My W came by this evening. I wasn't expecting her until Saturday, but I let her in anyway considering I gave her the Plan B letter today. The beginning was somewhat awkward, no conversation just here to see the kids. I stayed in the living room and watched television while she visited with our S. A real sad point was when my D came home and barely paid her any attention at all. I think my D is beginning to really resent her mothers actions, she's 14 and she is well aware of what's been going on with her mother and OM. There are no secrets.

After my W visited with my W for say 45 minutes she came out and sat down in the living room. I calmly went over the visitation agreement that we talked about and if she wanted to see the kids more than just on Saturday that is fine, but I'd prefer we have a schedule. We talked about the M and she gave me the same vague answers and made the same references about missing the children and feeling bad being away from them. I maintained that she is not M to our children and she can see them whenever she likes but on a schedule that we both can agree on.

The biggest turning point in the conversation was when I confronted her on the issue of looking for an Apartment with a locator service and I asked what her password was. She was shocked that I knew she named it after the OM. My W continues to gloss over her feelings regarding OM and before my biggest mistake was believing it was not as serious as it was. She had me conviced before, but not anymore! She had absolutely no explanation why she named her new password to her account after OM if she was trying to get over him?

SILENCE, followed by I DONT KNOW.

Well I do. At least I have an assumption. You are not in the mindstate to let him go and that is why we must be apart. I cannot allow my heart to be broken repeatedly while you bounce back and forth on whether you want to be in a M or not. I further went on to express my love for her, but that I cannot subject myself to this type of a M. When the kids came up again I was frank with her, I told didn't pull any punches, I told her how my Son hasn't asked about her in days. I told her how my D seems to be highly upset with her. In short, it seems that they are getting used to the idea of no mommy around, and I know this hurt her to hear, but the truth is she hasn't been around much in the last couple of years anyway. Coming home at 2 and 3 in the morning, sneeking to spend time with OM and other activities that detract from our family and M.

Mind you I said some hard truths, but not in a confrontational manner. I was direct and honest. I didn't try to convince her of anything. I said as of right now I still think this M has a chance, but HONESTY is the only way we can move forward, that and of course you MUST END CONTACT WITH OM FOREVER! I was supportive, yet I kept my priorities, protect myself and my children from her selfish actions. Of course now she says the reasons she's gone is because of issues in the M that have nothing to do with OM! The fog is still there and she doesn't understand when you are having an EA it affects more than just the bedroom it affects your mental state about your spouse, you question if you should be married to them or anyone for that matter and any negative traits in your spouse are magnified and blown tremendously out of proportion.

I told her I didn't expect her to make any decisions based on our conversation. In fact I told her unless she was absolutely sure that she could commit to US that it's better she stay where she is. I did however state that having feelings for OM is understandable and as long as she can at least Pledge no contact that this was a positive step. I let her know that it takes time to ween yourself from those feelings, it could take months or years, but if we worked on meeting each others EN's our love would grow. It's not magic, it takes real caring and effort, but you must be committed to the M and want to be married.

That's it, I told her she would be missed. I told her until she is ready to commit to me as my W and a woman who will respect and care for my feelings that for my sake and the sake of the love I am trying to preserve for her that it's best we have no contact except for finances and childcare. I am concerned about her mental state and I could see she didn't want to leave, but something is holding her back right now. She was moving slowly to the door. I didn't ask for a hug, or a kiss not even a handshake. The first time she left I slammed the door loudly behind her I was so emotional and upset. This time as exited the door she reached her hand out.
Me: "what's that for?"
Her: " The door knob"
Me: "Oh, there won't be anymore door slamming or craziness, things are changing"

I don't know how she took that but I didn't mean it as a dig, I do still love her. I was so calm, relaxed, and even tempered, here my W is leaving me to go to a friends house, at least that's what she told me, and I'm not upset, or trying to persuade her to stay? It feels good to be so control of my emotions and I didn't LB not even once. I did not sugar coat, but I did not LB.

I'm proud of myself. I feel so sorry for my D, I think she is so disappointed in her mom that she's totally indifferent to her coming back or not. My S did come out afterwards and look around for his mom, but he didn't say a word just went right back to playing, but I could notice his disappointment. I hugged him tight and told him how much I love him. I stopped in my D's room and she was cooling watchin MTV. I asked if she needed to talk about ANYTHING? She commented she was fine and 10 minutes later she came out to show me her new semi-tight jeans. I reluctantly complimented her, I'm so scared of my princess getting those darn curves in the right places...YEEECHHH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Anyway, now I'm rambling so I'll stop here. So how did I do? I was strong, but not rude, I was caring but not needy, I was honest but not brutal...at least I didn't LB or lose it. Any comments, suggestions or 2X4's would be appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Way to go FM!

Stay strong. Let her doubts fester. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FM, that must be a common thing. Like school girls writing there notebooks. My WW also createad a screen name of Stevenxxxx. Then used his name as the password to lots of things.

familyman - You did just fine. Keep on keeping on. Stick with your plan.

I think you did great. To be able to keep your composure, talking to your W about things you should never have to, shows great strength. I'm sure she saw it clear as day.
Now things hopefully will start to eat at her, more and more each day.

WAY TO GO!!
You were calm and cool. I wish I knew what was running through her mind right about now!I am sorry to here about your children. I know it is a challenge dealing with their emotions not knowing what to say or how to explain it; but you are doing a great job! keep it up.

Good Job!!!!!!

T~

Thanks folks I really appreciate the support <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm trying to save my M but I'm also trying to save my sanity. I'm a good person, a loving husband and a great dad. I didn't beg her to marry me and I won't beg her not to cheat on me or to come home.

*No matter how much it hurts....or not?

I'm kind of scared because I'm not hurting after seeing her. I should be feeling something, but I feel happy, not angry, disappointed, stunned, hurt, frustrated...I feel content and strong.

Plan B is hard, but it's better than pulling at someone who's running in the opposite direction and unlike some of the WS's I've read about she is a hard one to detect because she tries so hard to hide how she feels about OM,
BUT
I CAN SEE CLEARLY NOW THE RAIN IS GONE... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I actually can't sing a lick but it's how I feel inside so I better ride the happy vibes while I can.

You did great FM. You are my inspiration. We have been in Plan A for a long time and tomorrow I am going to give the "talk" and give the letter. I hope I do as well as you did tonight. Our are valuable and you have a very important role as Daddy to your kids. They are so lucky to have you. You are their stability, their rock, their touchstone in life. The situation with A in our M's stinks and it is a shame that we and other innocent victims eg your kids are subjected to it. I hope there is a special place in heaven for us. Anyway, you did great and I am sending prayers your way. Did you check out the anti-d's yet? They will help.

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

You did GREAT FamilyMatters!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Difficult, isn't it? But you have a plan, goals in sight and boundries set. Incentive to do this right! And you're doing a wonderful job!!

Stay strong!!

FM
Hey buddy! You did great! Sometimes that's the hardest part, not to "LB". (I have the Jerkyll and Hyde thing that I do - but I haven't found a balance a peace within my heart about alot of things (EN's).

I have read your threads and there is no doubt you love this woman. You do need your EN's met too. Sounds like she is not capable or willing to do this for you right now. That's cool, as long as it's honest. But, that explanation cannot take away the pain. We all will be pulling for you as you "Plan B" yourself silly. We will laugh, cry, advise, hold your hand, {{{HUG}}}}, just what ever you may need from all of us.

{{{{HUGS}}}} to FM and his "babies".

Oh about those "curves". I hear ya. I have no idea how LINY is handling this about our 11 yr old D. I'm scared S#!&less. Boys are gonna being beating down the door, heaven help us. I have already gotten just to those 2 strange men that moved in here a couple of years ago (our sons are 19 and 18). And yes, the girlies keep calling - don't those tramps have any self respect anymore - J/K (a little mother's vent - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

We luv ya and will be here for ya.

As always thank you for being here for all of us too

Brown

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SureSurvivor:
<strong> You did great FM. You are my inspiration. We have been in Plan A for a long time and tomorrow I am going to give the "talk" and give the letter. I hope I do as well as you did tonight. Our are valuable and you have a very important role as Daddy to your kids. They are so lucky to have you. You are their stability, their rock, their touchstone in life. The situation with A in our M's stinks and it is a shame that we and other innocent victims eg your kids are subjected to it. I hope there is a special place in heaven for us. Anyway, you did great and I am sending prayers your way. Did you check out the anti-d's yet? They will help. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SS,
Thanks a million, "seriously" it was like an out of body experience. I was sooo cool but not cold cool like chill breeze skirting thru the trees on a warm spring day. About the anti-d's. The next day I felt so much better so I didn't pursue the prescription, but maybe you're right. I don't need another night like that one I had recently. I was....well scared. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I hate to admit it but I was below the dumps, I was the bacteria that lives inside of the maggots that leave off the unmentionables that spill from the rodents who live beneath the rubble that is stacked beneath the dumps...it will suffice to say I was lower than low. Maybe I should be proactive and get them BEFORE I need them huh?


NerlyCrzy,
I love the name...GREAT NAME! and thank YOU!


[QUOTE]Originally posted by brown:
[QB] FM
Hey buddy! You did great! Sometimes that's the hardest part, not to "LB". (I have the Jerkyll and Hyde thing that I do - but I haven't found a balance a peace within my heart about alot of things (EN's).

I have read your threads and there is no doubt you love this woman. You do need your EN's met too. Sounds like she is not capable or willing to do this for you right now. That's cool, as long as it's honest. But, that explanation cannot take away the pain. We all will be pulling for you as you "Plan B" yourself silly. We will laugh, cry, advise, hold your hand, {{{HUG}}}}, just what ever you may need from all of us.

{{{{HUGS}}}} to FM and his "babies".

Hello Brown (aka Liny's better half <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
YES....I love my W eventhough I'm sure she doesn't know why. I remember her for the person she is when she's not ADDICTED. I think she wanted to come back, but I also agree she isn't ready. She hasn't accepted that her R with OM is damaging to us at all levels and that it must END FOREVER.

I gave her analogy. I told her OM is a weakness for her and that she is addicted. I compared it to Cocaine. How can you expect me to work with you if you're still using? I want to be your H and I can't make you stop using, but when you become ready to give up that drug and get on with your life I'll be there for you thru the withdrawal that follows. I'm not expecting you to kick the habit first, but I am expecting you to accept you have a problem and be ready to say you will try with all your might to never use that drug again and your willing to take the steps necessary to QUIT.

This just seemed the best way to describe how I see her sitch without continually mentioning OM's name. Of course my wife is no crack addict, but what do you call someone who has addicted to something and lets it destroy her sense of self, how the people who love her most percieve her and her own morals and convictions? Sounds like a crack head to me....but I love her anyway. I am not blameless.....MY LB's helped FINANCE her first hit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I love you guys too and you're right there's going to be some UPs and some DOWNs, and I'm going to need you alot. You might have to start claiming me on your TAXES.

Please no talk about the troubled teens. This little MTV, BET, boys call here at all hours constantly, of course they get an earful when dad answers after 11:00 on a school night. I'm overprotective but comical when I embarrass my daughters gentlemen callers *blah. They all think I'm cool but crazy and I like it that way. STAY AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER YOU LITTLE HORMONE WITH FEET, AWAY I TELL YOU! I SPITE THEE!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

No sugar-coating and no disrespectful LBs !! Honest and bold communication of reality-land.

I LOVE IT!!!!

(( hugs ))

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well played, Mr. FM. You need no advice right now (except to get the drugs), but do you feel your plan B boundaries are going to be clear? If your WW thinks she can waltz in any time she wants, it will be a problem. I know you're just starting.

GC

GREAT!

Plan B helped me a lot to regain peace and turn on my brain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , gave me so needed time to think what I want in my life, and the way I could get what I want.

You'll see... once you are 'out', dark, you'll begin thinking with less pain, pressure, you'll see that life goes on NO MATTER WHAT, and day by day you'll be re-finding your true yourself!

You are lucky having kids with you too!
My son (almost 3) and his need for me helped me enormously!
Just looking his little face while sleeping, cuddlig him, so fragile and innocent, and so in need of a good loving sane mom, gave me such strength (and he still does and forever will) to put my (our) life back to normal, to life where only love and care for each other exists...
Focus on them, give them love and time as much as you possibly can, and you'll se peace coming back to you, you'll see how they'll give you back life itself!

You did the way I could just give a (at least) three-hours-applause! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Plan B combined with '180 degree' in these situations work the best!

FM...Can't add much other than I've taken this post and saved it (under some really deep hidden files on my computer). If my WW does finally decide to move out, I'm going to "borrow" some of your statements - hope you don't mind. I'm knee deep in the middle of what you told me a few days ago; two days hate - two hours "marginal love" - 1 day hate and on and on.

Tonight you made me smile......STAY AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER YOU LITTLE HORMONE WITH FEET, AWAY I TELL YOU! I SPITE THEE!! My DD is only 7 and I'm in not hurry to use that but I'm diggin' the "hormones with feet" description.....

Your "coolness" under pressure is refreshing......LS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I'm trying to save my M but I'm also trying to save my sanity. I'm a good person, a loving husband and a great dad. I didn't beg her to marry me and I won't beg her not to cheat on me or to come home.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FM you and I are soul brothers. I hope to buy you a beer one day when our messes are clean.

God bless you, your efforts here have given me greater strength Br'a.

A lesson in effective firmness without LBing. Excellent !

Beer? Did soomeone mention BEER??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (Ahhhhh...I already had my qutoa of six--for the month! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

FM! Well done! Your-our-everyones prayers went answered when she showed up *unexpectedly* tonight. Your mind and thoughts under *normal* conditions seem to go a mile minute and I pictured you rehearsing every word, every action you would have said and done on Saturday. This was the best way. No time to "think"--you've done that for how many months/years now? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> And you reassured *youself* (besides your W that you mean business. "$hit or get off the pot", my Dad's favorite saying was. No constipation, no need for an enema; just do it or don't. (I know you love your analogies; a bit crude, but how'd I do?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

What do they say? "Indifference is worse than making a bad decision"? Something like that. If not, I claim it! And, who are "they" anyway??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ) It's a shame your W can't see that your kids are this way *all* the time towrds her now. It's a shame your W can't see anything now.

Hang in there, buddy. You done good tonight (as usual!)

"Brown's better half"
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

FM,

U done good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have taken the liberty to share your thoughts and actions with a faithful dad/h who is hurting right now (my H's BIL). I hope he reads this. It is good to know that a BS can stand up for himself and his family without so much as 1 LB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good job. Quite proud of you FM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

WOW!
I slept good last night. It was the first night in over a week that I actually slept thru the night. I had only ONE drink. I almost slept too good, S and I had to run to the bus stop. I came back and walked D to the bus stop as well. Then I log on here and my support group has encouraging words for me as well. This is fantastic. I'm trying to relish in these small WINS, but I do slightly fear that they will become common occurrences <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , meaning sooner than later me not being emotional with WW will be second nature and then she will have what she desiresin her fog state: Utter freedom to further decimate her life.

Orchid/LostSailor
I am proud to have my words or actions used for anything positive. It's seems somehow infintely spiritual that my pain and angst can actually become useful to another person and spare them some pain. It refreshes my soul to have a positive impact, yet I know my situation isn't GODLY at all, but a emotional torture I do not deserve. I'm not fogged into thinking this whole ordeal has been beneficial to my development <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , but I'm glad to contribute simply because I am where I am, and the only thing I can control is how I react to my W's poor decisions, not her decisions themselves.

Liny (Browns ever improving other half <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
Yes, my W must dump or get off the proverbial can! Metamucil woman, METAMUCIL and Leafy ruffage straight away! I can't understand why she fights returning and giving up OM? She is only prolonging her own torture. I guess my W who has never tried any drug has finally found her weakness: OM! It's been so long that she has been fogged (YEARS) that I can barely remember her as HERSELF. It's been 4 years since she told me not to come home (unbeknownst to me that was when she first started seeing OM). This has been a long road and my gas tank is now running on fumes.

Gray:
You're right, BOUNDARIES. She must respect my boundaries. Don't worry that was a ONE time event. If she stops by unannounced again I will not allow her to interrupt. She will need to commit to return to us. This is not just for me, it's for the kids as well, they don't need to ride this rollercoaster any longer. I'm not sure she even sees that they've been ridding a rollercoaster for YEARS now. It's time to stop! Can you imagine, during our separation I had physical custody of my S (3) and she had my D (11) and my D would call me at 1-2am crying because mommy had left her alone in the house. I tried to get the police involved but in MD you can leave a child 10 and older alone, just not over 24 hours. My W has been fogged for quite sometime. Boundaries: without question. I have stories that would make your cringe, but the truth is there was time when she was the greatest, most caring mom I knew and I was the JERK! My penance is almost paid though, enough is enough.

BELONG:
My children give me so much strength. You are right when you say without them I would be LOST. They are my Anti-D's in human form and I'm proud to be able to provide them with some form of normalcy. They provide me with so much incentive, I can't let them see me fall apart; then who/what would they have?

Pepper:
To get a PEPPER sign of approval is HUGE! Lets see if I can continue this streak. Is this luck or can I deliver? Time will tell and everyday is another relay. Race yah to the tape.

Bob:
After what we've been thru, and will go thru...after this is over forget the beer:
How about a shot of Jacky D?!?!?!
*Barteder...make mine a double sir..that's 2 for my friend and I <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>