I posted earlier in the thread titled "What now? He's caught"....or something like that.<P>How do you know if your spouse truly loved the OP or not?<BR>How can you believe them when they say they did, but now they don't?<BR>Or if they say they never did love them....but you've found the written evidence to the contrary? <BR>How do they just "stop" loving the OP?<BR>I believe my H really loves the OW.<BR>Where do these answers come from???<BR> For a relationship to go on over 2 years, it seems to me there was a lot there. How long should/would it take for them to forget or get over those feelings? <BR>What if they can't get over them? <BR>Have any of you ever stayed with your spouse knowing full well they loved the OP? (even with no contact with OP)<BR>What does MB say about EMR's that are really extramarital 'love' relationships?<P>

I wish I knew!

Are there any answers to these questions?<BR>

On your previous thread, Hollym, New beginning tried to explain to you what "being in love is" - from a betrayer's point of view.<P>She said it was more like being in love with the "feeling" that came from that relationship.<P>My husband, betrayer - stated that an affair that he had which was about 20 years ago, but longer in nature and far more intense said that it isn't the real love, like you have with a real relationship like marriage. He called it not real love, but fantasy love. I would imagine the way new beginning was able to explain this - was a more defined analysis.<P>I hope she writes more about it, because it was helpful for me.

I don't know if I can answer your questions...they're not specific enough...every situation is different. <P>But, I think what matters is the actions of your husband. If he decides to stay with you then the love he once had for the OW will fade over time. You will have a different kind of love based on commitment not "feelings".<P>

Holly . . . I am an OP, and have no idea how long it takes. My brother-in-law is now happily married to the OW, and she hung in there for ten years until the divorce was finalized. My sister, I love. But even she eventually recognized that it was over.<P>All I can say is, in my situation as the OP, I truly feel that in these deepest of waters that it is all in God's hands. If I am to be forgiven for loving an as yet divorced woman, then my intentions are to hang in there for as long as it takes. So it may very well be a long time . . .

HollyM,<P>I wish I knew those answers. It is 11 months since discovery and I still don't! I gave my W the post about "did yyou really think you were on love" and she never responded.<BR>I figure I am one of the few lucky ones though. My W ended it immediately, Never showed any signs of withdrawl, and has expressed a sincere desire to rebuild our marriage.<P>The only doubts that remain is when the next bump in the road comes along and some smooth talking S.O.B. is there to pick up the slack, are we going to be back where we started?<P>Once is more than enough, if we can't learn from our mistakes then we are doomed.

Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on the "do they still love them" thing. If you read the info on this site & the books (I got them from my library), it should help you to understand what is going on from the other person's perspective. When I look back at the affair my wife had several years ago, it seems to be a textbook case right off these pages. She was "confused" and in Love. As time passed, those supposed feelings of love she felt were not that. Like someone else mentioned, it's the feeling (i.e., fantasy) that creates the high.<P>By the way, I want to repeat what someone said on your other post - confront your husband! Having suffered through 1 affair several years ago, then a cyber affair recently, the first thing you have to do is get things in the open. I found out about the cyber thing by a fluke (the guys wife found out & called me). I knew something was amiss for 3 months since my wife was acting wierd, but of course she never gave in - no matter how much I pleaded. I'm convinced that she would have continued if she hadn't been caught.<P>It sounds like you fear the consequences of confronting him, but it's better than being in limbo. You deserve it.

My H never ever loved or fell in love with the slut.That is all she was. He hates her more than I do. He never felt any passion, desire, romance or anyting else towards her.<BR>She was available thats all. I lived in another state.He was not looking for this to happen. What I don't understand is how can he<BR>srew this whore and not feel anything? He says after eight month of being alone it was better than j....ng off. So, that justifies<BR>this whole mess.(NOT). Is this possible?

Suzy! <BR>Wow!<BR>I think I would faint if my H said that.<BR>I think in reality perhaps I wish he'd say that rather than to hear that he loved he at all.<BR>After 2 years......i kind of doubt it though.<P>Things are going better for you now??<BR>I sure hope so.

HollyM, I stayed with my H while he still "loved'the ow. It was my choice, my gamble, and it would only have been my responsability had it not worked. However, knowing my H for a long time, this love for the ow was quite a strange thing. I felt there was someting else there, and that it had a chance of being worked on.<BR>It's interesting how some questions take us back into our memories. I rememeber thinking very differently than the way I acted. Not being a jealous person, and believing that a person is not an object that we can owe, I always though that if something like this would ever happen to me, I would just let go. Funny, I didn't. And I'm glad I didn't, since our marriage is now much stronger and better that ever.<BR>I like to analyse things, and after discovery I did a lot of analysing. My findings shocked me. For a while,neither of us was fulfilling each other's needs. Or at least not many.And neither of us realized it until it blew on our faces.<BR>The affair was caught as it started, and yes I stayed while things developed. This doesn't mean I gave my H green light to pursue both relationships at the same time. Just that I decided to give it sometime to find out if our marraige still had a chance. and give him time to realize, I could fulfill those needs just as well - or better, since I knew him much better than she did .<BR>They don't just stop loving the op, it's a gradual process where they slowly realize what they really want and are looking for, and that the most times, what they're looking for can be found right at home, if people can communicate and express their needs.<BR>You see, falling in love is easy, maintaining a relationship is the difficult part <BR>How do they just stop loving the op, and how do we know when it happens? Well that's the tricky part. In my opinion we have to make a couple of decisions based not on facts but feelings or instincts.<BR>First of all, they don't suddenly stop loving the op, although it is possible for them to suddenly realize that that person is not as unique and special as they felt. Usually, however, this is a long process, that includes making a choice - what do they want? Is our marriage important enough to save ? And if it is, how are things going to be worked out? - sticking to it ( withdrawl as well as many other things, can make recovery bumpy ), and understanding ( when they finally realize the real reason for the afair - not love, at least not as the main reason, but the need to have needs fulfilled, and having them fulfilled by someone else ).<BR>The growing apart inside the marriage didn't happen just like that, most probably it took a long time until things reached the point where the affair started, so it's not really possible to expect them be solved just like that. Recovery takes hard work from both sides, but it is ( or can be ) extremely rewarding. It's like falling in love with each other all over again. With the bonus of experiencing this from a more mature point of view.<BR>How do we know? well, we don't, really. Not for a while. Time , more than their words or reassurances, is what will tell us that. Time where we can see our spouses are really working with us for the marriage to improve, were their actions are consistent and show a willingness to learn from the mistake.Were communication is effective and we both revaluate our needs and how we would like to have them fulfilled. I often give here the example of when my H decided to start working on our marriage with me, how surprised he was for not seing results right away. He was kind of thinking that just because he was willing to work things out, they will just get better in a blink, It took awhile until he got the message that it wasn't so ( in fact, it disapointed him so much, that things were shaky for a bit. After all, there was instant gratification with the ow, why go trough hard work and have to wait for results with me? The answer is because this way we were addressing all the problems in order to solve them and prevent them from happening again. And that takes time ).<BR>Yes the love for the ow will disapear with time, like any other "loves" we had before getting married vanished together with its memories. But we need to help it out, by working on the weak points on our marraiges that created the need for the affair and after recovery is on its way, by not keeping the affair alive on our minds. That's a very defeating situation. We fight hard to get the affair out of our lives, and then we keep it there in the form of bad memories.<BR>Take care, and keep posting. Many of us went trough the same situation. Maybe our experiences can help you find your answers.<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited September 18, 1999).]

Holly <BR>The way my H feels makes matters almost worse. I can't explain it. He has and had no feelings for this slut. It is so out of caracter for him . He could only be with her <BR>when he was totally blasted to make him numb<BR>to the situation. He is so digusted with himself. What I am trying to say is ... if<BR>he didn't want to be there, it made him sick to be with a manipulating Whore ( I call her a Whore because she knew how much my H loves me,we were just apart because of job transfer and yet she went after my H in his most vulnerable lonely state of mind).Ok all <BR>that said it does not make me feel any better<BR>in fact I just don't get it. Why be there in the first place? I hate that piece of s..t.<BR>Am I supposed to feel sorry for H ? (Poor Baby). NO I Dont. I was alone and I didn't srew up our lives. Is my situation supposed to be easier to forgive? He is home, so very sorry about everything, will make it right for the rest of our lives, loves me more than <BR>he has ever loved me before,is totally devoted to making me happy. I say, you always loved me, we had a wonderful marriage,the job transfer was supposed to be a good thing,then WHY would you f...k up our lives?I will ask this for a long time because I just don't understand.<BR>Holly, sorry this is so long I needed to vent big time. I am just so angry. Thank you my friend for listening. Would love to get some input.

Kat, <BR>Thank you so much for your input. It helps immensely. <BR>I guess the biggest key in this scenario is the forgiveness and forgetfulness too.<BR>I'm not a very forgiving person.....and am quite "historical" in my relationship. <BR>How do you combat that and not make him feel like he's held hostage to the past or a prisoner to the history. It's not something I see us getting past.<BR>Our confrontations are rarely quiet too.<BR>I don't know. I don't know if this is going to be worth all of that effort or not. I don't think I can meet his needs emotionally.<BR>I'm just not a "lovey" kind of person.<BR>He's says I'm not nurturing, not very tender.<P>Suzy, <BR>All of this time I thought I wanted his relationship to be sex only. girl, I don't know. I can understand what your saying about the anger........and why on earth would he mess it up for that, particularly if he had to get "numbed" to do it??????<BR>You have my prayers for sure!<BR>I'm still pretty much a novice at this "repair" thing, but I am a good listener.<BR>

Hi Holly,<P>If I could say it as well, I would have written EXACTLY what Kat1 has ! (thanks kat- you write well and I appreciate what you have said as it expresses my situtation perfectly and is also a great help to me !!!)<P>...I would qoute everything she wrote again only replace her 'H' with 'me'..<P>Holly, don't allow your H feelings for the OW be a huge monster in your lives. I know it must seem that way, and I'd be a fool to say I completely understand your pain...but let me offer you this visual..this 'monster' has been stabbed. It has been mortally wounded, though it still struggles to walk. As you and your H stay together and work on your marriage you will have sent a blow of death to the 'relationship' with the OW. IT WILL DIE, like Kat said...time will do it. In the mean time you are building up a better suit of armor around your marriage. View it, as best you can as a terminal situation - this monster. You are stronger than it is. You have more power. Be as strong as you can. I have said to others that the betrayed - the one who is hurt the most - is the hero also in these situations. My H saved my life (I am not kidding) and he is my hero. He saved me with his faith in me and our marriage from a life of deep unhappiness. You can do that for your H. Keep going!!!<P>I'll pray you find strength and peace..take care of yourself Holly!!!