I'm at a loss and I really do not know how to correctly approach this situation. Many of you know my story about my H's EA with OW which started eight years ago. We had separated shortly when I first found out and he had actually wanted to get a divorce at that time, but then reconsidered and stayed with me. OW got married and divorced. After her divorce is when contact resumed until I found evidence last August.

I have exposed the EA to family and friends. According to my H, OW now has fiancee and my H is currently helping fiancee look for a job. I find frequent phone calls to OW on my H's cell phone (about 5-6 calls/month). My H is very loving and attentive to me and he is planning on having a baby with me. We've even been to the doctor to make sure that everything is okay with us. Everything could be good, but I do not feel comfortable with the continued phone calls to OW. I just can't do it. He does not really hide it from me, but he also does not tell me about it, unless I ask him "Have you talked to OW recently?" Then he will tell me.

I just don't if I can do this any longer. I only have OW's cellphone. I do not know her fiancee's name or address, therefore I cannot contact him. I have been contemplating of calling OW to ask her about her relationship with my husband, but I'm not sure if it is the correct thing to do. I have never spoken to this woman before.

I just don't know if I really want this much longer. I don't understand why my husband is doing this to us when he knows how uncomfortable I feel with continued contact. Would my calling the OW serve any purpose?

My husband has the "Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome". He actually calls several other women as well and I'm not always comfortable with that either, but I know most of the other's personally and I don't really feel that there is something to worry about, even though I still think that it is inappropriate for him to be calling other women all the time.

All I want is to have a normal family back. I want to give my husband a child (his biggest wish), but I do not want to bring a child into an unstable marriage. When I bring this topic up, then he gets angry and he says that I am making this unstable because I worry too much and look too much into things when, according to him, there is nothing to worry about.

I just do not believe that you can go from having an EA with a person where you proclaimed your love for this person to "just being friends". He says that when the EA happened, things were different between us and because of all of the changes that I have made within the last year, he is very much in love with me and has moved on. Then why keep contact with OW, even as a friend?

I just do not think that my husband respects me and I'm starting to think that he probably never will.

This is really hard for me because I love this man. What hurts me even more is that lately I have started to look at other men and I wonder how it would be if I were with them? I feel guilty about those thoughts, but it's like I can't help it. I'm still young and I often worry that I am wasting my time with someone who may never love or respect me the way I need to be loved.

Do you think calling OW would be appropriate? I just fear that she's probably going to hang up on me or not really want to talk to me.

Kati

oh Kati, did you see my email address in my post for you? if not it is chewey75@hotmail.com please email me and we can talk more. not that i have any advice necessarily but we do have some similar issues. just make sure and put kati in the subject line so i don't delete it.

if it were me i might be more inclined to talk to the fiance first then the OW. it does seem like your H is not getting things so the next step would seem to be contacting one of them or both of them.

prayers and hugs (lots of them) to you, RR

Hi Kati,

I'd advise not contacting OW. Don't look for the truth from someone who has helped create the lie. By calling the OW, you'll validate the triangle. Her position is not valid; don't give her a say in your M.

Trust you. If H is disrespecting boundaries that you've established so that you feel safe in your M, that says more than OW ever could.
Jenny

Hi Kati,

Well,I had posted a long response to you and I thought it made it through the pipeline but I guess it just evaporated.UGH.

I'll try this again,short and sweet though.

I remember advising you many months ago to tell the fiance what kind of a "relationship" his soon to be wife was in with your WH.He has a right to know and exposing the EA was the best option.

You can safely assume that nothing will change as long as you ALLOW it to happen.Your WH is still throwing you bones to keep you happy all the while he continues his inappropriate contact with this OW.

Your WH's actions will continually be a thorn in your side until you decide to put up some serious boundaries with him.You told me before that you thought you could live with this but it will keep coming back to haunt you because what your WH is doing is wrong and you will not be able to pretend it isn't happening or sweep it under the rug forever.

So if I were you,I would talk to the fiance not the homewrecker but brace yourself for the explosion.No one is going to be happy with this kind of revelation.The alternative is maintain the status quo and be unhappy.Your WH is very unwilling to change his behavior so if you cannot live with that then you cannot live with him.

O

OG,

Something must be going on with MB because I replied to several messages as well and all my responses seem to have disappeared in cyberspace.

I know that you have advised me to contact the fiancee several times already and if I knew his name and contact information, then I would contact him today. I have never said that I could live with this because I cannot.

The only telephone number that I have is OW's cell phone and her first name, that' it! I know fiancee's first name (that is even "fiancee" does even exist...), but I do not know where they live (state, address) or anything else.

I guess the only other alternative is to file for divorce.

Kati

Ok.Then what about having a heart to heart talk with your WH about this inappropriate relationship.Start with him.You can say that his contact with OW still bothers you and is impairing your ability to have a happy marriage.Do not accept from him that this is all in your head or any of that baloney.Make it clear that the buck stops here.He either stops all contact with OW or you go to her/fiance and spill the beans.

Can you do it? Can you stand up to him on this knowing you are going to risk it all? Have you honestly had enough? What if he does actually stop contact with the OW,what about all the rest? Are they all appropriate relationships or is this WH's way of feeling good,by communicating with other women?

You have some serious questions to ask yourself Kati.I still love my WH very very much but yet I have to find some way to live a life without him because of what has happend to us and his choices.I wonder if the love will go away or will it never end,becoming a road block to any other relationship I could have with a man.All I can do is wait and see.I too think about other men now and wonder what if? I have been alone but not lonely for almost a year now and I long for a real honest,fun and loving relationship with a man,I miss that.I know I don't want to be alone forever so at some point,I will have to throw myself out there and take a chance.It is hard,so true.

But one thing I do know is this: you do not need the attention or admiration or love of any other man/woman if you are truly involved and love the person you are with.I may be "old fashioned" that way but I have never had any desire to leave my WH because I loved him only and kept my heart guarded from those who tried to pry me away from my marriage.I can find all that I need otherwise with friendships and relationships with women." I only have eyes for you" applies to the man I am with and I would do all that I could to prevent that changing.

So,what will you do next Kati? There's a lot on your plate to consider.It's not just your run of the mill A but this contact with other women is similar to my WH if I remember correctly.Too many opportunities and advances made by both parties for my liking.My WH's industry is rife with adultery and inappropriate behavior.That is a sad fact that I am not sure I want to deal with ever again.

Well,I'm off to watch Oprah.I think I have said enough anyway.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


O

OG,

I appreciate your help very much. I believe that my husband has an intense need for admiration and attention and I also think that it makes him feel good that other women show interest in him. He does not work in an industry that promotes this, in fact most of the people that he works with are older guys. ;-)

My H grew up very poor and he often felt bad about himself, his looks, clothing, home etc. He was able to get out of this situation and he really made something out of himself. The "ugly duckling" turned into a "swan". He is very handsome, has a great career, we have a nice home, friends etc. There were, however, problems in our marriage and I fully understand how I contributed to this, BUT I have worked on myself and I have made vast improvement that even he recognizes and he told me just the other day that he has re-fallen in love with me. It is the strangest thing. I'm much younger than my husband (11 years) and sometimes I wonder if this is something that bothers him. Once in a while, his friends will make fun of him about me - robbing the cradle etc.

The women that he talks to are generally much older than I am and not very attractive and some of them, I actually know personally. I can usually rely on my gut feeling when I can sense that something is not right. My husband seems to have a tremendous need to recover the time when he was not recognized by women due to his poverty etc. I believe that he feels that NOW he has something to offer, he is somebody and he loves to show off with his career, home etc. I'm very proud of him as well and I'm proud of the life that he enables us to have, but it hurts me that he feels that my admiration for him is not enough.

Some of these things (calls) really do not concern me a lot, but the ones to this specific OW do and that is because he had an EA with her and told her that he loved her. I just do not believe that this "love" can die so easily and change into a friendship only.

Like you, I have never in all of these 14 years of marriage, needed the attention of another man and I was also able to ward off any advances etc., but I have to tell the truth when I say that this is becoming more and more difficult to do. I have never needed any "male friends" in my life, in fact, I have a ton of girlfriends and I love doing girl-things with them like having tea, shopping trips etc. This has always been sufficient for me as well.

OG, I have told my H often that this continued contact with her hurts me and is disrespectful to my feelings and his response is always the same... "You are turning this into a big deal when it's not." Am I really? Then he proceeds by telling me to let him figure out how to get this taken care of.

If I had OW's fiancee phone #, I would call him today, but I don't and I have no way of finding it out since I don't know his name. To tell you the truth, I sometimes doubt that there even is a "fiancee". I'm not even sure of that.

Have fun watching Oprah!

Kati

Well,you know,I'm not there so I can't answer for you on how your WH is acting.You know best and you are aware which is good.My WH is also trying to make up time I think in the admiration and affection department with women.I cannot say for sure but my MIL was and is not overly affectionate with anyone so I really think my WH needs and craves a lot of it,more so than even I was giving to him.Big problem.

Anyway,I thought you said your WH was a Psychologist? Sorry if that's wrong.I am trying to keep too many stories straight here and well,it's not always working.LOL

So your WH says to let him figure things out huh? Well,thus far he isn't doing such a hot job is he? You are still unsure and hurting.I still think that if you do nothing to force a change in WH,OW and/or yourself that this will go on,as is,for eternity.It comes down to again,can you live this way? If not,then what are you going to do about it? Your WH is playing games with you but the change isn't coming.He's placating you.

Still,if I were you,I would up the ante.Suggest that you will call the OW fiance if he does not stop contact with OW.He doesn't know that you dont know the number right? Or he may even become upset at the thought of you calling the OW and giving her a piece of your mind but at least it will shake things up a bit.Make your WH a little less comfy that you are going to just sit back and accept it all? Perhaps.

Anyway,Oprah wasn't that great,Gwyneth Paltrow was on.I do like her but it was a bit of a boring interview.AND,Oprah said to her audience,that she could just "lick" Jude Law,her other guest who she kept commenting on as being so handsome and dashing.PARDON ME?? He has a girlfriend and a son who happened to be backstage! Geeze.Bad manners oprah. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

OB,

I think you must have me confused with someone else on this board. My WH is not a psychologist; he may need one, but he certainly is not working in this field. ;-) But, that's okay. I understand how difficult it is to keep everyone sorted out here. So many new people every day; so many sad stories.

I cannot really threatend WH with calling OW's BF because he knows that I do not know him. The only recourse I have is to call OW. I have told him that I have thought about doing that and he told me to go ahead and even gave me the phone number. And that is one of the reason's why I have not called her. As much as I would like to confront her about their relationship, I very much doubt that she will be of any help to me.

I guess the MB concepts are not really in my favor in my situation.

Well, I'll have to spend some time this weekend thinking what I am going to do and how I can best handle this situation.

We talked about it yesterday again and it's just a subject that goes around and around. He does not want to understand why it is hurting me because he feels that he is doing nothing wrong here. He offered to stop the calls, but I highly doubt that he is actually capable of doing this. He said something to me that kind of startled me and it was about him not feeling right in the head. FOG! ;-)

Anyway, thanks for posting to my thread.

Kati

Hi Kati...

Something that I am often suprised by here on the boards is the complete sense of powerlessness that a lot of BSs seem to feel.

The thing is this..you don't need OW to cooperate with you. What you need [imo of course] is to have your boundaries firmly in place regarding what is and is not acceptable to you. You do not need to explain to him, time and again how it makes you feel...once is enough. You have told him it makes you uncomfortable..don't forget to tell him that his disdain for your feelings is not, in your opinion, an acceptable response.

In other words..wrong answer..and impoverished roots are no excuse for manipulative, deceitfull, and unfaithfull behavior.

I would agree that he is being neither respectfull nor remorsefull...contact is a deal breaker for me. I'm not wasting time trying to negotiate. My boundaries are not negotiable, looks like his aren't either...why are yours?

Noodle,

I dont' necessarily feel powerless. The correct thing to do is would be to file for divorce. I do not believe that my husband is ever going to respect my boundaries. I have also told him, just yesterday, that his "reasons" are not acceptable for not respecting my feelings. He usually gets very angry then and he says that I do not make our home a comfortable place for him to come to because it's always about questions and pain and hurt.

It will be very painful for me to file for divorce because I do love him, but I almost do not see any other way.

Kati

Kati..

I'm sorry that things have come to this for you. I know it's painfull to love someone and at the same time know that they do not respect you, do not intend to respect you and wonder how things ever got to this state.

What to do when you have an unrepentant spouse..we so often espouse to be thinking "Just give me a reason to leave!" but the truth is we are saying "Please give me a reason to stay!"...how heartbreaking. I think this is where the sense of powerlessness comes in...we are not able to make them into something that we can live with, no matter how badly we want to..they have as much free will as we do, that includes the ability to choose destruction rather than recovery. Not happy news, I feel for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Noodle,

I'm not ready yet, but I know that sooner or later I will have to find the strength somewhere to end this. I just feel so sad and I've been crying all day. I know people say don't blame yourself, but I still feel like I've failed. I cannot make him see why this is hurting me.

He says all the right words about how much he loves me, how much he wants to have a baby with me, even goes to the doctor to get tested, tells everyone about this, buys me a diamond ring and other gifts and still he cannot tell OW to NC him because it disrespects my feelings. He knows exactly how much it would mean for me to have a baby and this is what hurts me so so much because I feel like that maybe I've wasted all this time fighting for something that was never worth or possible to fight for.

This really hurts. I will pray tonight, something I don't do very often and I will ask God to show me a way and give me strength.

Kati

Kati

My A ended about 1 month before D-Day. I couldn't see how I could even be around OW anymore so I removed myself from the place we saw eachother (the gym). Eventually the phone calls and the e-mails stopped. It would have been better for me, for her and my W had I just stopped all contact, just as MB's recommends.

The A isn't over until all contact has stopped no matter how shiney your armor is... It isn't "armor" he's wearing it's his ego. Sadly I would have to say don't make a baby until all the other "friends" are out of the picture.
H

{{{{{{{{{{{kati}}}}}}}}}}}
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kati,

If and when you do decide to file for a D,come on over to the D/D board.We are starting a new club there called "BW's File for a D".There's me,believer,Lordslady,FaithfulCJ,and other's.It's about taking a stand and not allowing the madness to continue.It's not a choice we ever wanted to be faced with but we had to take our lives back from painful users who are dragging us along on their ride of selfishness.There is nothing sacred,special or sane about allowing that type of situation to continue on indefinitely.It hurts to do it but there's empowerment there.

O