Much has been said on this board about the absolute need for No Contact. I just wanted to underscore that point for anyone trying to negotiate these waters. I am 2 1/2 years past my W's ONS and probably a year removed from the EA (same OM). My W is in regular contact with OM through weekly pool league and our marriage is as recovered as it's going to be while contact continues. I made a decision not to be in the groups company anymore as I got very tired of playing the fool. This decision has been very hard on W and will eventually become embarrassing as she gets tired of making excuses for my absence. Her feeling seems to be that just give it more time and I will eventually be "healed". But just last week I was golfing with a close friend when my 17yr old son called my cell. He asked if I knew where my youngest daughter is. I said did you call mommy? She said yes but OM answered mom's cell. It was pool night so I knew W was in his company but it actually hurt physically when my son told me that OM answered his mothers cell phone. My friend had to literally hug me and hold me up. While the last embers of the EA have died out the fact that she is still in contact as if nothing happened is very hurtful to me. The message is very clear that I'm not worth giving up the OM for. Over the weekend she said if I happen to be in the teams company again that I shouldn't mention a story she told me that was confidential about one of the team members. I replied that I would not be in the teams company again so she didn't have to worry about that. She replied "oh, that's a shame but I respect your decision". I told her she might respect it but she'll never understand it. Tomorrow off to IC to help "me" get over it. Amazing. As Steve Harley told me "it's like trying to heal with the knife still in your back".

WOE

walkingoneggs,

You kidding ourself if you say your M is in recovery ! ... There is no recovery until OM is out of the picture, it is enablement now.

Pain is given but misery is optional ...

I am surprised that SH didn't make you go to plan B.

-rh-

redhat, you have kept the same signature line for a long time and that is something I read early on here. It has been my creed. I will know I have done my best. BTW, I never post in recovery so I have no illusions. But the situation is simply at a standstill and sadly I have contributed to it. It's not nor has it ever been a Plan B situation. It was always a one sided A. This guy wouldn't come to her funeral. Just a player who has been with 10 married woman. I have complained bitterly about her calling OM and finally I think that has ceased for the most part. I really don't know what to do. My IC suggests that I'm co-dependent. But I still love W so I keep on going to the best of my ability. But I do realize this is a cancer in my marriage. In fact Cerri recently remarked that continued contact is one of the devasting problems that leads to divorce.

walkingoneggs,

I know you have your own time and reasons to stay this way for that long. I loved my wife more than anything ... I literraly crossed 7 seas to be with her and left my family behind ... continue contact get her the second time. I figured out 5 years later !.

When I found out it was continue contact I gave myself time to do plan A follow by plan B then Dv. I never recomend anyone to put up with A ! ... even Bill Harley stated himself. Now I find peace and I am excited w/ possibility of finding someone to build a long lasting happiness. It is a clean slate and it is a gift from my exW.

Listen ... you lost her already to OM, close the deal and let her choose. Let her go to find her happiness ... let her makes her A as real R. You seek yours and you know you won't find it in her at this point of time, she is still WW.

It is the time. If you live in CA which has 6 months before the Dv judgement ... start Plan B and filed at the same time. This will close this chapter of your life and ready to open a new one.

just my 2¢ . -rh-

WOE, thought of you from time to time, knowing that you were staying away for a reason. don't know what to say but just continued prayers to you, RR

WOE, I put out a call to you several weeks ago. I've missed you and have wondered what's going on.

As I've told you before it is your call. This is the thing. Just like redhat said, your W is a WW, I think she also is in the EA. Maybe OM isn't, but your W is holding on to it for dear life.

WOE, I want to give you a great big hug, I really do. Why? Because as I've also said you are truly one of the good guys. Your W is just not respecting you. Why is the OM answering her phone?

I just read a little book that was recommended to me for a year now. If you haven't read it, maybe you can pick it up. It is called "Who Moved My Cheese?" The whole book is about change. How it happens whether we want it to or not. Our Ss As did just that. It brought a major change into our lives. The book is about what we can do when that happens. Do we wait for life to just hopefully return to what it was? Or do we have to move with the change?

Is any of this making sense? Honey, it's been
2 1/2 yrs. Is what you've been doing waking your W up, or is it just allowing her to keep doing what she's doing? Ultimately we can't control our Ss, just ourselves. There's a line in this book that I keep asking myself. "What would I do if I wasn't afraid?"

Anyway WOE, I'm glad you're back. Maybe you never left, I just haven't seen you. Good luck friend! CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong>My W is in regular contact with OM through weekly pool league and our marriage is as recovered as it's going to be while contact continues. I made a decision not to be in the groups company anymore as I got very tired of playing the fool. This decision has been very hard on W and will eventually become embarrassing as she gets tired of making excuses for my absence.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And what might those excuses be?

I'll bet they don't include, "....my husband doesn't want to be in the same vicinity as me and slimeball here, whom I'd rather be boinking!"

Should I conclude that exposure is not yet completed?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While the last embers of the EA have died out..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I admit I am not up to speed on your story, but it seems that an affair is still very much in progress and you ARE playing a fool!

WOE, are you saying, "Woe is me", both as a moniker and an attitude?

RH, I'm actually in Pennsylvania but it makes no difference as the idea of moving on is not being considered at this point. Am I stupid? I don't think so, I simply love her enough to put up with what I put up with. I think I work hard to stay in love with her and if that changed dramatically I would rush back to SH and ask for another plan. He just told me that OM isn't the issue anymore but that I should not be in his company as its humiliating. His plan was to continue to add weight to the relationship. That is what I am doing. I know you have come a long way and I'm glad you ended up in a great place. Just like your sig line I will know I did my best.

RoughRoad, thanks for checking in. I just took a break for a little while as well as had some computer problems but I'm back for now. Hope this finds you well. I know your story hasn't really improved and I also will pray for you. Thanks and take care.

CV, I missed you. I've seen you posting on what looked like a girls thread. You and SS mostly so I didn't want to interupt. The line from the book is very appropriate. Fear is what got me here. I didn't have the stones to do what was necessary at the beginning. Is it too late? It's never too late. I will just continue to monitor love bank and make sure it doesn't reach danger zone. I didn't see your message and I was starting to feel like nobody missed me, so Thank You. I'm taking 11 and 15 yr old daughters to a concert tomorrow. W will be out at pool instead. So I just do my best to hang in there. It doesn't seem so bad to me but when I write it down I can see how ridiculous it really is. Hugs, WOE.

Hello,

Sorry but you are not in recovery as long as she is still in contact with the OM. The OM answers her phone? Her priority is quite clear. She has put the OM over your marriage. The end result is that she goes to all of the social events and stays in contact with the OM without you. I am sure she will tell her friends that her husband is a shy reclusive individual who is anti-social.
Apparently there are no consequences to her actions. I wish you luck but unfortunately you are in denial. No contact means No contact. She continues to disrespect you and your marriage. I know that this is harsh but it is the truth. I wish you luck.

WAT, you are right in exposure has not been done. W confessed to ONS and being naive I thought I'd protect her reputation. She has made me regret that decision. Now I don't know if that is the right move anymore. NC is certainly the right move. Walking on Eggs is how it felt at the beginning. I was very scared to lose my family. I don't think it is my present attitude. She isn't going anywhere I am sure. Would she rather be boiking OM? Probably still true. I can tell you one thing about my sitch that might help explain my patience. I was compulsive gambler until 12 years ago. There were two d-days with the gambling. The result was we spent the first 9 years of our marriage in an apartment. Wife watched as others passed us by. Doesn't justify her behavior but we've seen tough times and have so far survived. I think you can tell I still love her very much and am not prepared to do anything too radical. I respect your opinion and would welcome your suggestions. You've been here quite a while and I'm sure have good feel for what works and what doesn't. Thanks for stopping by.

Bryan, I don't disagree with anything you've said. In fact you've softened your approach some and I appreciate that. Yes it's gotten silly. I'm not as pathetic as I seem, just in love. When I reach my limit I'll know it and at that point be willing to up the stakes and take a few more chances ie. exposure etc.

walkingoneggs,

You are not stupid at all ... you know the deal and you are willing to scarifice yourself for your family ... I did the same.

You had made a mistake a long time ago and you are willing to fix it ... she made a mistake but she is unwilling to fix it. It is not about the mistake but what one would do given the situation.

I was counseled by SH also, one thing I would tell you ... he will keep pushing for plan A DOORMAT as long as you could take it. Actually I am not to found of his approach, Willard H would say something different. Call his show, Williard H would tell you to go plan B ASAP.

Look ... this is 2x4 to take home ... You have lost your family to OM. Continue sacrificing this way would only hurt you kids !. What do you think your kids see you as and what do you teach your kids ?. That was one of the lines that I drew and she crossed it. Also this enabeling would not bring you anywhere ... "insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". I suggest you to expose her A ... it is never too late. Then goto plan B.

It is time to put a closure ... JMVHO -rh-

WOE, I think this is what I'm feeling about your situation, which others have expressed here also. I don't see your W changing. I'm not seeing her squirming at the thought of you not going to the events this summer. It almost seems like it has simplified her life instead of complicating it.

Only you know if your plan is working or not. However, you posted a while back that your W might have a drinking problem. You also have mentioned at least one late night call to the OM. Going to bars where he hangs out. I hate saying this WOE, but how has your W made an effort to really respect you and your children and end this A? If this OM is the scumbag that you say he is, how do you know he isn't still pursuing your W, or leading her along?

You said you are monitoring your LB$. That's good! I guess you will know if and when you have had enough. I'm just not sure your W will change without any consequences for her actions.

Finally, I think I wrote this to you once before, but it's worth repeating. When will the payback for your gambling addiction be over? Is this your penance now? Do you deserve to be happy? You know that when you heard the OM answered her phone it was a kick in your gut. Your friend had to hold you up. How much more of this are you willing to take because you screwed up in your life? I know you love your W, but are you really helping her? Just a question. She's hanging out at bars, won't give up this dirtbag, and your son is already embarrassed by her drinking. At least the one post you wrote indicated that. What will make her be a responsible adult again?

Sorry if I am making assumptions here. Feel free to set me straight, OK? Just wishing you the best! CV

You absolutely have to have her cut off contact. No pool league, no contact, etc. 100% NC. My Marriage didn't begin to rebound until FWW gave up 100% contact. With No Contact, you have a chance. Good Luck.

RH, you are right about SH wanting more Plan A as long as I can take it. I have certainly mismanaged things from the beginning. But I can't go to Plan B unless I am prepared for any eventuality. I'm simply not prepared. I have certainly learned a valuable lesson from this.

CV, everything you said is correct. The drinking, the scumbag and taking me for granted. Am I still paying for gambling I don't think so, it's just what her life has become and nothing to do with me. What I am doing by staying away is absolutely going to put pressure on her, but more importantly it takes me away from the pain to some extent. She will simply view it as spiteful but she is no longer alone in driving this train. I feel I am at least in the engine room with her now. Yes, I deserve to be happy and so does she. Right now neither of us is happy. I know she is tortured by this as I am. At least in some way. I wrote this post to show others the pain of continued contact. I didn't expect to get such hard hitting advice. I appreciate it and respect where everyone is comeing from. Got some real seasoned veterans all saying the same thing. Hard to ignore that.

TSTBC, I have no doubt what you are saying is true. I know that recovery won't even BEGIN until contact ends. I just know it in my heart. That day will be interesting if it ever comes, because W will assume I got my wish and everything will be fine. But that's when I should start MC all over again. I only want to go through this one time.

To all of you, Thank You.

WOE, I am so confused! You say you know recovery can't even begin until NC, yet your W has continuous contact. Is it that you think she is coming close to making the decision of NC on her own? If she is addicted to this OM then she is getting her fix on a regular basis. Will she voluntarily give that up?

I would never presume to tell you what you should do. I struggle with my own questions and decisions every day. I do know that I wouldn't have lasted 1/4 as long as you if my H was in contact with OW. Is what you wrote above saying that you are not ready to give an ultimatum to your W because you are afraid she might make the choice to leave you? Somthing someone said in my group supervision once might apply here. It has stuck with me over the past 18 months. She was talking about how we use avoidance as a defense mechanism to ward off whatever pain we don't want to face. When the avoidance becomes more painful than the situation, that is when we can't avoid any longer. I guess you are not at that place yet.

If you can, pick up the "Cheese" book I told you about. CV

CV, thanks for being supportive I really do appreciate it. Please really consider the fact the OM was never interested in W. Just a conquest; period. She has the tremendous need to be looked up to and these "sub people" are just the ticket. The entire team is comprised of misfits. Everybody has a story and none are typical family people. So it's a lot of her need to be independent as she felt she spent many years in my shadows. So it's sort of mid life crisis, affair and finding oneself I suppose. I do not worry about her leaving. Absolutely not. I do not worry about the affair rekindling. I just need/want her to wake up on her own and say WOE thanks for standing by me all this time why I figured this out. What is true and honorable etc. I will make a point to get the book. The line you mentioned about fear speaks volumes to me. But for me not participating is enough for now. It protects me and I'm sure she has no idea of how resolved I am. There will be no exceptions and I assure you it will get heavy for her. When she hears from cutie petootie that MY secretary is having a party and he's invited, she'll ask why aren't we going. I will tell her because he's going and that I confirmed that with secretary. This kind of stuff will get very difficult to ignore. While I haven't exposed the A, I can tell you there is nobody who doesn't know she's had or having one. I am starting to understand that the weight on the WS is heavier than that of the BS. Still more empathy from me. Anyway I don't regret all the hard work I've done and I hope you continue to do the same. There is no regret knowing you did what you thought was right regardless of how misguided it may seem at times. My heart is always in the right place during this battle despite the LB's and DJ's etc.
God Bless.

Walkingoneggs, I am too facing the same situation. My W had two EA's and one PA over the last two years. The PA lasted for a few months and ended about a year ago. My W still calls the OM, primarily because she loaned him $6000 that he never repaid. She always initiates the call, never the OM. In fact, he frequently does not return her call. I had found an old letter back in June she had sent to him and he replied to. She had been in love with him for 14 years (that's about how long we've known him). He replied that he did not feel the same way. I found a recent entry in her diary that she made after she last talked to him. It said she missed him. I don't feel good about going through her diary, but everytime she calls him, I feel compelled to snoop.

The few things that are keeping me going are that he does not seem to want to make contact with her and at least she lets me know when she calls him. There has not been any physical contact since D-day.

lostboy60, I'm glad someone can relate to this situation. No two cases are alike. It's encouraging to see your post. It goes to show that sometimes people need something in their life even when it's not real. My W has convinced herself that these men (yes their was a prior EA/PA) are pursuing her. Nothing could be farther from the truth. So for me it's hard to hate the OM. And I can't tell W she is throwing herself at them as it's too insulting to someone I've love for 22 years and has given me 3 children. I would just encourage you to hand in their for her and give her the chance to re-discover you. The payback could be awesome. But even if there is no payback we will know that we stepped up and were the lighthouse. That is something to be proud of. And finally if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't you want, hope and pray that your spouse was waiting for you when you finally snapped out of it? I have always understood that this could have easily been me who made this mistake. And once you're in an A, if it an addiction. Don't underestimate that point. Pleasure to meet you.

WOE

walkingoneggs,

Just a thought ... if OM is a player like you said, then isn't it better to push your WW to him ?. This way OM has to put up with her and let him run away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-