I know from reading here that none of that got through the fog. But at least I tried. He will leave here and meet with OW for an hour or two (as he does every day.) He will immediately tell her what a B(*&^ I was this morning, justifying the A even further. 2X4s to me. I was very calm and loving when I spoke to him. My question is did I do the wrong thing? We haven't had a conversation like that in several months. I have to leave in a few minutes (off work today - drs appt an hour away) so I may not get back to responses until this afternoon, but I would appreciate feedback and advice. Thanks, all

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: starz ]</small>

Starz I dunno if much of what we say is good or bad during the fog.

I actually replied to my WW " My hovercraft is full of eels" yesterday and she didn't notice. Just carried on fogging up the room. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All I can do is quote Pep: " a closed mouth gathers no foot". Don't try to discuss big heartfelt stuff while someone is alien abducted. Save all that for when there is a spark of sanity.

I know you NEED to have those big talks, so do I but U talkin' to a dumb animal.

Remember the dukes of hazard ? remember 'Flash' the dumb looking dawg that the sherrif had ? well don't converse with your WS in any way that you would consider too complex for Flash to respond to.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Our time to discuss big stuff will come.

As Confiscius said " when you argue with a fool, there are two fools arguing".

Love

Bob

BTW " starz" ? "Violation" starz ? Great band ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks, Bob.
My hovercraft is full of eels!!!!!LMAO!!!!
That's a great line. I think I'll try it. After dr appt I spent some time shopping some great sales.

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: starz ]</small>

Starz,

Logic and fog don't go well together. If your talk with the WS helped you, that's good. As for the WS you are correct, as long as there is fog, not much will go through.

What may go through is some reverse babble. So the next time he alludes to the fact that you are NOT acting nicely to him you can say something like: 'Oh, you say I am being mean? Didn't you already ruin my reputation to the OW, so what have I got to lose? Didn't you already call me a b _ _ _ h when you were with the OW? I thought that's how you wanted me t/b. OW has a way of telling me these things. (wait for him to acknowledge what you said, then)...... of if he doesn't, then drop it. If he does then..... let him know that you are forcing yourself to act this way and it is totally out of character.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid /Starz I really must try reverse babble.

I can see for the first time ( d'oh) that it isn't just a fog coping mechanism for BS but is a way of turning WS pretzel logic back on them. Reciting facts in terms THEY understand because THEY initiated them.

This is a real opportunity for me to make WW think about what she is saying, and the true meaning behind it even through fog.

I have been frightened to so far though as I know that if I get half way through some reverse babble and I begin to feel my toe pressing on my lip, I am not sure how to recover.

I don't have a set of 'points' that I want to get across. It seems to me that a BS needs to be a sharp as Orchid to do that stuff well, and I'm certainly not that !

I need to think about this though. I am missing an opportunity to support plan A here by not reversing.

Thanks both.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> Orchid /Starz I really must try reverse babble.

I can see for the first time ( d'oh) that it isn't just a fog coping mechanism for BS but is a way of turning WS pretzel logic back on them. Reciting facts in terms THEY understand because THEY initiated them.

This is a real opportunity for me to make WW think about what she is saying, and the true meaning behind it even through fog.

I have been frightened to so far though as I know that if I get half way through some reverse babble and I begin to feel my toe pressing on my lip, I am not sure how to recover.

I don't have a set of 'points' that I want to get across. It seems to me that a BS needs to be a sharp as Orchid to do that stuff well, and I'm certainly not that !

I need to think about this though. I am missing an opportunity to support plan A here by not reversing.

Thanks both. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob and Starz,

Reverse babble is not hard. You may have to practice a bit. I did. In the bathroom mirror -LOL!!!

The point of reverse babble is to use their words and sometimes their thought patterns back at them. The hard piece is to do it with a calm demeanor and not waver from giving them that blank look. Saying 'I don't know', is a phrase you need to learn to say without giving away your true feelings.

Is it fair? No but it does get the point across. When my WS reacted back in anger, I simply told him that is what he told me. Remember one of the phrases the WS say is "I forgot" or "I don't know". So since they have already pointed out that their minds are not functioning at a safe speed, then your memory will prevail.

It took a while but eventually the WS have to admit they don't have their act together. Once you get that, you will be able to make quicker progress.

I have to run out to a lunch appointment but will check back on you both later.

Take care,
L.

Thanks for the reply. I would welcome more lessons on fogbabble any time!!!

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: starz ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> starz: Ok, so what should I have said about his looks? He has new glasses and was looking in the mirror saying something like" I just can't get used to the way I look with these new glasses" (obviously fishing for admiration.) He looks in the mirror admiring himself all the time now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Something like - 'yea me too. You almost look better in them but something is missing....' or 'You think? Well you certainly look more your age.' or 'those glasses make you look distinguishing. Those cute gray hairs glisten with those glasses.' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> starz: He lost 70 pounds last year for OW and all new clothes, etc. Very vain about his appearance.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Hm..... R u still washing his clothes? Maybe a few cycles on hot will shrink them and he will have to buy more. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> starz: Frankly, I think he looks older and more wrinkled. But since he is 55, and abviously in a big time midlife crisis with a woman 6 years older than my oldest child, he is very weight and looks conscious.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Ask him why is the OW making him look old? Is it her cooking? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> starz: ....I would welcome more lessons on fogbabble any time!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Anytime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />