The answer to the last questions is yes and yes. I have seen her in the past 24 hours but nothing else. I am trying to come out of the fog. I am entirely crossed up right now. If I had the answers I wouldnt have come here again. I do not want to make or allow a bad choice to be made and have any 1 live to regret it for the rest of life. I don't have all the answers although I wish i did. I need some guidance. On one hand, I have the one I have been with. We agrred to change things and both didnt necessarily do that. On the other hand, I have some 1 who promises several things. I feel like a ball bouncing between 2 paddles. I know what I feel deep down inside, but I do not know if I am right.

The answer to the question is yes, yes I want to be married. Yes I want to be happy. I know I screwed up, again, I did fight for 5 months and at times, especially in the beginning, it was difficult. I felt for a long time things were going good. Then all of a sudden they weren't (before I talked to the OW). Although I did not intend on sticking a knife in my wifes back I did. When I say I don't know right from wrong I should have been more detailed. I know doing right from wrong, I meant what is the right or wrong decision at this current time. I wasn't always sitting around laughing, I new what was going on was wrong. I was selfish. What I did is unexcusable. Other the other side of the coin, what can I do to keep my W motivated to be happy and feel happy, aside from my huge mistake. What could I or should I have done before?

You can make your wife happy by working on your marriage. Also you can make yourself happy.

Hope you don't turn out like my WH. Everytime he is the least little bit unhappy, instead of working on the marriage, he finds another woman.

He has done this with 2 other wives before me. So if you want to be a spineless man, go with your OW, and when things go bad with her (and they will), then you can get another OW for a couple years, and if the relationship gets boring, you can jump to another one.

OK..now we might have something to work with.

Thank you for answering the q re: how much time since last exposure.

Here are some things for you to consider.
1) sex can be a very binding act. It can arouse powerfull attachments and it can actually alter your brain chemistry..sooooo

2) completely disregard your feelings.
You heard me..shut them down..give them zero audience..they have lost the plot. Your actions have caused your feelings to be what they are.

3) If one of those yes answers was to Pep..re: do you want to be married..then you are not crossed up at all. You feel that way [see above] but it is not reality. To help yourself disengage from the confusion..you absolutely must end permanently any and all contact with the OW. This will suck beyond the telling of it for you and your emotions will fight you every step of the way. Why? Despite what you know to be true [that you want to recover your marriage] you have transferred your affections from your wife to the OW. Ending it with her will hurt . You will suffer withdrawl. You will pine and dream of her. You will be angry with your wife..read up about this..it is not a sign that you have done the wrong thing in ending it..it is a sign that you have an addiction.

4) You probably wouldn't be out of line to make sure that your wife knows about withdrawl..watching you pine for the OW will be torture. Be extremely gratefull now..before you are unable to...that she is willing to help you through this. You do not deserve it. You will be nasty to your wife..and your behavior will resemble that of an angry teenager. This is textbook. Remember, you are breaking an addiction, it's gonna be painfull for you, and it's gonna be at least that painfull for those that care for you, especially if they have to watch you and bear the brunt of your hostilities.

5)Stop bouncing..decide. You are asking an awfull lot of your wife to add indecision on top of it. If you are keeping the OW in your back pocket to any degree you will fail utterly..do not put your wife through this if you have no intention of carying it out permanently.

6) Ending this A will not solve your marriage issues. However, you will never be happy in your marriage while in an affair. The marriage is work, effort, commitment, and sacrifice. The A is naughty illicit fun and no more substantial than smoke. To help your marriage be excellent..you first get the trash out. When you have a clear space to begin working with the two of you can begin to decorate so to speak. See, you can set yourselves up any way you like. You will fight habbits and such..you may have to make some big changes [sounds like you are ready to make changes anyway]. You will need counsel. There is much to be done..but that's recovery, and bub..you ain't there yet..and I would go so far as to assert that you never were. The A never stopped, it had an intermission. Until you decide that you will not be party to this disgracefull behavior..until you decide that you are an adult who is responsible for his choices and the aftermath of them...you will not have the power to be in a succesfull relationship with anyone, not your wife..not OW..I wouldn't trust you to feed my fish. I know that's harsh..but if you could see the flaws in your logic..the inherent irresponsibility and lack of accountability on your actions..and how casually you are willing to hurt other people...you wouldn't find it unjust.

7) Never for minute believe that your OW is not aware of what she is doing. She has an agenda..and she doesn't care if your wife has to bleed to carry it out. She knew what she was doing the first time she called you. She is not an innocent victim, she is a predator. Be very mindfull that she will seek out any opportunity to continue this affair. Do not give her one. Do not go anywhere [and I mean anywhere] without your wife. Do not own a cell phone. If she somehow manages to jump the fence and contact you..run away! Run away no matter how ridiculous you feel doing it. You are so very vulnerable to her and she knows it. Tell your wife immediately both that you have had contact and that you need her help because you are once again powerfully tempted. She will be upset..but better upset about the truth than blindsided with lies and a renewed affair.

I hope that some of this is helpfull to you.

You'll find some excellent advice on the MB site. Read all you can on Emotional Needs etc. and you'll have all the information you need to work on your Marriage.

A choice? OK you can choose to be with OW. You'll have no "work" to do there, no pain to confront because you did nothing to hurt her. It will be easier. I guess you know as well as I do that OW also has her flaws, even if you don't want to see them now. She would just be the easy choice, the choice that will only leave you with one big problem - guilt. And if you're a decent guy that will eat you alive, no matter how much fun OW will be and however promising life with her might SEEM now.

Or you can choose to break the habit (go cold turkey, meaning NC, no little fixes!). And do the decent thing. Do not expect your W to be all happy now and think you're wonderful. Sorry, that would be just too much to ask! You hurt her. She'll need time to get over it. It's just not fair comparing her to "easy-going" OW. OW has not been hurt by you. Believe me, if you did to OW what you did to your W... she wouldn't be too happy either!

You'll need to work on your marriage; go into counseling if you feel you're getting stuck. That means "doing-it-yourself" is not enough for you, you'll need professional counseling to help you through the "stuck". The reward you'll get here is getting over your guilt and making the person you hurt happy again. It's hard work but the reward is immense.

If you go to NC - be prepared for withdrawl effects. You'll feel bad. You'll feel you "need" OW. It's like a drug - you are the one who needs to say NO. After a while it will get better - if you stick to NC that is! No more fixes of your drug for you!
And remember - what you feel is not about OW. There are thousands of women that could give you these same feelings, including your own W. If your needs are being filled by a woman you'll feel you "need" here. If you give your W the time she'll fill your needs and make you feel like a complete, honorable person again.

Noodle, thank you so much for your input. It does help. As much as I may sound like it I am not a mean hearted person.. I did put my own feelings in front of everyone elses, I take full responsibility for my actions. I want to be a devoted loving husband. My parents have been married for 30+ years. This time is different for me. The last time I came back it was because I felt guilty / bad for my wife. I truly want to have a happy life with my wife. She has stuck through many things with me and sometimes I forget it. I allowed her calling me 24/7 to check on me before to become an anooyance although I brought it on myself. We actually were both on meds for depression after last time and I was actually able to stop taking them and feel ok, until now. I know I will never find a better person than my W. I may question myself when the OW promises she will make me happy and would do what it takes to keep me happy. I keep telling myself to beware, the grass always seems greener on the other side, but I keep letting myself try and see if the grass is greener. Can you tell me a little bit about your personal experiences with marriage? Any 1 feel free to, it helps me understand where people are coming from.

Brownhair, thank you too. I guess I should have came back here a long time ago. Before I let this crap happen again. As far as counseling goes, I went to counseling as did my W. To be honest, I have had more luck and good info here than with that. We did not do "Marriage Counseling", but we both spoke with counselers. I want to know how to get that deep need and passion for each other as well. Please do not get tired of answering my posts, it is a big help.

Dear TH,

if you know you'll never find a better person than your W - then what is the problem?

Are you selfishly thinking what if I choose my W and it doesn't work out? And then you'll have nothing? Well.. in case that might happen.. you will have your feeling of decency and you'll know you did all you could to mend and help.

Are you feeling so guilty you don't think your worthy of your W's love? Is this re-starting the A in fact a way of pushing her away so she'll reject you? Self-destructive behaviour?

Stop thinking for your W. SHE has to decide (after you have done all you can, giving her time being the least of that) if she'll want this M with you or not. Give HER the choice.

Originally posted by TRYNHARD:
The answer to the question is yes, yes I want to be married.

Then raise your right hand <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

and repeat after me...

~~~~~~

I will do WHATEVER it takes...

for as long as it takes

to rebuild our marriage

until it is a mutually happy and satisfying marriage for both of us

~~~~~~

Now do it.

Make a check list of things YOU can do, and do them. Actions speak volumes. Your words are those of a liar right now, and have no value. So keep your words to a minimum, and let your actions do the talking about your intentions.

Have you written an NC letter to OW?

If not, then write it here and let us take a look .... there are things you should NOT say on the letter to OW because it gives her false hope and leaves room for doubt as to your intention.

Do this IN WRITING and have your wife sign it as well.

Pep

Tryn..
I have never for one moment thought that you were a mean spirited, hard hearted, or otherwise bad person. I do recognize though..that each and every one of us has areas of our lives in which we are all of that and so much worse. We can't resolve that this is so..but we can be aware of it and take measures to compensate for it. When I point out for you in the bluntest possible way exactly what you are doing..it is so that you can see it for what it is [or at least see how it looks to me] not to hurt you or suggest that you are of little value and poor quality. Think of it like this..a friend is trapped inside a burning building..and you are not able to carry them out..they have to get up and move on their own..but they are passed out drunk..you have to wake them up enough that they are aware that they are in danger..enter bucket of cold water.

So although you [and I grudgingly consent that OW as well] have many fine qualities..in this area you have allowed yourselves to behave very selfishly. In fact..as I look at your recent post..the OW is appealing to your selfish nature by saying I will dedicate my life to making you happy, I will give you whatever you want ...this is not a relationship...she is drawing you in by promising you a lifetime supply of candy and nothing more. This is not the way of things. Maybe you and your wife made every poor choice in the book..maybe you did marry unwisely..maybe you were too young..maybe you are both unhappy about several issues/financial problems/etc...

You know what? None of that is truly relevant anymore. What is done, is done. You can be happy together..but with effort..if it took 10 years to get to this place..it won't be all better in 5 minutes. Want some more bad news? You will not have the skills necesary to be succesfull in another relationship either. You have not developed them. You will tend to find in life that the common denominator is you in most situations regarding your life.

Yeah, I can tell you a bit about my experiences..probably later though..
in medias res--Noodle

PS ....

Posting on the Emotional Needs board that your marriage is "having trouble" instead of comming out and saying clearly ... "I am back in my affair" is not going to help you.

If you want help, you need to be brutally honest with yourself about yourself.

Pep

Pep - love your signature!

Tryin... Is the other woman married? If so her husband is going to need to know of this affair.

The OW is not married, she is a single mother with a 4 y/o child.

TRYN...

these are the brutal realities of your affair... questions...

Have you had a vasectomy?

Has OW had her tubes tied?

Did you use condoms?

Does OW desire a child with you?

Pep

The OW has tried calling me twice today. I am in a huge panic right now. Because I was unhappy or got caught up in the feelings game, I said some things when I was vulnerable. I was so angry about a couple of things that happened between my wife and I recently that I let my anger get the best of me. During conversation(s) with the OW I said I was getting a D. Even though that is not necesserily what I may have really wanted. She also allowed me to be around a couple of her family members a few times. She also let me be around her son. I like kids so you can imaginne that I did play with him a bit. She mentioned yesterday or the day before that I came around her family and was playing with her son. This made me feel real guilty for being around these people. Her son does not take to kindly to other males for some reason. For some reason he does me. The other day he came up and gave me a hug, which meant alot more to her than it did me. Until it brought tears to her eyes. Hindsight is 20/20, I never did foresee something like this happening. So besides the guilt I have for tearing my W's heart out I am carrying around this additional guilt as well.

Pepperband, No vesectomy, yes on the condom thing, and as far as the kid thing goes, I don't know. She has said she would like to have another child in the right circumstance, that is about it. I just feel like I let myself get sucked in the fatal funnel again. Idefinately see some things about the OW that are red flags. I just do not know why I look past them. The OW has issues that honestly scare me. Things that my does not have. I don't know if I am getting caught up in the physical thing or what. I am usually strong minded and cannot be swayed by anyone. The OW has some kind of control over my emotions. I am definately not here because I feel bad for my W.

Oh please, don't make me gag. OW is giving you a big line of BS. Her child only relates to you, GAG.

She also probably tells you that you are great om bed, and her soulmate. Another GAG.

Wake up buddy, she is looking for a meal ticket.

Believer, I guess sometimes I try and see the best in people. She has said the soulmate thing and things similar to that. I thought I was smarter than to allow this thing to happen again. I was wrong. I want a normal relationship, I want to enjoy the rest of my life. I want my wife and I to make each other happy and satisfy each other again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TRYNHARD:
<strong> The OW has tried calling me twice today.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get rid of the phone. Or the caller ID card, whatever it is. NOW!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TRYNHARD:
<strong>The other day he came up and gave me a hug, which meant alot more to her than it did me. Until it brought tears to her eyes. Hindsight is 20/20, I never did foresee something like this happening. So besides the guilt I have for tearing my W's heart out I am carrying around this additional guilt as well. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes.. and why? Because you broke the NC. Let this OW go free to find herself a free person.
I wouldn't care to much for the selfish tears of a woman who doesn't care about hurting another person (your W) and messing with your mind and heart.

A woman with dignity and self-respect will NOT go after a married man. Even if she feels lonely and wants a father for her child. She'll know better than to break up a marriage just because of what SHE needs and wants. She'll want to be able to hold her head up and know she never wilfully hurt another being just to satisfy her own needs.

Should I call her and tell her not to contact me. If I don't, am I being a coward. Is it unfair of me. She obviously expected me to call or be with her. I know some are losing patience, but I am just being sincere with you all, whether my thoughts and feelings are right or wrong.