You are right on with that "consent" point. I dont' think I've ever heard anyone express the 2rmoil it causes 2uite as well as you did.

I was going 2 go see my dad this weekend, and pick up some stuff from storage, but it looks like I don't need 2. I'll probably putz around the house instead.

with beer.

-ol' 2long

2long, YOUR WIFE DOESN'T DEFINE YOU. BTW I picked up the book Passionate Marriage so if I'm not around for awhile you'll know I'm busy ready this epic. I consider myself Mr. Wonderful, I really do. And I have to because W is never done kicking this dog. Nothing is enough. I agree with you wholeheartedly about not being stereotyped. I cry at sad movies and my W thinks it's foolish. To me, its foolish that she misses the point of the movie or the moment or whatever is so touching to me. It's a long wonderful like and either she's going to get back on board or you're going to wear out. No doubt about that but you got to keep going as long as you can. And, yes, you have helped many, many here including me. Stay Cool. Talk to you later.

Not that it's cold here in ol' soCal (not the weather, at least), but this is relevant:

"Undertow" -Genesis

"The curtains are drawn,
Now the fire warms the room.
Meanwhile... outside...
Wind from the northeast chills the air.
It will soon be snowing out there.

And some... there are...
Cold, they prepare for a sleepless night.
Maybe this will be their last fight?

But we're safe in each other's embrace.
All fears go as I look on your face.

Chorus:
Better think awhile,
Or I may never think again.
If this were the last day of your life, my friend.
Tell me, what do you think you would do then?

Stand up to the blow that fate has struck upon you?
Make the most of all you still have coming to you?
Or lay down on the ground and let the tears run from you,
Crying to the grass and trees and heaven finally on your knees?

'Let me live again, let life come find me wanting!
Spring must strike again against the shield of winter!
Let me feel once more the arms of love surround me!
Telling me the danger's past, I need not fear the icy blast again!'

Laughter and music and perfume linger here
and there... and there...
Wine flows from flask to glass to mouth,
As it soothes, confusing our doubts.

And soon... we feel,
Why do a single thing today?
There's tomorrow sure as I'm here.

So the days they turn into years.
And still no tomorrow appears.

Chorus:
Better think awhile,
Or I may never think again.
If this were the last day of your life, my friend.
Tell me, what do you think you would do then?

Stand up to the blow that fate has struck upon you?
Make the most of all you still have coming to you?
Or lay down on the ground and let the tears run from you,
Crying to the grass and trees and heaven finally on your knees?

'Let me live again, let life come find me wanting!
Spring must strike again against the shield of winter!
Let me feel once more the arms of love surround me!
Telling me the danger's past, I need not fear the icy blast again!'

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Was there ever a time she listened to what was in your heart?

SS

SS:

Yes, but it's been so long I can't remember. Way more than 13 years.

I dunno. Sometimes since D-day it's seemed like she might be listening (and I was certainly talking better than ever before). But when an acid remark undoes her apparent "getting my point" from before, I start wondering.

-2long

ol2...basic question for you...What makes you stay?

LINY:

Sometimes I don't think I know. But then I realize that I do. 30 years. We've known each other 30 years. We have 2 great kids.

We really even get along pretty well. Not the best all the time, but 30 years of bonding has amounted 2 something I can't describe that will be permanent, I'm sure, whether we can hold this M 2gether or not.

I also "know" that the "distraction" of the A will end just like the A has ended. Someday. Like they all pretty much do. Just that it will take longer for her because it was so long and such a relatively-sustainable "fantasy" (they never lived 2gether, heck never said ILY 2 one another for that matter) compared 2 most.

I've learned 2 be the most patient person I know (except for K, but I don't really know him). Not the way I wanted my "growth" 2 go, but it's probably what I need.

YOu know? her comparing me with Kobe Bryant yes2rday was apparently completely unintentional - at least it wasn't intended 2 be so hurtful. I intend 2 talk about it with her soon, but last night I realized I needed 2 calm down before I talked 2 her, and last night she was in a pretty good mood (this morning, 2). I need 2 call Penny 2, but realized I couldn't in that mood yes2rday. Last night, I worked on watching my own thinking and experimented with calming myself down. And it worked.

Anyway.

-ol' 2long

Thanks. Sometimes I have to look through binoculars to get what you are saying--your humor and intelligence hide your pain well sometimes. Figured, asking straightforward would give a straightforward answer. Figured right.

Q,

Sheesh too busy to post lately, and had a moment so I wanted to reply here.

I'm glad to hear your wife doesn't want the same old marriage from the past. But does she know what SHE needs to differently so she gets a better result? NO! Because she only wants to do what is comfortable for her to do, and that's the problem. I know you know this, it's just that I wish she were MOTIVATED enough to DO something different.

Her answers are already within her covered up by the garbage life has dished out to her from well before you were married. She has to sift through the garbage in order to uncover the answers/lessons she needs in order to be a happier her.

She's not on anti'ds is she? Those have an unfortunate side effect of lowering libido. Same as depression lowering libido. And I think she is depressed.

I'm proud of you for hanging in there while you're trying to find the answers to solve this puzzle.

Hi Sue !!!
Waves, and smiles.

Oh, Hi 2long, I'm easily distracted.

Now, where were we?

Oh yeah,
So how come you don't need to see your dad? Or the things in storage were there, but now you don't need them?

Ever sell the van?

How is your dad anyway? Still hanging in there, or going slowly down hill like me?

Where do I get all these questions from?

I think 2long hangs in there because the man that is 2long has integrety an he knows it's the still the right thing.

I won't have net access over the weekend, but I'll be thinking about you, wishing you were with us.

Hope you get lots done on the house.

You going to put mirrors on the cealing in that big upstairs room?

Glad you waited to talk to her, talk some more this weekend.

Have you asked her about her dreams lately?
Not the property, or who she wants as a friend, but emotional dreams? Dreams of closeness, and happiness? I know she has them. It might hurt to get the answer, but you want to talk. You are a much better listener now.

You're a a good man 2long. You need to know that.
All the best my friend.

SS

<small>[ September 03, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Great 2 hear from you, LINY, Csue and SS.

I've got 2 prepare a presentation on one of my favorite puddles, so I'll get back later this afternoon. If you're already gone, SS, I hope you have a nice weekend.

Heck, I hope everybody, especially the folks in FL, have a nice weekend...

...I just looked at weather.com, and that sucker's like 2wice the size of FL!

-ol' 2long

"Hi SS"!!

You ask such great questions of Q...the ones that make you think!

Q, you now have puddles on Mars??? Too bad the media is caught up in the election - we just don't hear other-worldly news anymore!!

Sue,
You have a lot of insight, miss having you around as often, but do what works best.

SS

2long,
I am leaving shortly, W says it's time to help her finish packing up.

We won't do much serious playing, maybe ride a mountain bike, and a few short hikes. Then we will sit around and play board games as an excuse to eat chips and dip, and drink home made rootbeer. All the married kids are coming, it's good to get together with no stress.

You have fun too, and get lots done.

SS

CSue:

Not recently! But I get pretty excited even about the billion-yr-old stuff!

SS. I musta missed you. Went 2 give my presentation, and the guy said it was at 10am, but he didn't get the word out of the time change! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Pretty hilarious. I was on the same floor, different lab, all day yes2rday and this morning. He could have just walked over. I wasn't ready at 10! Gonna try again next week sometime. But I was able 2 attend another meeting that was scheduled at the same time. We got a lot done.

-ol' 2long

CSue:

"I know you know this, it's just that I wish she were MOTIVATED enough to DO something different."

You know? At various times, I've heard her coin the various cliche phrases we all use (the good ones, I mean). Like "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". And sometimes she seems 2 know what they mean, similar 2 what we talk about when we use them, but sometimes it sounds like morphing them 2 justify her past choices.

Sometimes I can see a trend emerging. I'd like 2 think that it isn't just wishful thinking on my part, but I think the trend is in a positive direction, not a further self-destructive one.

"Her answers are already within her covered up by the garbage life has dished out to her from well before you were married. She has to sift through the garbage in order to uncover the answers/lessons she needs in order to be a happier her."

But if the garbage is 30 or 40 years old (or older), does that mean that it might take years longer for her 2 sift? I have accepted that she probably needs 2 do this, just like I'll have 2 (via Guy Pettit's forgiveness process, for example). And so I have less trouble with her "digging" with her IC than I did. Wish she'd give me a little more slack re working with Penny. I'd rather work on dealing with my past via something like the forgiveness process than once a month with a counselor and work with a coach on planning for the fu2re as a H with a family.

"She's not on anti'ds is she? Those have an unfortunate side effect of lowering libido. Same as depression lowering libido. And I think she is depressed."

I don't think so. But I do agree that she's depressed. Has been for YEARS. Shows in her seemingly constant choice 2 be pessimistic, even when there's reason not 2 be. But that could easily be due 2 her A starting so long ago. Hard 2 remember the times she was ac2ally cheerful before that.


SS: My dad is doing okay. As well as can be expected, perhaps. He 2rned 87 on Pep's birthday last month (also Ringo Starr's B-day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). I can go up there another time, and I think I'd rather be around the house this weekend. Haven't sold the van. Gonna have 2 have my sister wholesale it, I'm afraid (if anybody here's interested in a van conversion with VERY low miles, email me at the address below! - end of classified ads section of post!).

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Had a good, but busy weekend.
No major blowouts with W, but a couple of minor ones. Mostly communication problems, AS USUAL.

How about you?

Better?
Worse?

SS

Up

SS:

Pretty much the same ol' stuff. Planning our trip 2 Italy in a 2ple of weeks. Working on the house.

Got a research proposal I need 2 get done soon. 2ple of presentations coming up.

JL: if you're out there, I 'spect 2 be in your neck of the woods for the December meeting. You going?

-ol' 2long

It's not that I want a report, it's just that I want you to understand that people care about you.

Make some romantic plans for Italy. If it's not every womens dream, it would be for a high percentage. Ask Pep if you need ideas, she is better at that than I am.

SS