So WW told OM about my proof. He has begged me not to send them to GF via my WW.

My WW actually said " they don't need you to make their lives even worse".

I replied " I haven't done ANYTHING to make ANYONE'S life worse. Two people are responsible for that, and I am not one of them".

Why can my WW not see that OM is desperately denying her ??

I also said "so I cannot contact them but you can stay in contact with OM?"

WW said "Thats different".

This fog is unbelieveable.

I feel like asking her to get OM to ask me himself not to send proof.

I could take his call on my conference phone so my WW could listen in.

I Will, of course, still let OM GF have the proof when it feels propitious regarding their bereavement.

I read this that the A is in its death throes and only my WW can't see it.

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

My WW actually said " they don't need you to make their lives even worse".

Missed opportunity:

"Yes, I agree! They don't need anyone to make their lives even worse. Let's both leave them completely alone."

Always agree with the foggee .... then twist it your way.

Don't argue. Agree ---> then twist back toward common sense.

Pep

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Excuse me?

Your WW and the OM have had a discussion and asked that you NOT reveal any proof of the affair to the GF?

It is "different" that their contact continues?

Sorry Bob, but I don't think they realize the man you are and the steps that you have taken to stop this affair. They are not in any positin to bargain with you. You hold all the cards or letters in this case.

They are using the death of the OM's son to manipulate your actions. They think that by grasping at this angle, they can get you to conceal the letters and in effect, help them continue the affair.

The OM should be looking to his own family for support and instead, he is contacting your w and discussing the letters. Have you confirmed the death of his son? It just shocks me that he would take the time to discuss these letters and your actions when his son has just been killed. Shows how unbelievably selfish and self absorbed he is...

Their asking you not to tell the GF would be the reason I would go ahead and tell her ASAP. I initially felt that you should give them some time due to the death, but they are trying too hard to cover their actions and they need to be exposed.

Don't let this tragic event even further delay what you need to do. The fog seems to be getting even thicker and they are more desperate to salvage this pathetic relationship. Call the GF today.

Bob, I wouldn't allow them to be involved at all. I would not bargain away your best interest and that of the GF. It is in your best interest to show her the letters.

The GF has every right to have these letters, since this is about her life too. They have no right to demand that they be withheld from her. That is certainly not in her best interest.

Your WW and OM are only begging you not to because they understand that this level of exposure will seriously endanger their affair. And that is your job, Bob, to endanger their affair.

Don't let them stop you, Bob!

Hang in there, Bob, and carry on. You are doing great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Bob, the title of your post is, "OM begs me thru WW not to send proof to OM GF."

All the more reason to do it.

Do it today.

He buttered his bread, now let him lie in it.

Don't hesitate just because the timing is to his benefit.

WAT

Hi BP!

Well, I've given this some thought and will go out on a limb here based on this new thread...

I think that the OM and your WW are using this "death" to preserve what little remains of their A...

I mean, really, how could a father be so hard hearted as to worry about a couple of silly love letters when his oldest son has just been "killed" in an auto accident???

I'd call the OM's GF, and ask her when it would be convenient to drop off the copies... I suspect that the OM is stringing his GF along with his son's "death" as well...

It's obvious that the OM and your W are still in contact... that contact HAS to end before you and your W can start rebuilding your M...

At this point in their A, they (OM & your W) are willing to do whatever it takes to "preserve" their "love"...

I say don't worry about the OM's problems... he's a threat to your M... if his son actually was killed, then it's very sad, but that doesn't change the fact that this son's DAD is attacking YOUR M.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Bob, my thoughts are that if you not giving the letters to the OM's GF were that important to the OM, he would have made sure to TOTALLY dump your WW and have absolutely NC with her whatsoever - if nothing else to placate you, and distance himself from both of you.

However, he has not done that. Neither before, nor after, the tragedy in his life. To me, that means that he wants you to do this "favor" for him, but is unwilling to do anything for you.

Therefore, I would expose. I guarantee you, if my H's OW would have persisted in her actions and words to my H after D-day, I would have exposed to EVERYONE that I told her I would expose to - including her own mother, her new boyfriend, and our entire Scout group. NOTHING would have been off-limits for me.

Your WW will be furious with you. When your real W is released from teh alien ship, however, she will understand your actions and forgive you - IMO. That is what happened with my H. He didn't want me telling ANYONE of the A, even just to support me. He was protecting HER. Now, he doesn't care who knows, who I told, and understands all of my actions. He doesn't necessarily AGREE with everything I did/have done, but he understands where I am coming from.

Why does your OM expect you to do more for him than he is willing to do for you??? Hmmmm? Hmmmm? Hmmmmm?

That's my question. Let it all come out now. How long will you drag it out for? Are you willing to give OM several months to grieve before you take action? To some extent, you cannot let this event change your course of action. Your WW and OM could have changed your course of action with their actions, but they chose not to. Now you choose.

SS

My WW is already furious with me. Trouble is....If their son has died it is a deeply callous act for me to send thsi proof.

Yes, I agree with all what you say, and the fact that OM is worried about this final 5% of exposure after his son's tragedy shows how shallow he is etc etc BUT....

...I must hang on to my humanity here. The GF's life is in the toilet today as well as OM. With my proof it may push her over the edge.

What are the two most stressful things that can happen to a person ?

1) the loss of a child
2) discovery of an affair

It is not cowardice but decency that stays my hand for now.

God drive my heart and tongue as you have all through this mess.

No I will not wait weeks. hours or days but I will do what I think is HUMANE and RIGHT.

I must be a beacon of decency, calm and welcome right? Well let me breathe and decide in prayer the most effective , decent path for my actions. At worst OM is stewing in fear for a few more hours wondering if I will send the proof.

Of course I will, I just haven't decided when yet.

Thank you.

Absolutely positively proceed with exposure to the GF.
It's a shame about his son, but he never showed any respect for your family or feelings.

Bob, you'll know when is the right time to tell the GF. I would think definitely after the funeral. Without a doubt tell her. At this moment I am not only thinking about you, but about her also. As I think I told you before on another thread, I WISH that people who had suspected H's A had come to me. If they had solid proof I would have welcomed it.You are giving the GF the opportunity to know the truth and choose the life she wants. THAT is the decent, kind thing to do. Bob, I am so glad you are gaining strength through all of this. You are doing great! CV

Bob, I understand, and I am grateful you are seeking your answers through prayer. You do need to do what sits right with you.

I pray that you may find your own clarity today, and in the days ahead.

SS

Hi Bob,

If I were the girlfriend, I would want to know. I think you should tell, but maybe after the funeral.

Bob,

It isn't callous, it's life and it isn't always fair, as you well know.

Tell his girfriend, send her the proof. Make copies of your copies and hand deliver them to her.

God Bless
Doug

From experience, the death of a loved one causes people to do really stupid things (like an A)...expose, Bob. He's using your wife as a crutch right now....she'll be told she's the only one who "understands" him and it'll be "them against the world" blah, blah, blah. My dh told ow the exact same thing when he lost his mind after his mom passed. They are still sharing secrets (obviously) and any secrets between then two of them will be viewed by them as tres romantique (in Earth terms: so fogged out, it's a wonder there is any oxygen left in the atmosphere). You and your ww HAVE NO IDEA what kind of relationship the GF and OM had with the poor son. Sure, it's a horrible sitch, but you only know about his feelings for his ds by 3rd hand info from a known liar anyway (2 known liars if you include your ww). Talk to the GF. Extend your condolences...feel out her responses, then ask if she still wants the proof. That's all you need to do....but she MUST know that WW and OM are still in contact no matter what!

God bless you and your familia!

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> My WW is already furious with me. Trouble is....If their son has died it is a deeply callous act for me to send thsi proof.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Baloney.

This could be the best thing you can possibly do for them. OM needs all the damning news possible so that he has no where else to go but onto a healing track. Do not deny him this opportunity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>What are the two most stressful things that can happen to a person ?

1) the loss of a child
2) discovery of an affair
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I happen to know how this feels simultaneously and it was more linked than this slimeball's coincidence.

I not only survived, but have prospered - and I wasn't responsible for either one. He'll survive and he needs to get the full dose, for his own good and for the good of the rest of you whom are involved. Period.

2x4 * Thwack!*

I don't see where anyone else addressed this issue, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

I think you should do what you think is best for your M, not necessarily what will make you feel the best in the short run.

Have you considered that by sharing this information with the OMGF, that it could break them up, thus allowing OM to be "available" again. With a wife who is still pretty foggy, is that a condition you want to create? It seems like it could backfire on you fairly easily. It could also make WW feel even more sympathetic to OM, and view you as the "bad guy".

Keep the marriage in mind, and turn away from the thoughts of vengeance.

~sm~

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Simple Minded ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by Simple Minded:

Keep the marriage in mind, and turn away from the thoughts of vengeance.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is so far off center ... I wonder why you wrote this?

Even though our opinions differ about when to expose, we all are motivated with trying to save Bob's marriage, none of us are are motivated by vengeance. Bob included.

What motivated YOU to write such a sentence?

Pep

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

SM that reasoning clouded my thinking for a week before I exposed to OM GF. My WW said 'thats it! we're through! You've thrown away your last chance with me !". And here she is, still with me, teh affair cumbling before her eyes.

Truth is SM that lies and untruths are the fertilizer that affairs flourish in.

If their 'love' can survive the brutal truth that WW and OM have lied through their teeth to everyon eincluding each other and themselves for months them maybe they should be together.

I do not want to have my WW back only because the OM GF doesn't know the full facts.

The proof I now have adds nothing to what I have already exposed to her other than dates and some handwritten' I love you's and 'we had sex'.

No new facts for her then, just reinforcement of what I already told her.

OM denied my WW to his GF, and even got my WW do deny HIM to her. Some 'soul mate' relationship they have there.

Fact is if by my sending this rpoof my wife leaves me for him, then so be it. I'd rather be hurt by truth than flattered by a lie.

I WILL send her the proof, I am just debating the timing right now. Whether to take NOW or whether to wait for the funeral at the weekend.

My WW will hate me for this but really, she hates me for buying her flowers, for being loving and demonstrative with the kids, for buying her champagne, for painting the house.....

She's gonna FOG hate me whatever I do. And telling OM GF is the right thing to do not just for my M but its just, well RIGHT that she knows the facts.

I see that they have no relationship to continue right now my WW and the OM.

And the OM GF reconciled with him despite my exposure. no telling she will choose to believe this proof either. Or perhaps he will reconcile anyway as she loves OM.

In any case I will give her the proof. I am just debating when.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What motivated YOU to write such a sentence? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because, IMO, this could go either way, and Bob needs to consider ALL possible options prior to acting. I have his best interests at heart, as well. I want his marriage to succeed. But I see the possibility, and IMO it's about a 50/50 proposal, that this could blow up in his face. Even if it ends the A, how does it make him look in his WW's eyes? As the guy who drove away someone she loved? Even though she doesn't really love him, that's how she sees it right now, and it could effect how she views him for a LONG LONG TIME.

I said, "Do what you think is best for the marriage"...and that's what I meant. Bob knows his wife, his entire situation. I was merely pointing out a possibility of his actions.

I also know that SOME Bs's would kill for an opportunity like this...NOT to try and save the marriage, but to try and get even. This shouldn't be anyone's motivation. That is what I was trying to say...I can see how my statement seemed like a judgement of Bob, and I didn't mean it that way. I apologize for the poor wording. I don't know Bob...I'm not judging him. I hope whatever he does results in restoring his M.

~sm~