I want to tell my WW that it is now or never because I feel like allowing her back at any time enables her to be more wishy washy. Input?

Well, I think in general ultimatums are more about "power" than boundaries or standards.

What YOU see as wishy-washy, may be HER legitimate decision-making process.

And why is today or tomorrow so much more important than a month from now? I think you are experiencing impatience, more so than "allowing" her to have poor behavior.

IMO, the best thing you can do right now is allow her to make her own decisions, in her own timeframe. Then they will truly be HER decisions, for HER reasons, and will be more likely to "stick" in the long run.

Hang in there. You have come a long way in a short period of time. I say, let it play out naturally, and keep doing what you have been up to this point.

SS

I try to think about it not about the specific sitch, but by the feelings associated with giving/reciving an ultimatum. How would you feel if someone told you,

"If you don't do this, I'm going to have to do this?"

Now, conversely, you have to think of your own feelings, also. Have you reached that point where you feel you have to give an ultimatum? Are you doing it to spur her force her into action, and if so, what if she doesn't do what you want?

Juke...your ww has made the rumblings that she's considering coming home...do you really want to FORCE her into it? Would it be a LB to do so?

- Kimmy

Ultimatums are always bad IF you're bluffing. They can still be bad if you're not, though.

You didn't really answer my 2uestion on your other thread, though. Are you in counseling? (really, marriage coaching). Do you have an agreement with your W that you will BE in counseling with a PLAN for recovery?

I wouldn't make the ultimatum you want 2 make here. Personally, I'd rather see her come 2 you with some definitive plan before coming home. This would be better for both of you than just getting her home or else. You 2 need 2 resolve your issues so you can minimize the chances of this happening again.

-ol' 2long

Are you in Plan B? You need to let Plan B work. If I had done it, I would have went dark for 6 months. The A will take its course. And it's even better that they are living together. All BS' think is that the two love birds are in their fantasy love nest, but that is far from the truth. Your WW is finding out that everyone has their own issues/problems/whatever. No one is perfect. Living together is the perfect atmosphere for them to start LB'ing each other.

If you are in Plan B, just let it work on its own. It doesn't need any push from you. Did you already send a Plan B letter?

Juke:

Remember, 2, that if you didn't care about her, you wouldn't be upset by what's happening. And if you care about her, it's in your best interest 2 let her make her own decisions and come home because she WANTS 2.

best,
-ol' 2long

The main thing is the new mortgage. I would like to avoid the additional costs if she is coming home. But, guess it doesn't matter that much.

I was about to go into plan B, but then she wrote me an email saying how sorry she is and how much she misses our marriage etc. So now all the way plan A-ing.

I wouldn't say now or never.

However..I also wouldn't put my plans on hold while she waffles.

It was probably your moving on process that shocked her out of her fog initially..if she gets nice and cozy she'll probably go back in. I think the two of you may recover..but it won't be immediate and you need to get on with your life while leaving the possibility to recover the marriage as an option.

If and when she is ready to commit at the level you need her too..and if you are still willing at that point..the two of you can decide what to do about it..it will be a mutual and fully ripe undertaking. If you truly need a decision from her right now...and you plan to hold her to that decision..be prepared for it to be "no" or a very reluctant and half hearted [read doomed] "yes". In my opinion this would be a step back. Your mileage may vary.

Juke, I've set a deadline for my WW. If she offers to come back any time before then, I'll try to take her. If she offers to come back after that time, no can do.

If you say now or never it's like having reached that deadline. I don't plan to do that until I'm more confident that my feelings for my WW will be all but dried up. You've been in this about as long as me, and I am skeptical that your feelings are gone. I've been married for a longer time, but are you certain you're ready to shut the passenger door and drive away from her forever? That's a big decision, and you might still be too emotional to make it.

GC

As was previously stated...when you give an ultimatum you must be prepared to follow through. Are you prepared??

An ultimatum is a final stand, it's non-negotiable and there are clear consequences.

Yeah, I will drop the ultimatum idea and just keep moving on like I have been. GC- I definately still have feelings for her, but am getting annoyed with her a bit. Is she just making sure I am there? Trying to pull me in as a backup plan for convenience or is she sincere? Who knows?

Being annoyed with her and feeling like her backup plan, hm. Might be time for plan B. But maybe right now is not the time to stir things up. I say let the current drama play out, and in the meantime scrape together a few bucks and call the Harleys. Juke, I do not believe you can't pull together the money. Don't be a cheapskate with your life; it's a measly $185. Borrow it from a friend or a family member if you don't have the cashflow right now. Somebody you know can spare it for you. Don't be too proud to ask for help, cuz. The Harleys' advice will give you confidence about the path you're on, trust me. I've only spoken to JH one time, but it was worth it.

GC

An ultimatum means you will accept one way or the other. In this case, it means divorce or reconciliation.

When you are ready, you will only accept one way. You will simply not want to be married to her. Then you divorce.

Rather than trying to force the issue, wait until she “wakes” up or you decide to divorce.

Juke,

I would be very careful about this one. Are you ready to hear an answer you're not expecting to hear or you don't want to hear?

Like my therapist told me, when you push someone sitting on the fence, they usually fall the other way. You just might push her into NOT coming home. Are you prepared for this? Whereas, if you continue to live your life & SHE approaches you about moving back in, it will be from her heart, not b/c she was forced into making a decision.

I don't see how allowing her to move in any time as enabling. I see it more as respecting her decisions. She just might see it that way too.

This is just my opinion from having dealt with the ultimatum question from my WH:

To me the purpose of an ultimatum is to force another person into a particular decision. The actual definition states it is a final statement of terms in diplomatic negotiations.

I don't know about you, but I'm not in diplomatic negotiation with my WH on certain things. My example is if he goes to see the OW in another state (for the second time!) he may not come back. There's no negotiation there. It is a BOUNDARY. Plain and simple. It is one I have created and there is no negotiation surrounding it.

Negotiations intrinsically involve someone in a position of power. Are you telling her now or never to force a reaction? Or is it because there is no other option you see yourself able to live with? If she chooses never, is it really never for you? If you don't mean never, it's up for negotiation. It's not the final offer. It's a power play to push a reaction. That is how I view an ultimatum. Setting your boundaries is perfectly acceptable and healthy. Forcing a reaction that you may not be willing to deal with is not.
I hope that made sense.

Yes Faith, great explanation. You are totally right. The fact is that I would most likely take my WW back under the conditions I have stated even several months from now. So ultimatum is a bad idea. I do not want to burn the bridge.

Juke, sweetie, you need to put your dear wife on the back burner right now. Continue on with your life, and don't be too available. For sure, don't give her the impression that you are waiting around at home for her to make her decisions.

Go work out, and pump up those muscles, go out with friends, stay very, very busy.