Hey all,
Short update. WW went out of town on her first work trip since DD last weekend. I saw intenary on flights and she called faithfully everyday. This in the past wouldn't have happened. I feel WW is really trying to make our marriage work, but i am still having trust issues. I don't want to make her feel she in a fishbowl with me questioning her every move. She has even stated that this would be hard to live like this and that she is being open and honest with me. So far i have not had any doubts with this.
WW came home Sun. I went into her suit case to pull clothes out to wash and rolled up in a blanket where a pack of Hot Dogs, Mayo and Mustard. I quickly left stuff the way they where because i thought that she again lose it because i was searching for something but it is bugging me. WW stayed in Hotel for business trips why would she come back with these in her suit case.
Question is should i ask her or just let it go?
If i ask she will know that i was in her suitcase and think i was trying something and the whole trust issue will come up again. Another LB. Don't need this we both are in agreement to move on.
Kind of strange why that would be in her suitcase. Clothes smelled ok not smoke noticed.
Any suggestions.
Jets

jets -

Since d-day is so recent (if I understand your post correctly), I would ask about the hot dogs in a blanket.

Very strange.

Take care.

sss

Thanks for response SSS
I know WW would like to move forward on this whole trust issue. I feel we have been progressing but i keep making these types of weird discoveries.

jets, she shouldn't expect you to trust her at all right now, but she does. And you shouldn't. So what to do? She says, "I'm being open and honest." But if she loses her will and has contact, you can bet that the openness and honesty will end, at least for a while.

You need to get on the same page as far as having a recovery plan, but first she probably needs to kick OM.

Maybe announce when she's there that you're doing laundry, and see if you can't go for the stuff from her suitcase right under her nose. If that works out, you can say, "MMMM, HOT DOGS", all pleasant and fun-lovin', and see how she handles it. If she doesn't want you to fetch her dirty laundry out of her luggage, she's likely got something to hide.

In general, you can be a bit of a snoop during withdrawal by just doing all the domestic work. You'll fulfill an EN while the WW is sulking and moping, and you'll have your nose in everything with a perfectly good excuse.

"What's the matter, babe?! I was just cleaning out the underwear drawer. I sure dig this black thong..."

I've read that WW's often fail at NC a few times before they're done. Mine failed once, then was done. With me.

Make strong plan A, bro.

GC

<small>[ August 24, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

Thanks for the reponse GC,
Unfortuanately she had already put items in fridge. Thought I would ask while looking in Fridge and ask Hey where did the extra Hot dogs and Mustard come from. See what her answer is? If it is made up and will approach her on what i know.
I hate doing this have a feeling it is going to be another night of her crying and being upset and stating that she tired of everyone seeing her as having the affair and no one seeing i also had a part into why our marriage went south. I Have admitted to some of this to her and family and counselor.
I think she has the bad case of guilts.
jets

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jets:
<strong> I hate doing this have a feeling it is going to be another night of her crying and being upset and stating that she tired of everyone seeing her as having the affair and no one seeing i also had a part into why our marriage went south. I Have admitted to some of this to her and family and counselor.
I think she has the bad case of guilts.
jets </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello Jets, It seems to me that you are wee bit too apologetic here. Those are odd items to find in a suitcase and you have every right to ask why they were there. I know that NO man likes a crying, upset wife but the reality is she DOES need to answer any of your questions directly.

You are pussyfooting around to keep the peace in your home but that isn't right. If you can't ask about hot dogs in a suitcase, then how on earth are you going to ask harder questions? I feel like you don't quite understand your rights as a betrayed spouse here. It is ok to ask, just don't do it in an accusatory manner.

Have you talked about Radical Honesty together and how has she responded? It is up to her to rebuild your trust by being open and honest with you. For you it is the same, but in a slightly different way when dealing with potential A related questions.

Think of it as if dealing with a child. When the child answers your hard question and the answer is not to your liking, is it appropriate to fly off the deep end? Of course not, you most likely will sigh and go into your parental spiel as to why what the child did/said was wrong, correct?

It's the same with the WS, correct her foggy answers if need be, but do it calmly and with authority. Stand on your right as her husband to expect truth and forthrightness from her. Expect it and if it is not given, you must explain why you expect this from her.

It has nothing to do with what a less than sterling husband you were in the past, that obviously hardly negates the fact that she had an affair!

She seems to be trying to deflect responsibility onto you, but in reality the choice to have an affair was hers, and hers alone. Don't let her hold that over your head as if it was the most logical excuse. It's not.

Peace at any cost is not peace at all, Jets. Ask what you need to ask. NO tiptoeing, ok? You have the right, after all. KB

Jets..

I always carry some sort of food like that when I am travelling if the hotel has a mini fridge to avoid the necessity of standing in line for a $5 bowl of cheerios. So just having it isn't really questionable. I do think that this has served to starkly illustrate for you though...that there are some pretty big gaps in your recovery plan [and yes, you do actually have to plan to recover...failing to plan =planning to fail and all that]

Your wife has broken your trust and you should not extend it carte blanche. For a time everything that she says is subject to question...this is part of dealing with deceit. You have very little way to tell if she is dealing with you honestly or not unless you are able to investigate unhinderred.

This does not mean that your wife should expect a lifetime of interrogations <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , that would be intolerable for anyone. It means that you two will have to restructure things so that there are no dark shadows to investigate. That you are both so fully integrated into each others lives that a second secret life would be a near impossibility.

I hope that the two of you have familiarized yourselves with the MB concepts...they are just the tools for such a task, imo.

Thanks KB,
Have deicided to head to your advice and ask straight out. At times and i hate to keep dwelling on the affair even though i know it is pretty much over there is still a lot of lingering questions i feel she just doesn't want to answer because she doesn't know how i will take it.
Made some additional discoveries that she forgot about over the weekend. Discoveries that took place nearly two years ago. confronted her on them and states that they where nothing and she had forgotten about them and they meant nothing. NO doubt why my trust factor is down a few notches now.
jets

I know it's hard Jets, but eventually with practice and time you'll get to the point where it's not nervewracking for you to ask questions and not nervewracking for her to answer. Radical Honesty as a policy in your marriage is really sort of an ultimate freedom.

She's not there yet, and yes you are right she is worried how you will take things. Be a safe person for her to talk to, watch the impulse to overreact to what she says(hard!)and you'll see her open up more. KB

I don't want to make her feel she in a fishbowl with me questioning her every move.

??? Well, if she feels like she is living in a fishbowl that is part of early recovery experience for the WS. It goes with the territory of having a track record as a liar during the affair. The lies have a consequence, and not being seen as trustworthy is one of the consequences.

Well your D day is too RECENT for you to trust her.

Your should not trust her yet. She has not earned the trust coin as of yet.

TRUST is NOT like winning the lottery ... it is more like a PAYDAY and MUST be earned.

Tell her you are working on trust issues, but that her trustworthyness must be proven by her willingness to live in the fishbowl for awhile. Tell her you have no desire to be an affair police officer in your marriage for the rest of your life, but for now the trust bank account is in the negative balance.

You are NOT doing this to make her miserable! You are doing this to protect yourself from further damage.

If she does not understand this, she's not ready for prime time recovery.

Pep

thanks for replys noodle Kb and pepperland,
trust is still a big factor for me. Even though i think she is being honest with me. D/t the recent discovery of Dday it is hard for me to totally accept at this point. Believe me i don't want to be affair police and have to live my life monitoring and questioning her motives or everymove. I hate this.
KB i think that one of my problems when i discuss this is that i over react. i need to watch more closely and not love bust over something.
Will aproach her tonight about what i found noodle hope your right might be nothing and just something she packed in there to save time and money. If that is the case i will let it go and move on for the night.
I know she will again be upset because it will feel to her that "Here we go Again!" another long night of discussing our marital problems but will try to end it at 8 tonight.
Thanks for advice will
let you know what turns out
jets

Okay...

Might the mayo and mustard be a cover story for the hot dogs? I mean, away on business, and hot dogs... well, kind of straight forwards similair to something. I know that might be strectching, but, I guess that is a good thing.

It's a very strange thing you've encountered, and, if you just step back for a second and look at what you've walked into, I think you gotta laugh, pretty dang hard. I mean, that is hilarious. I can't imagine opening a suitcase and finding that. Then, to open the fridge and find them in there. I mean, man, meat ain't suppose to go warm, and then be put in the fridge, that just ain't healthy. I think that is where salmenela (sp wrong, and I'm too lazy to look) or ecoli or something comes from.

I'm right there with ya on confronting questionable circumstances. It's so hard just to broach the subect, and they get so tense when it happens. "uhm, we need to talk...." Oh my wife hates those words.

I would try the approach of admitting your fears, and tell her you opened her bag. Honesty from you right now is important. It sets the bar. Someone doing nothing wrong can sometimes even be endeared by a protective spouse, you never know how it will come across.

You are in no position to trust her yet. She knows this. I told my wife I was trying to trust her right now (immediately following dday) on faith. It had no ties to her, but I was trying to trust God would protect and watch out for me. It's getting better (~10 months) but not there all the way yet.

Jets...

I'm pleased to offer what could be just as likely a scenario that results in hot dogs and hot dog paraphernalia being in her suitcase that is not affair related...but lets not hyper focus on this..

What is more important is that the two of you do not have in place a plan for just what to do when these situations do arise. You need to be able to freely have your needs met in this area. It isn't optional. She needs to bring the ball to you, not make you chase after it. She can not at this time prove herself to be trustworthy..the only option she has to to prove her actions innocent and trustworthy, one at a time. Please discuss this with her and come up with a strategy that will allow you to seek the info you need. Do not tip toe around it. You have a right to expect this..and your marriage demands that she willingly and eagery comply.

Jets,

"I hate to keep dwelling on the affair"...

Dude, I am afraid you have just BEGUN to dwell on the affair.

Of course you don't trust her. She has to earn your trust again. Might take a very long time!! Some people on this board are still not trusting (fully) for 2 or 3 years!! There is still that tiny, little voice in the back of your head...
k

Jets, you're only 10 days out? Holy crap. You've got to be ready for the long haul. Your effort to rescue your M has to at least outlast that mayonnaise.

She's going to feel guilty and you're going to have a hard time trusting her for like a year or two, minimum.

Have you read After the Affair or Not Just Friends?

GC