why are you not accountable for your own actions...

======== what I mean is that she can tell us how she wants to deal with it. She wants him never to see me again. He has said it is impossible. So now whether she wants him to stay married to bring up the daughter or for him to piss off is up to her. hmmmm, yes it does sound like I am a jerk. Should we then decide for her - ie, ok he is leaving you and he will visit once a week? Don't mean to sound flippant but we made a mistake yes and we will make up for it but patching up the marriage is not possible for him (he doesn't want to and he says he can't) But that's him. I am just here on both our behalves trying to figure out if there is a hope in hell that we can patch up the marriages and find happiness where we ARE SUPPOSED to. [so if you can can you pls answer my last question at bottom of post]


How do YOU stand in accordance to your inner self...and explain YOUR actions that are a direct source and cause of pain for another human being on this earth...
AND post about your unhappiness for choices you made in YOUR marriage....

========= I don't understand this particular question. You mean how do I have the gall to talk about my situation? I have a problem and I'm posting about it. I listen to reason and I am very grateful you took the time to ask me questions. But not all situations are alike and not all marriages once entered into will remain forever rock solid. What I am saying is that I didn't even get the foundation material right - so now what, build a house on sand? or wave a magic wand and hope that my sand turns to concrete (ie I love H).


this is what I don't get...
that YOUR unhappiness somehow equals entitlement ...to bring pain to her world..

======== ark, because I am a very selfish person. I never said I was unhappy about the choices that I have made. There are days when I am miserable and days when I am simply happy. Simply that I have made choices that I think are wrong and I am in choices that are still wrong (ie theA). I don't think I have any right to bring another person pain but I was weak and I did. I can correct this going forward. Me leaving OM will not help her. He will not be able to love her the way she wants to be loved. He can lie; alot of people do. Not saying it's right but somethimes we lie not to hurt another. Someone says to you I love you do you love me ? - what do you say back .. er that's nice honey, I really like you alot but I don't love you.

You ask me how I know about their marriage, well I can't be certain for sure and we (OM and I) don't really spend much time slagging off our spouses. We never go on about how they don't understand us, etc etc. They understand us perfectly. We don't go on about how we don't love them, we love them as much as we can make ourselves. I don't know for sure whether they will ever have the marriage she dreams of but if mine is any indicator - the lights are on but no one is home. And I have tried to get home but it is not happening.

We are not inattentive spouses at all. If anything, we are better than they expect. Objectively we do everything that they ask and expect - time, attention, affection, they want it they got it.

Post D Day, she said as long as he never strays again she wants to work on it. He doesn't want to work on it as he says not fair to pretend to her when one day she will find out how he really feels. He's really a gutless pig at times but that's him.

Bringing pain into my husband's world... that one is difficult. Do I live with him and pretend to love him at my expense? or do I leave him and let him find happiness with someone else. I will never be able to find that love for him. The correct answer should be leave him and let him move on right?; but under MB principles, this is not correct at all. I have to stay and work. So I am trying. I will end the A if I can but work on what? there are no LBs in sight, all needs are met, there is nothing wrong at all - just that I don't love him. How do you manufacture love?

why are you not accountable for your own actions...

======== what I mean is that she can tell us how she wants to deal with it. She wants him never to see me again. He has said it is impossible. So now whether she wants him to stay married to bring up the daughter or for him to piss off is up to her. hmmmm, yes it does sound like I am a jerk. Should we then decide for her - ie, ok he is leaving you and he will visit once a week? Don't mean to sound flippant but we made a mistake yes and we will make up for it but patching up the marriage is not possible for him (he doesn't want to and he says he can't) But that's him. I am just here on both our behalves trying to figure out if there is a hope in hell that we can patch up the marriages and find happiness where we ARE SUPPOSED to. [so if you can can you pls answer my last question at bottom of post]


How do YOU stand in accordance to your inner self...and explain YOUR actions that are a direct source and cause of pain for another human being on this earth...
AND post about your unhappiness for choices you made in YOUR marriage....

========= I don't understand this particular question. You mean how do I have the gall to talk about my situation? I have a problem and I'm posting about it. I listen to reason and I am very grateful you took the time to ask me questions. But not all situations are alike and not all marriages once entered into will remain forever rock solid. What I am saying is that I didn't even get the foundation material right - so now what, build a house on sand? or wave a magic wand and hope that my sand turns to concrete (ie I love H).


this is what I don't get...
that YOUR unhappiness somehow equals entitlement ...to bring pain to her world..

======== ark, because I am a very selfish person. I never said I was unhappy about the choices that I have made. There are days when I am miserable and days when I am simply happy. Simply that I have made choices that I think are wrong and I am in choices that are still wrong (ie theA). I don't think I have any right to bring another person pain but I was weak and I did. I can correct this going forward. Me leaving OM will not help her. He will not be able to love her the way she wants to be loved. He can lie; alot of people do. Not saying it's right but somethimes we lie not to hurt another. Someone says to you I love you do you love me ? - what do you say back .. er that's nice honey, I really like you alot but I don't love you.

You ask me how I know about their marriage, well I can't be certain for sure and we (OM and I) don't really spend much time slagging off our spouses. We never go on about how they don't understand us, etc etc. They understand us perfectly. We don't go on about how we don't love them, we love them as much as we can make ourselves. I don't know for sure whether they will ever have the marriage she dreams of but if mine is any indicator - the lights are on but no one is home. And I have tried to get home but it is not happening.

We are not inattentive spouses at all. If anything, we are better than they expect. Objectively we do everything that they ask and expect - time, attention, affection, they want it they got it.

Post D Day, she said as long as he never strays again she wants to work on it. He doesn't want to work on it as he says not fair to pretend to her when one day she will find out how he really feels. He's really a gutless pig at times but that's him.

Bringing pain into my husband's world... that one is difficult. Do I live with him and pretend to love him at my expense? or do I leave him and let him find happiness with someone else. I will never be able to find that love for him. The correct answer should be leave him and let him move on right?; but under MB principles, this is not correct at all. I have to stay and work. So I am trying. I will end the A if I can but work on what? there are no LBs in sight, all needs are met, there is nothing wrong at all - just that I don't love him. How do you manufacture love?

and ark, Am I just a basket case? Pls do not hesitate to tell me that I am wrong. but the above are the hard facts. Am thinking that maybe I should post that kind of stuff here as it can be discouraging for people who are trying to rebuild their marriages or cope with infidelity to read such arsey comments. Hope is always the killer. But maybe it will be helpful as this is really in the head of a WS and sometimes the truth is alot more nasty than we can ever hope to expect.

Karmic wise, I know what goes around comes around so you don't have to tell me. OM might dump me one day when I need him most but if it happens, I made my bed and I will lie in it. Right now I don't think the marriage will work, I am trying to see how logically I can get it to work and for someone to tell me what I can do. I don't think leaving for another person will solve this problem either. It's to do with me, not him, not her not the other him.

you are adding two plus two ...and coming up with four...
but the two you are adding...are not the same denomonators to begin with......

you may well have a crappy marriage...
you may well have had a crappy marriage...
BUT
crappy marriage doesn't equal automatic entitlement for you to meddle in innocent peoples lives...
just so you can be happy....

you can go on and on about how unfilling your marriage IS
how unfilling it WAS

but as long as you have you OM in your life...
nothing in the marriage will change...

it can't
because you are taking energy, thought and emotion from your spouse and giving it else where...

regardless of the past...we can't go back..so we can only deal with the present...

and presently your marriage is doomed based soley of your continued action of contact.
period..........

fog talk is... doesn't my husband deserve to happy?
doesn't my husband deserve to be loved..
yeah he does..
so why don't you start acting loving...
cause an affair is the extreme exact opposite of loving someone
period.
so you say you have tried to love him..yet your actions you are in are not loving..
actions define us...


why do you continue to engage in actions that hurt other human beings?

regardless of what OM says or does
why do you continue? knowing you hurt his wife..
and children inspite of your OM actions and verbalizations...

Why and how do you respect an OM that would so deeply hurt another person and his children?


why don't you take yourself out of an equasion that causes pain?

YOU??

The correct answer should be leave him and let him move on right?; but under MB principles, this is not correct at all. I have to stay and work.

Sweeney ...don't warp and use marriage builders to appease or fit in to some agenda that says...
"see I tried< and it still didn't work"..

we are not here to save YOUR marriage or give you the stamp of approval NOT to stay married...

it's not our job to fix your marriage...that's your job...but only if you want to...which you don't...so there is nothing we can do..

we are not "every marriage can and should be saved.."
in fact this site is mainly for people who WANT to try to fix and or create new better marriages ...you don't want that...
and convincing you otherwise is not my job...

BUT
no way am I buying that you are even seriously trying as long as OM remains in contact with you..
until you break contact with OM you are not respecting your husband let alone anything else...

so IF you want to work on your marriage...
based on YOUR decision...the go NO COMPLETE CONTACT....

there are no LBs in sight, all needs are met, there is nothing wrong at all - just that I don't love him. How do you manufacture love?

there's a good chance he might see the affair as a slight LB....
you're just this perfect wife with whom he is totally content and in love with....and your affair is no reflection on him and his feelings or emotions....???

where do you get this entitlement that since I never really did love him..
then I am not hurting him
or that it OK's my affair?

why not give him the gift of informed consent
why not give him the right to choose whether he wants to be married to someone who can disrepect him so greatly...

and sweeney have you ever told your husband how you feel
have you ever spoke to him about these things...
and if so what was/is his response?

you want to really try create a new marriage...
then go no contact

no garuntees ..
but it is the only place to start...

and my question is...and not judgemental or hostile

but why are YOU here sweeney..
why HERE on a marriage building site..
to appease your sense of "trying"?
cause deep down you know whether or not you are really trying...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sweeney:
<strong> You say work on the M, please tell me how to do that. Mentally I am absent, emotionally I am absent, I have been absent since day one. Recapture the old feelings, what feelings? Affection, liking, some respect yes I had that and I still have that - but love, the desire to give, passion (evne just the slightest teensiest bit would be good) - all that is missing, has been missing and I don't think you can manufacture that out of nowhere.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, first you have to go NC.

You are absent because you are still putting all of your energy into your R with OM. Simple.

When you let OM meet your emotional needs, you basically NOT allow any EN's from your H to get through to you.

You say you've been with your H for awhile. You also say that you doubt that you had no "loving" feelings for him-even before the A.

Could you be revising your history to aliviate the guilt you may have for your A? Meaning that if you loved your H AND you were having an A, you would have conflicting feelings (If I love my H, why am I having an A and hurting him?) This can cause anxiety and may make you want to change your beliefs to get more harmonious feelings (my M was never really that good AND Iam having an A = not a lot of discord or conflict about my actions and I'm able to live with myself with what I'm doing)

Remember, no one held a gunn to your head to stay with you H through the years. If you were unhappy, you could have left, or spoke up so your H (then BF) could remedy the problems with you.

As you let your H meet your EN's (instead of OM), your feelings of love will return. How did you fall for your OM to begin with? He WAS MEETING YOU EN's!!!

Thanks for posting AlittlebitWiser; and why are you a little bit wiser, have you been in this same place before? I don't know about this emotional need thing. I stopped respecting my H sometime ago, if I ever did. I don't respect him and I don't trust him to do what's best for us and I don't trust him to make the correct decision if we should ever get into trouble. I think that for all that to the world he seems to be a nice guy, I think that is actually because they have nothing else to say about him. I think that for all that he is patient and kind, I think it is because he is just generally an indifferent sort of person. Nothing and nobody really bothers him. He listens and does all the superficial niceties but I don't think he knows me or what makes me tick and even if he did - he wouldn't be too bothered. I have told him all this before. I have written him letters saying I love you in a way and I want to really love you but I need you to do this etc etc and nothing. He reads it, says yes and nothing ever happens. All the boxes are checked when it comes to externalities but he wouldn't even begin to fulfil my emotional needs if he tried as that would mean him changing his entire personality. I have even told him you're so passive you're driving me nuts, I 'm going to look for someone else. Nothing... so maybe that is an EN that is not met but I don't think it will ever be.

Dear ark

"but why are YOU here sweeney..
why HERE on a marriage building site..
to appease your sense of "trying"?
cause deep down you know whether or not you are really trying..."

no, as I would really like to know what you mean by trying. How do you make yourself love another? You can make yourself think that you are happy and content and that everything is fine but sooner or later (and it was sooner in my case) I got a wake up call. But then again, maybe you're right and I have given up trying and am trying to find justification for leaving.

OM told me that the most difficult thing was coping with discovery and the guilt of how hellish it would be for his wife etc. Now that we have been found out, he doesn't want to hide anymore. It's the same here with me. If I have my own D-day, I am going to leave.

I came to marriagebuilders not knowing what to expect. I think that this forum is a wonderful source of support for BS but I don't think that the view of marriage by some is realistic as it does not take into account that people make mistakes entering into a marriage in the first place. Is the thought that deciding your marriage was a mistake in the first place a form of self deception? I don't think so as I have always known deep down inside. Am still working through this and who knows what will happen.

However, I am telling H about the A tonight though as I think he should know.

Sweeny,

You said "However, I am telling H about the A tonight though as I think he should know."

You also said "If I have my own D-day, I am going to leave." in the previous paragraph.

Does this mean you are going to tell your BS, and then leave?

sweeney

again and again..if YOU want out of your marriage ....then get out...

You don't have to convince me it will or won't work...
all you HAVE to do is decide....
I don't think I have once told you to work on your marriage...
I know I have and will say that if you DECIDE to work on your marriage..you need to cut the OM out of your life....

the affair..
is a whole other issue and ballgame..
totally seperate
your continued participation in causing pain is something you have to face...
at the price of your happiness??
If that's where you place your happiness...
Is it worth the gain no matter who you hurt?

will I ever support that your affair that hurts children and his wife a good thing..
that YOU play a role in that persons pain inspite of what OM tells you about his marriage, wife, life etc...

that your actions and involvement are a direct link to her pain

nope....
can't do it...


unhappy marriage..your choices....either try to make it better or end it...

unhappy marriage...entitlement to an affair..so you feel good....
not really

but I don't think that the view of marriage by some is realistic as it does not take into account that people make mistakes entering into a marriage in the first place.

sweeney..this is the irony..
YOU don't want to rebuild your marriage
fine..
then why are you at a marriage building site?

do you go to AA boards and address people there for promoting abstinance...??

Or perhaps you go to an AA board claim you have problem with alcohol and complain that no one there supports you in your choice to drink??

Isn't that what you are doing...
you don't want your marriage..
no one here can make you work on your marriage...

so you use the OM wife and child's to fullfill your happiness

and you use your husband to fullfill something in you as well...

and somehow we here are responsible for that..
or we here should fix that for you
or we here are what..??

what do you want from us...

ARK