"Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse." Haleys quotation

If this statement is true, why should the cheating spouse feel guilt? If the other spouse was taking care of the affections and sexual tanks of the other spouse then that person would not have a need to look for an outside affair.

Why isnt thought given to the spouse that does cheat...that if they are neglected for years in the sexual realm of a marriage and denied sex by the other partner do they really think, the neglected spouse isnt going to cheat? Are they that secure in their marriage, which sex is that special bond...that the partner can say NO and the other one is going to stay loyal to the most wonderful gift in life between a man and woman?

I do believe that some spouses take advantage of a marriage. Greed for money, social status, that basic needs are fully neglected. I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault. I would hate to think I lived with a man 12 years and he had to hold pent up feelings for wanting affections and sex...and you want to call that heartless because he cheats? The marriage should have never gotten to that point...its time for this man to get out of this marriage.

Ok... I'll take the bait...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There will always be problems in a M. lack of sex, lack of money, alcoholism, lying... the list is endless. For me, I consider these the "WORSE" issues in a M... as in most marriage vows, "For Better or for WORSE..."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would hate to think I lived with a man 12 years and he had to hold pent up feelings for wanting affections and sex...and you want to call that heartless because he cheats? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">??? Are you talking about your H, or another man "that you know"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The marriage should have never gotten to that point...its time for this man to get out of this marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this "man" were a man, he'd divorce his W PRIOR to starting ANY relationship with another woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

By the way, welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Wow, um...it is so easy to take words out of context and twist them to fit your own situation, yes? Why not tell us your whole story? BTW, welcome to MB, but i'm not sure this post is going to go over real well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> f this statement is true, why should the cheating spouse feel guilt? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you married, you married for better or for worse. You pledged to your spouse your commitment and fidelity. You may have even been married under the grace of God and therefor should hold your marriage sacred. No matter WHAT, there is absolutely NO justification for an affair. There are no exceptions. An affair is sometimes the most painful thing a betrayed spouse (BS) will ever endure. You think there should be no guilt in inflicting that pain?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the other spouse was taking care of the affections and sexual tanks of the other spouse then that person would not have a need to look for an outside affair.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did the wayward spouse (WS) communicate their needs fully to the BS before having an affair? Did they make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that if those needs were not met that it was a "deal breaker" for them and the marriage (M) would be over? What steps did the WS take prior to the affair (A) to improve the marriage on their own, and did they enthusiastically discuss with their spouse ways to restore love to the M? No one has a "need" to go outside of a marriage. It is a selfish want. Suppose all the steps were taken to improve the M..and I mean any and ALL steps but the neglectful spouse still did not change. Why does the neglected spouse then not file for a D BEFORE having an A. Why complicate the situation with an A? You loved your spouse once, why would you confer that pain and hurt of an A on them? How could you be so cruel and uncaring?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why isnt thought given to the spouse that does cheat...that if they are neglected for years in the sexual realm of a marriage and denied sex by the other partner do they really think, the neglected spouse isnt going to cheat? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many times, a neglectful spouse is not aware of the impact of their actions. Sometimes the neglected spouse is not open and honest about their feelings on the subject. Sometimes the neglected spouse is so critical and demanding of the neglectful spouse that the neglectful spouse only withdraws and has little incentive to change. How do you know that thought is not given to the would-be cheater? Did the would-be betrayed spouse say, "I know I'm not giving you enough sex and I don't care. I know that you are seeking to have an affair and I don't care. I know that our marriage is down the tubes and I don't care." And ya know what? I'll bet the neglectful spouse was NOT aware that their partner might cheat as a consequence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Are they that secure in their marriage, which sex is that special bond...that the partner can say NO and the other one is going to stay loyal to the most wonderful gift in life between a man and woman?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They are probably not that secure in the marriage and perhaps that's why the desire for sex has diminished. They expect loyalty because they were promised loyalty in their vows. Perhaps they just expect patience from the would-be cheater and said cheater has not yet fully communicated their feelings on the subject. If you think that marriage is the most wonderful gift between a man and a woman, why are you trying to justify an affair?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do believe that some spouses take advantage of a marriage. Greed for money, social status, that basic needs are fully neglected. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that some spouses take advantage of marriage. And love is not nearly the only reason that people get married. But still, there was a commitment when the vows were made, yes? I repeat, what steps have been taken to ensure that both spouses are having their needs met?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry, but this is so much BS (and I DON'T mean betrayed spouse). You have GOT to either be having an affair, had an affair or are contemplating having one. It IS a heartless act and I will go so far as to say that it is one of THE most heartless acts. She is totally at fault? Give me a friggin' break!!! You are trying to lay blame with someone else for the choices you are making, or the choices you are trying to make. That is crap. No one is accountable for their own actions except for themselves. Do you truly believe that you have no control? Does the "she" in this equation really have SO much power over you? Then yes--run, don't walk to the nearest divorce lawyer. This is not healthy for someone to have so much control over you. Think Jim Jones and Charlie Manson..what a scary woman this "she" must be!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would hate to think I lived with a man 12 years and he had to hold pent up feelings for wanting affections and sex...and you want to call that heartless because he cheats? The marriage should have never gotten to that point...its time for this man to get out of this marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is heartless. Make no bones about it. It's not even debatable. You're right..the marriage should never have gotten to this point..so what has HE done to improve it? I agree, it's time for this man to get out of the marriage, so why have the affair and leave your spouse with any doubts as to what occured? By having an affair, you are not allowing your spouse to realize their own deficiencies. They will think the marriage ended because of the A and will never be able to change. There is no justification for an affair.


So what gives, what's your story? If you want to improve your M then we are more than happy to help. If you're looking to justify your affair, go elsewhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If this statement is true, why should the cheating spouse feel guilt? If the other spouse was taking care of the affections and sexual tanks of the other spouse then that person would not have a need to look for an outside affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is NO excuse for having a relationship with anyone other than your spouse while you are still married.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Also.....needs and wants are 2 different things.

I don't recall ever seeing or hearing from anyone that NEEDED an outside affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why isnt thought given to the spouse that does cheat...that if they are neglected for years in the sexual realm of a marriage and denied sex by the other partner do they really think, the neglected spouse isnt going to cheat? Are they that secure in their marriage, which sex is that special bond...that the partner can say NO and the other one is going to stay loyal to the most wonderful gift in life between a man and woman?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's called blind trust.

If you've never had it....you will never understand.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do believe that some spouses take advantage of a marriage. Greed for money, social status, that basic needs are fully neglected. I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry....I DID NOT MAKE my H have an affair. I had nothing to do with HIS decision to have an affair. That was soley his choosing.

I was at fault for my part in the destruction of my marriage. My H was at fault for having an affair.

I think you need to do a little more reading on the Harley Principles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would hate to think I lived with a man 12 years and he had to hold pent up feelings for wanting affections and sex...and you want to call that heartless because he cheats? The marriage should have never gotten to that point...its time for this man to get out of this marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are correct....the marriage should never get to that point, but all too often it does.

Yes...maybe it is time for this man to get out of his marriage.....not all marriage will last no matter what you do to try to save them....but he should get out before seeking anyone else.

I'm not really sure why you are here....other than to tell all of us BS's that our WS's affairs were our fault which won't go over well at all....since it's not true.

Are you assuming that all A's are about sex? My H and I had a good sex life. He picked up some gutter slut in bar. There is much more to a marriage, how about the word commitment? So if WS and OP don't have sex anymore then he's justified to have another A? Maybe he wasn't giving enough instead of he other way around. An A is a selfish act regardless of the reasons. And if WS was so unhappy then why don't they leave the M first and then find someone else? NO AFFAIR IS JUSTIFIED UNDER "ANY" CIRCUMSTANCES111111111111

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyn1018:
[QB] Are you assuming that all A's are about sex? My H and I had a good sex life. He picked up some gutter slut in bar. There is much more to a marriage, how about the word commitment? So if WS and OP don't have sex anymore then he's justified to have another A? Maybe he wasn't giving enough instead of he other way around. An A is a selfish act regardless of the reasons. And if WS was so unhappy then why don't they leave the M first and then find someone else? NO AFFAIR IS JUSTIFIED UNDER "ANY" CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WS's have choices and so does OP.

It may be true that a small percentage of cheaters think this way "I'm protecting my spouse by lieing about the affair", but for my case and several others I've read here, they, (WS) are in "selfish-mode", and are looking out for number 1.

As was my then-H during his affairs. At one point I found written on his note pad, along with a to do list for moving <unbeknownst to me>, "Hell to pay when she finds out".

Just who do you think he was worried about "paying hell" for discovery. Certainly not me. He was worried about himself and any hurt or inconvenience HE may incur from my discovery.

I just think this article is not representing the majority of WS's feelings when active <operative word> in an affair. I truly believe the WS's are only looking out for themselves during it, and it's the rare exception the one's that are genuinely worried about the BS feelings.

You should really spend time reading the stories here, it would help you understand better all the nuances, affects and severe outcome affairs have on our society and the innocent people impacted.

Jo

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> do they really think, the neglected spouse isnt going to cheat? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the point has already been made but I'll take a stab at it.

If a spouse is neglected, and treated poorly in the M....that spouse should EXIT the M..keeping integrity, and morals in place...period.

There is never a justified reason to "step outside the marriage"...under any circumstances...that's the cowards way out.

IMVHO

"If the other spouse was taking care of the affections and sexual tanks of the other spouse then that person would not have a need to look for an outside affair."

Hmmmm....

Possible reasons the betrayed spouse may not have been "taking care of the affections and sexual tanks" of the adulterous spouse:

The adulterous spouse may have failed to communicate what their needs are

The adulterous spouse may have some unrealistic (limitless, bottomless pits of need) which NOBODY really can fulfill. Each of us have a responsibility to accurately evaluate whether our needs are truly justifiable and possible to fulfill. Sometimes an overly needy person needs individual counseling to determine WHY they are so exsessively needy.

The adulterous spouse may have failed to meet the betrayed spouse's needs. This would eventually make the betrayed spouse feel less like meeting the adulterous spouse's needs. Don't naively assume that the adulterous spouse pays the same sort of quality attention to his faithful wife that he does to the other woman. That's just part of the lie to con the other woman into feeling sorry for the married man - he puts on a charming show so the other woman assumes the wife must be cold and cruel to neglect such a sweet man... The truth is if adulterous married men treated their wives half as well as they do the other woman (usually womEn - don't assume you're the only one who's accepted the invitation to his pity party), they'd be getting PLENTY of sex at home!

The adulterous spouse may be failing to help out in practical ways that would give the betrayed spouse more time and energy to meet the adulterous spouse's needs for sex and affection. Why assume that the same fella who whines to a willing adulteress that his wife won't give him sex, helps out with the kids and chores so his wife CAN have sex with him? Maybe you're just rewarding a married man for being lazy at home?

The adulteress spouse may be rejecting the betrayed spouse's attempts to meet his needs. (BTW, this is VERY common with affairs - it is rarely simply a matter of unmet needs being filled in by the adultery partner.) Maybe his wife WOULD meet his needs... if he'd let her?
Sometimes the adulterous spouse has emotional problems and/or was raised with an adulterous father role model? When that's the case, counseling is needed - not somebody to cheat with.

Maybe the adulterous spouse is really afraid to let the marriage/faithful spouse meet all their needs because they fear commitment, are too afraid to put all that trust in one person because they want to protect themselves from getting hurt? Some adulterers won't let any one person meet all their needs - not their spouse OR the other person(s). Again, counseling is needed - not adultery.

Of course, in MANY cases, the adulterous spouse is just lying to the other person - the faithful spouse IS giving them plenty of sex and affection... but hey, if they can con some sympathetic fool into giving them some too, then why not? ESPECIALLY if they're the sort who isn't bothered much by guilt.

Hmmmm....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kay52:
<strong> ".... I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault. I would hate to think I lived with a man 12 years and he had to hold pent up feelings for wanting affections and sex...and you want to call that heartless because he cheats? The marriage should have never gotten to that point...its time for this man to get out of this marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog babble. But welcome to MB anyways. So are you the one whose time it is 'for this man to get out of this marriage', the BS or the OW?

BTW, this is not to stero type what you posted but it certainly leans in a particular direction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ever heard of His Needs/Her Needs? Howz about Giver/Taker? Both are books by Dr W. Harley. There are ways to communicate with both spouses. You probably already do it with other other of the female persuasion but not necessarily with your W. Why not? On the flip side, what is holding your W back from being intimate with you? 12 years is a long time to wonder. Get off the pot and find out before you wander down the path of adultery, infidelity causing great hurt and pain to your entire family regardless of your justification.

1 thing you won't find here is a reason to have an A.

L.

Bravo meremortal!

I loved your post,it describes what I have been feeling about my WH all along.I know I wasn't insane.Sometimes,it truly is just the fault of the WS and nothing more.All this talk about BS's having a hand in a WS's CHOICE by contributing to the condition of the marriage beforehand is ludicrous.No one held a gun to my WH's ahead and said "CHEAT".He made that decision completely on his own despite whatever the state of our marriage was.Adultery is NEVER the answer to anything,no matter what.

No pity parties!

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by Kay52:
I don't always believe that an affair is a heartless act near as much as the desiring spouse who wants to be intimate with his own wife and she fully denies him...she is totally at fault.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What a totally bizarre post.

Are you here to Marriage Build or WHAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pep