Getting plan-B'ed by my WW is giving me questions.

The day after the sparrow served me, I told her I could not read her emails any more and blocked her. Since then I have heard nothing from her. That was a month ago.

I'm struck now by how childish and impractical this silence between us is.

It's making me a little freaked to hear nothing from her. I've sent her a few things - flowers, a couple of nice cards - and I wrote her grandmother a letter which I'm sure was shared with her. No responses. I know she has decided which man she is absolutely loyal to now. I almost wish she'd contact me and say "Leave me alone, you are repellent to me."

I understand that the silence has an obvious benefit for her - not seeing me or talking to me frees her from a major source of uncertainty and guilt, and makes it easier for her to get away. It removes consequences. It makes her life one big sleepover party and vacation. She's got no reality, no routine. She hasn't for months.

OM has his first day in court tomorrow, and car4love's lawyer is going to make him look like a total jerk.

I'm trying to figure out how both of these two, these conflict avoiders, are going to be able to keep it together while strangers discuss their infidelities. I actually don't know if the sparrow's will come up when we have our first meeting. We have no custody under dispute and this is a no-fault state, but I suppose my lawyer may bring it up at least as an aside.

Any comments about how good WS are at handling the official divorce process?

Maybe I should post this in the divorce forum. Haven't been over there yet.

GC

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

i don't know but i hope you'll let me and others know. i didn't really get a lot of help on the divorced/divorcing forum but it's worth a shot.

how is your timeline? meaning you got served so is there something that you are supposed to do in a certain amount of time?

i'm right there with you bud, i hope it comes up to that my H is having an A but w/the NF i don't know. stay the course and do what you can for as long as you can, RR

Thanks, RR. My response to service is due on Wednesday. I'm meeting with my lawyer tomorrow to decide what we'll do.

I think the affairees have somehow managed to pull their sick relationship back into the shadows, but I'm not sure because I haven't heard from her, her family, or her friends since I was served. I'm in the dark. Except for one thing. I know for a fact that the affair is on, and that the two are shacked up again. Sickos.

GC

You told her you would not read anything from her.
She sends you nothing and this surprisies you because?

You tell her you will not read anything she sends you but it's okay for you to send her stuff?
And again, you expect a response?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I told her I wouldn't read EMAIL. That was a boundary I had to set. Doing it has protected me from untold horrors, and I do not regret it. In the same message that said no more email, I invited her to write, call, or visit me any time she wanted. I have not emailed her either in this time.

I'm not surprised, but it's a struggle. I'm only trying to interpret the silence. I'm inexperienced in getting dumped by my wife and watching her turn into a crazy person. I've read everything there is to read, and it still confuses me.

GC

((((Hugs GC))))

WW is still residing in foggiland, hon. There is nothing you can do but keep on keeping on. I'm so sorry.

- Kimmy

That's the bottom line, ain't it Kimmy?

I need a cooler wife. Mine stinks. Worst wife EVER.

I think she might stay in foggiland. Lots of people have tried to pull her out. She's heard it all and still likes it there.

GC

dbl

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

Yep bud...it really is.

You know what? I spent nearly 2 years with the words, "sucks to be you," playing in my head every night and I was directing it to myself. Sha! I dunno what happened, but all of a sudden I realized it sucked to be WH (at the time he was WH). He was the one with the demons...they weren't mine to deal with, and I didn't need to answer to them. HE was the one that to the eyes of the world was a nasty, ugly person (no matter how good looking he is). You know what? It SUCKS to be them - OP and WS. You are a better person, GC. You DO deserve better...if your ww can't be a better person, so be it. You've done the right things, so you hold GC's head high - 'kay? You are worth better!

- Kimmy

Kimmy, sorry I got pitiful for a minute there. Catches me off guard sometimes.

I know some of the strategies they'll be using in car4love's legal case, and it will suck to be OM and the sparrow a little bit more very soon. They're a couple of little kids playing at grownup games, and OM is going to get a better feel for the rules tomorrow. If all goes well, he's going to feel about an inch high.

GC

Just talked to sparrow's old best friend on the phone. Yesterday I was in her area for a dog show, and I left a message asking if it would be okay to drop something off.

I didn't expect a response, but tonight the friend called me back. I tried hard to keep the conversation as positive as I could. She's still very upset with the sparrow. Maybe more than ever. She asked what's going on, and I said I don't know, haven't heard a single chirp from my WW in a month. I said, "I don't know what those two are up to," and she said, "I don't think they know what they're up to either."

I was glad to hear that, but like I said, I avoided nasty subjects. I mentioned the sparrow and OM are shacked up, then caught myself, said sorry, I don't want your reward for calling me to be a bunch of venom. She was relieved and appreciated that an awful lot. Staying off nasty subjects is very valuable when you want to maintain connections with these people. You sort of have to plan A everybody on the WS's side of the aisle.

Shoot, talking to WWBF made me feel better. I feel bad for her too; she definitely feels she's losing a friend.

GC

Way to go GC. I know what you mean about not being nasty. I was with my SIL this weekend and she made some comment about how stupid WH (her brother) is being and I replied with some bitter comment. I don't know if she noticed but it definately did not make me feel better and I caught myself before I said any more.

So when does the baby, I mean puppy, arrive?

Thanks, Kloe. I'm glad to hear you still have some contact with the ILs. I'm thinking of paying SIL a visit at the restaurant where she works soon myself, though I don't know how she'll receive me.

Bad news on the puppy front. The breeder flaked and decided the puppy I was supposed to get was too good to sell, so now no puppy for me until the end of the year, probably. A small disappointment.

Tomorrow is all about court and lawyers for me and OMW. If anybody reads this, remember car4love in your thoughts and prayers tonight. She's got a rough morning in store. Lay one on my crazy sparrow and OM while you're at it.

GC

I will post one on the prayer thread.

Thinking of you,

Shul

Thank you Shul, now I see where you are.

GC

Hi Graycloud,

I have some thoughts for you, so I may as well type them out.

On puppies -
They are a lot like marriages.
You get one and at first it seems like every thing is easy, and natural, and not much work. After a while, you realize there are things you need to do if it is going to be good for both of you. They give a lot of love, but there is care involved - and protection. You have to meet their needs, or they are not happy.

On the whole - I like dogs. My golden retreiver has been gone quite a few months now, and we miss him. Just remember the care part, and make sure you are good for it. Anytime you go for more than a day, someone gets to watch the dog.

On Your ongoing struggle -
This is MB, and we hope your marriage can be saved. We hope the plan works, and we hope your W gets it and doesn't compond her error - but.......

But a very big part of this is about you.

What will you learn from this?

Have you addressed the problems you had - your own weaknesses?

If the sparrow had issues with you, have you taken care of them?

Are you doing the best plan A you can do?

Are you protecting your own feelings so that you can do the plan long enough to have a chance of success?

Is there anything else you need to do (as part of plan A) that you haven't done yet?


I want to see Graycloud as a hero. With a hero it is not so much what happens outside, but what happens inside, and how he personally reacts to the external stuff. Are you where you want to be internally?

Hope you got what you wanted out of your trip.

SS

Hello, SS. I've been trying to email you, but I can't seem to get everything down in the time I have.

I've worked very hard to identify the weaknesses in me that led the the vulnerability in my M, and I'm trying to understand them and learn new habits. Training yourself is hard.

For those first couple of months, I wasn't gnashing my teeth wondering "How could she do this to me?" I was asking myself, "How could you have let things get here?" It wasn't bad between us. There were other circumstances. But I was not taking care of my M, and I was not being the man I need to be.

I've talked with the sparrow about my changes a little, and I've demonstrated them. She has said lots of very nice things. She's said I'm a great person, that I'm kind, and that I'm wise. But her behavior has not changed. She's locked me out.

I don't know if I'm doing the best plan A I can do. I have not initiated any contact with the sparrow in a while. I don't know what to do. This isn't a textbook plan A / plan B situation. She isn't on the fence. She is living with OM, has served me divorce papers, and has cut me entirely out of her life. I want to take advantage of opportunities to interact with her, if I get them. But I don't get them. I haven't seen her in over a month. Maybe I should reach out to her, see if she'll meet with me, no strings.

I would like it if there were some way I could make her feel that I admire her and find her beautiful. These are important needs she has. But honestly, I don't admire who she is right now, and I don't think there is currently any way for me to fill those needs.

I'm also not sure my feelings are protected. Honestly. I don't know how to tell. I have avoided some specific things to keep from damaging them, but whether they're okay, I don't know. I think they are safe for now. My feeling for her is so vague and academic. Maybe I need to reflect on the past, on things she's done that strengthened my love for her, even if it hurts. Not sure.

Thanks, SS.

GC

BTW, I wasn't suggesting you needed to do more, I was wanting you to think through how you have done, and how you are doing now. You have some decisions to make in the near future, and it is good to know exactly where you stand when you make them.

In a way, I wish you were still emailing her. I think one of her most important needs is conversation, and when email was cut off, I wonder if she gave up.

I realize you left open telephone and in person, and I hesitate to bring this one up because I seem to recall that she was big on discussing separation in email and that it was hard on you, but consider starting that back up if you think it will meet a valid need of hers. This is as long as you are in plan A.

Since you haven't officially gone into plan B (from your end anyway) please tell us what you think her most important needs are, and perhaps we can help with some ideas on how you can do that from a distance.

Been praying for all of you.

SS

SS, to the best of my knowledge, here's how I'd order the Harley top ten from the sparrow's perspective.

1. Admiration
2. Affection
3. Domestic support
4. Conversation
5. Recreational companionship
6. Sexual fulfillment
7. Financial support
8. Physical attractiveness
9. Honesty and openness
10. Family commitment

I did not neglect her greatest needs, but I did not provide them in ways that made her "feel them". For instance, I often told her she looked great, and that I found her beautiful. But OM gushed over her and made her feel romanced. That worked, and what I did seemed less sincere to her.

Since she left, email was not providing a source of conversation for either of us. It was just a way for her to send grenades at me in her evil robot persona. Strictly the exchange of information related to financial matters and living requirements. It hurt me badly to get emails in this businesslike tone from her.

I'm not in a good position to provide her biggest needs right now, which is a real pickle.

GC

the only thing i would say as far as starting the email thing again is that you said you were going to block any emails from her. so i kind of feel like if you started email her it would seem like you are playing a game. if you want to be true to your word, then she shouldn't even try to email you back. always follow your words/actions. also remember about the harassment question and what she may perceive as harassment (even regular mail).

GC, you know how my situation is right now and i just want to say that you are doing a good job and hope you can continue to do whatever you can and what's right for you. i have always maintained that i was going to do everything i could as we talked about on my thread. i still have lots of fight left in me but i don't to be peceived as the big B and possibly taint my H's feelings for me in the hopes that there might be a reconciliation even after the D. i am still of the mindset that things will not work out between him and the OW and he might come back but you know what? i can't honestly say that i wouldn't be in another relationship when that happens.

my M has not been good over the past few years and i've been physically separated from my H since last october and having been dealing w/this A for 6 months. i have needs too. i can see some writing on the wall and i have tried and will continue to maintain that i am still a married woman but once the D goes through, then i feel that God has made it plain to me what my next course of action could be. what am i trying to say here? is i didn't think i would be where i am at mentally and emotionally as far as letting things go. i couldn't even picture myself w/another man and it made me ill to even think about it. but God has allowed me to be healed through all this and i know that he wants the best for his children.

keep doing what you can, when you can, for as long as you can, and hopefully you will know when it's time for the next step. God bless and continued prayers to you, RR