know that R stuff is not my main priority. I'm going to go see the apartment tomorrow morning and I should be starting my new job this week. R stuff aside, things are looking good.

Hum. My suggestion would be to Plan B your husband and get focused on getting your life together. You may very well love this man, and he may very well love you. That's absolutely swell and groovy -- and at this point, if you got back together you'd just be going back into a high-school dating situation. Do you really want that?

You both have a lot of growing to do, it seems to me. You personally are on a great track toward getting that growing done, and I'm really impressed with it so far. Job, apartment, school -- yep, that's all the stuff of growing into a solid, independent, strong adult. The one thing I'm not seeing is the ability to walk away and say no thank you when someone treats you badly.

I know how that goes -- been there and done that myself. It's tough to figure out. I'm still figuring it out and I'm more than a decade older than you. Here's a few clues, though:

- If someone ignores you, then they're not worth your energy.

- If someone cannot be compassionate with you, then build protections against that person or let them leave your life without sorrow.

- If someone harms you, walk away.

- If someone treats you with disrespect, politely and firmly tell them it's not okay.

This is the really hard stuff, stuff that it takes some people decades to figure out. Stuff that some people never figure out. It's worth it, though.


, though, your WH isn't seeming to be headed in the same direction

Dear Ivoryivy:

I agree that your heart is telling you what to do. You have a long way to go in a short time and you are doing beautifully. You will make mistakes. You will feel like kicking yourself. You will fall into old patterns. Forgive yourself for not being God and go on. Pray in little bits all through the day and all through any conversation you have to have with your H.

You sound like you have been emotionally battered. Like all emotionally battered women (myself included), you want your sacrifices and your emotional needs to count for something. They will never do that until your H changes. But first you must change and demand the respect you so desire.

Do not go over to him when he waves to you.

Do not agree to meet in person.

Do not give in to him.

Do not kiss him. Do not hug him. These are precious gifts that he does not deserve.

Do not say pleasant things to him that are not true. If you catch yourself slipping, correct yourself immediately.

This will change the dynamic between the two of you (abuser-sacrificer). Do not expect him to like it. Be prepared for him to fire everything he has at you. He will kick. He will insult. He will try to manipulate you. You must be firm and leave, even if it seems rude. You can walk away from him. You have that right.

I feel for you because everything you are saying sounds like me from last year. But I can tell you are going to do really well, just believe in yourself.

Hi IvoryIvy,
I have been following your story and I am very worried for you. From my point of view, it seems you keep volunteering for this drama. You must end contact with this man, and you know it, and get on with your life… People here are giving you good advice, but it doesn’t seem like you’re asking for advice, but are just telling us about the drama <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . It really seems you’re having a tough time breaking away from this guy, and my fear is you will be hurt MUCH more severely than is necessary before this happens.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
He then apologizes for telling me that I was unattractive when he left me. He says he still finds me very attractive

…he goes on about how I turn him on and he wishes we could do what we did right before I left to Texas. (meaning things done to him in a car)

I turned into "the girl who will give him anything he wants" when I was with him. To top it off I told him where I was staying, room and all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He’s not very deep, is he…? He valued your attractiveness and your sexual abilities… Guess that’s how he ended up with a 15 yo girl?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sobbing like a child when I get a text message from him that said that it's no longer his biz who I sleep with. I just told him that was a cruel thing to say and he said he didn't mean it that way.

Why does he have this control over me? I don't even find him physically attractive anymore but when I'm near him I throw everything away to give him what he wants.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you cant trust yourself around him, they you must stay away from him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The whole thing that set this off was that I didn't think it was a good idea to be in contact with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone else just said this…. TRUST this feeling!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He just sent me a message saying he can't take this anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See what happens…. HE gets involved with a 15 yo girl, now you’ve given him the opportunity to make YOU the bad guy…. ‘I just cant take this…’ jeeezzzeee!! Some nerve!

The main point in your mind needs to be ‘This man has 1) a lack of boundaries regarding both his marriage and 15 yo girls, and 2) is
dumb enough to get involved with a 15 you girl - while married or otherwise!

These things have not changed! It would take years of personal work and growth for this man to ‘get it’. ‘UNSAFE’ and ‘STUPID’ are qualities that do not change quickly.

He’s basically the same guy who cheated on you, things just didn’t work out as well as he’d have liked with the 15 yo. Do you think he’d be IM’ing you or engaging you if the 15 yo was sitting next to him? Every time you engage this man, you are wallowing with the pigs. A dignified, strong woman would just walk away. He keeps dragging you into the drama. I keep thinking this man is going to have to really trash your heart before you ‘get it’.

Please be careful and take care - Dru

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]</small>

i know that's the case. i'm not strong when i'm around him. he's always had that kind of control over me. i think i keep volunteering for the drama because for some reason i still want things to somehow work out. i've never been good following a plan. my whole goal in life has always been to make everyone else happy. i don't even know how to make myself happy without doing something good for someone else. if i ever try to do anything for myself i just feel guilty about it. it's true that i just report here, mainly because i don't have anyone else to talk to about things. i've lost my trust in everyone. the truth is that i don't want out but i'm being forced out and it hurts. i guess i'm just babbling now. sure my life looks as though it's getting better but i really hate this change and there's nothing i can do that's going to make me feel good about it. i'm just being negative right now. i don't know what i really want to do or where i want to be, all i know is it's not where i am now or where it looks like i'm going. actually, that's not entirely true. i do know what i want but i can't do it on my own. i think i was born in the wrong era. what i want now is frowned upon for women in these times.

like i said, i'm just feeling really negative today so this probally will mean nothing tomorrow. it's just how i feel today.

Hi IvoryIvy,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
the truth is that i don't want out but i'm being forced out and it hurts </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's all right. But the truth is more like this HE didnt work out, and it hurts. I assume you never wanted to be cheated on by a (borderline) child molester...

You cant blame yourself for his actions. The only thing you can do is recognize a problem and deal with it, which is what you are doing. I do know it sucks!! (let me tell you about the 8 YEARS I wasted with MY ex-H, someday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ), but better to get out early than to have children and waste your youth. Trust me. You'll be proud you did the right thing. Please take care - Dru

Okay, I'm feeling much better now. It's amazing what a little food will do. I went over to the complex and signed all the papers for the ball to get rolling. I'll find out tomorrow if my credit checks out okay. I'm still a bit worried about that. The good thing is that my roommates income looks like it's going to be good enough to cover the both of us if I can't get the letter from my employer. We'll see.

It always takes me a few days to get over seeing my H but I think it's getting better now. I registered for my classes this fall. I'm going to take two classes that are classes that are taken from home and one that I actually have to attend. Hopefully that will work out. I'm feeling a little better about things in general. At least I stopped sobbing like a crazy person. Hopefully I'll have good news tomorrow about the apartment. If everything goes well I can start moving in Friday night.

Unfortunately that means I'll finally have to go back to the house to pack up my things and see our room no longer as our room and only as his room. On the bright side, I picked up some paint chips so that if I do get the apartment I can decide how I want to personalize it. H always insisted on white walls. I think I'm ready for a little color now.

A 28yr. old man and a 15 yr. old girl!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I'm not sure I'd call him a pedophile but if seems from his behaviour he has an abnormal attraction to underage girls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Ok, that is a HUGE problem and not one that you can fix. The right move for you, is exactly what you are doing...trying to stay as far away as possible from him.

As someone stated already, listen to your instincts (the little voice inside), they're usually right!

Dear Ivoryivy:

You are doing great (although you do not feel like it). You went and picked out paint chips! See, you can do things that you enjoy without feeling guilty.

By the way, chances are your WH picked you because all you like to do is serve. That kind can play our kind really well. Let him go and good ridence! Your story sounds so like mine 1 1/2 years ago its not even funny. My WH went after over 10 women, one of whom was 15. He was only successful with 3-4, as far as I know. But he always said I was the problem! I didn't trust him enough.

Trust me, thank God that you can get out early. 18 years and 3 kids later, it is no picnic.

However, if you read my posts, you will see that I know pain and lonliness. There are many lost dreams and it will take time to build new dreams but from what you say, you have new plans. At the moment, they may not seem like as good as the plans of your marriage but in time you will heal and you will see that you can feel happy again.

At first it will come in little spurts (an hour, an afternoon, a weekend) and then you will settle in. Give yourself time. Time to hurt. Time to cry. Time to be patient with yourself.

And pray. Pray in little spurts. Pray when you need help not crying. Pray when you need help just wanting to get up in the morning. He will hear you (even though sometimes you do not heal as fast as in a TNT movie) and you will heal.

Keep posting and keep getting encouragement.

Well, not much going on here. I guess this is just an update. I still haven't heard from the apartment but my roommate went and set up the electricity to be turned on and so forth. I wish I knew if we were getting the apartment for sure and when exactly I can move in. Friday supposedly is the day.

I start my new job on Monday. It's going to take a while to get back into the groove of that. I haven't had a full time/real job in almost 3 years. Hopefully I'll be able to swing that with the 3 classes I start September 20th.

I've been excited today about possibly moving into the apartment. It will be nice to finally unpack my car. I've been looking forward to finally getting to use all of my dishes but at the same time, they came from our registry so there's a sad feeling that comes with that as well. I still haven't figured out how to go about getting my cat back. Everytime I mention her to H he tells me she's happier than ever right now. I know he's just trying to make me feel bad about wanting to take her to an unfamilier home and away from him and his parents. I've even toyed with the idea of getting another cat (I've been wanting a second cat for over a year now, he always tried to make me feel guilty by saying that getting another cat would just make our cat feel unloved.) Still, I miss my cat. She was mine before we even moved to his parent's house. I think I'm just trying to find the way to go that would create the least amount of conflict. I really don't know if I should try to fight to get her or not. Something tells me now isn't the time for that. They take good care of her but I still miss her. She was the only one I had to keep me company when H was out training and at work. I'd always find her first thing when I got home. Everyone over there is just as attached to her as I am. I guess the answer will come sometime.