Hello Board.....The other day I posted that I almost withdrew money to give to WW for her to move out. I did not pull the money out and I received quite a few posts about NOT doing it.

Last night was not a good night. Actually, to me it was a good night and a bad night. WW and I spoke until 0230 in the morning. First time since the OM "broke off the relationship". I observed the first stages of withdrawal (anger which I now know you must go through to get to intimacy and rebuilding). The problem is that WW has shown no intention of working on our M. I'm not asking her about the future or pressuring her in anyway. Plan Aing my a** off and trying to maintain.

Last nights conversation mostly centered around her desires to still move out "to find herself". RED FLAG based on what I've learned here. I don't think the R with OM is off. It may be considering her precious cell phone doesn't show any calls in/out to OM but who knows what goes on at work. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me at this point!

I'm by no means giving up the good fight to have my wife and marriage and family back. I am in the mindset that it's time to fly away birdie and enable me get better. I'm a freakin' wreck having her at the house. I was late this morning for work - only the second time in 20+ years in the military. My mind is constantly on what's she thinking, is she coming around, was the fact that we actually had conversation the fog breaking or her back on the fence. I knocked WW and OM right off the fence last week and the results were exactly as expected. Straight from the posts of the experienced ones.

I haven't and will not encourage her to move out. I've told her that numerous times and told her what to expect (DD knowing, finances, etc.). Some of it gets through (primarily the financial part) and other statements are pure FOG! DD will understand that mommy/daddy are having issues. WHAT! Are you kidding me? Our (WW formerly known as W and I) world happens to revolve around our DD and it's amazing to hear that bull**** coming from her mouth. No LB's last night. Saved my frustration for the board.

I did however take the advice of one post. Based on her insistant desire to move out and find herself, I have taken money from one account and put it in our joint account. Only the amount that I was going to take out Monday. I've done this out of my concern that if WW gets lost in the fog, everything we have is still joint. I don't want to give her the option of taking anymore from the family. WW knows the separate accounts/separation agreement is coming - covered that last night. Having her help me develop the separation agreement enabling me to set the boundaries.

If WW wants to move out, she'll have to do the rest. She asked me this morning after I got to work to see if I could go to the bank. I told WW I couldn't do that. This has been and still is her decision and if she decides to move out, you have to "do what you need to do". No LB just honest statement that I'm not helping you decide. I say that because later in the phone call she was asking how clean I thought the apartment was. Told her I don't remember much about that day, I'm sorry can't help with that one either.

I did however call her later in the morning and probed. I asked if she called the apartment folks. WW had called and it's still available. BTW, the first deposit was lost and I made da** sure she new that money has already been taken from our family. I also let her know in subtle ways that if you decide to move out, our lifestyle will be changed. WW remembers exactly what I said last week about not paying a dime for her apartment or anything to do with it.

I know that last statement sounds contradictory and it probably is. I think I had a revelation this morning driving to work. I still love her like when we were first married and I don't want her to leave. I do want her to leave and only come back under my conditions. Right now, she is home because of the cause/effect of exposure. I know I've been told that even though it's not the best situation, WW is still at home and there is a chance. My self preservation, my continue love and support for my W (not my WW) and the love for my family tells me to "let her go - the cage concept". I ask myself, what am I going to do, tie her to the couch and make her stay? I know better and quite honestly, I want her to go and when the time is right (could be 2 days, could be 2 weeks - my time limit isn't set yet), I'm going DARK! Plan B! Feel what you've opened yourself up to losing!

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm sorry that I didn't take the good advice of so many with this one instance. I have and will continue to implement/execute the MB principles and use the advice of the experienced ones. So far almost everything you guys have said would happen, did happen. I just can't continue to watch myself deteriorate any further nor can I continue to have my WW at home making zero/none/nada efforts towards rebuilding. I want to free the bird and if it comes back (which is what I so desparately want) great - if not, I know I tried my best and won't feel guilty about the outcome.

Thanks for listening/reading.......LS

LS,

That is why there is a plan B. You will lose your love for her over time, and not having her in your face everyday will slow this down. However, usually plan B is for when contact continues, and in your case it is not.

hang in there, this stuff seems to get worse before it gets better. She is struggling with a lot right now. Loss of OM, potential loss of you, and yes even her daughter, plus for sure lose of self-respect, and your respect and support. Don't see many wins in that scenario do you, I sure don't.

Being the WS is NOT all it is cracked up to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It is sort of like being the "underdog" in a fight, it is a highly overrated position. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hang in there you are doing well. Give this time and have patience.

God Bless,

JL

ditto JL

I believe going to Plan B depends on whether OM has really ended it. This will be doubly hard to know after she leaves, but you can't Plan B until she leaves. Quite a dilemma.

What is the status of your further contact with OM's Mommy?

WAT

Sailor,
I agree Plan B is to protect you when the WS will not break contact with the OP. After I found an email of my W's where she clearly stated she skipped a IC appointment to go see him and that she would do anything to get him back, I knew Plan B was on the horizon. I didn't even have to give her a plan B letter to leave, she left on her own due to my snooping and repeatedly finding out lie after lie. Now I'm in Plan B, preparing for the serious business of moving on and at the same time demonstrating the calm and peace that is home. I am still new to MB principles so some of my actions weren't as accurate to the principles as I wanted, but I kept trying. I can offer you a shoulder and some opinions but no step by steps, there are others here with more detailed steps you might take. Here's what I think, JMO.

As far as your situation, you are doing alot of the same things I was doing, WRONG mind you. You are frustrated that she isnt helping rebuild the M right? LB's fly from time to time out of that frustration. Is she in withdrawal from not seeing him, if she is that's a good thing, that would mean she isn't seeing him right? I'm not sure which Plan you should be in, I think choosing your plan is very crucial. I Plan A'd for a very long time, too long. I plan A'd so long I was beginning to lose my love for her and I was becoming pass frustrated.

Last nights conversation mostly centered around her desires to still move out "to find herself". RED FLAG based on what I've learned here. I don't think the R with OM is off. It may be considering her precious cell phone doesn't show any calls in/out to OM but who knows what goes on at work. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me at this point!

You're absolutely right that's a big red flag flapping in the wind! It doesn't prove that she is still in contact, but maybe she really wants to be in contact, hard to tell. My W wanted space also, well now she has it. It's dangerous because she might be with OM right now, but it's a chance I have to take.

I am in the mindset that it's time to fly away birdie and enable me get better. I'm a freakin' wreck having her at the house.

Are you really prepared for her to leave? I had to make sure I could handle it, because you must also accept she might be gone for good, this may be IT. If you really are ready, I'm guessing that possiblity is actully better than continuing to live with her while she pursues OM or sees OM.

I just can't continue to watch myself deteriorate any further nor can I continue to have my WW at home making zero/none/nada efforts towards rebuilding. I want to free the bird and if it comes back (which is what I so desparately want) great - if not, I know I tried my best and won't feel guilty about the outcome.

I hope this is how you feel 2 months from now if she's hasn't come to her senses. I'm still new to the MB principles, it's just I don't want you to rush things and put yourself in agony.

Has she agreed to leave? I mean a concrete agreement to leave? My W talked about leaving for months and never did until caught, caught and more caught. I have no idea what OM was saying if and when they talked on her work phone. I might never know if his full involvement in her leaving as far as their plans/if any. My wifes omissions and denials cause everything out of her mouth to be suspect to a coin toss for validity.

Lost,
I just want you to realize that she may be going thru withdrawal and some of the things she's said and is doing seem like withdrawal. I haven't read anything that proves she IS still contacting OM. It's highly probable because it was your exposure of the A that led to her coming back right? At any rate my best hopes are with you. I know you love your family and you want you M to survive this drama. Think on this issue some more before you help her pack. I'll support you either way because it's your call. Only you know how much you of this rollercoaster you can take without collapsing.

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Thanks to all of you....

I guess I was tired when I wrote my earlier post. I would like to add some more if you'll indulge me....

I'm not as upset as my post sounded. I guess frustration played a key role. After my long drive home from work (typically 50 - 60 minutes) coupled with some music <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> , I realized what I posted wasn't exactly my true feelings. They were at the time, but with more thought and being alone on the drive, it gave me some more time to think.

I don't want my WW to leave. My mind is putting together some thoughts that I can neither confirm nor deny. The on again/off again reactions I'm seeing from her certainly rings of withdrawal. The first three days she showed anger a majority of the time. There were moments of "reason" and good conversation/reaction during the first 3 days. I can honestly say that after reading some other posts, I'm somewhat lucky. My WW hasn't acted with malice at all. Just obvious anger from what has occurred. WW certainly blames me for the possible demise of her A which is fine but she hasn't thrown anything, pulled anything "stupid", just some hurtful fog talk. Some of which I could see (or thought I saw) pain in her face from saying it.

Today has been completely different. WW has been receptive. Had a great dinner with WW and DD. We all watched a movie together and laughed. WW has stated things like:

"I hope moving out helps with my anger management" followed by a smile.
"I'm putting us in dire staights, huh?"
"I hope I'm only gone for a couple of months"
"My stomach is queasy and I'm not sure what to do"

Days like today are what makes my mind wonder about not contacting OM. Resembles the actions when WW was on the fence before exposure.

What I do know is that WW confirmed the apartment is still available and WW worked a deal with them. WW expects to give them the money tomorrow.

WW is lost in the fog of believing that although she'll be living elsewhere, she'll be spending most of her time here. I honestly can say that I will allow that for awhile but not too long. My thought is that I want to Plan A some more while WW is dealing with sleeping alone; not seeing DD at night before bed; not eating dinner with us; you know, the things that most FAMILIES do everyday. In my mind, I'm wondering how long until I actually go to Plan B. I may be thinking too hard on implementing the knowledge I have gained from this board.

I did stick to the financial issues last night and today. Looks like I'll be able to have WW sign a separation agreement (180 out from the first time we discussed it). WW "plans" to open her own account (based on me providing clear boundaries last night - nothing different than before - I'm not paying for any of the apartment if SHE decides to leave). Sounds contradictory, but WW hasn't left yet and we have joint everything (accounts, deeds, etc.) I'm taking over all financial responsibilites for my family. Something that I haven't done since we were married. Not that I'm incapable, just that WW enjoyed it. Probably something that I could have been more helpful with in lieu of just giving her all of my money. A positive note is that WW has never acted irresponsible nor has she ever denied explaining where every penny is spent.

I don't want to ramble. Sometimes it helps but I know reading long posts isn't always best.

To answer some questions......

WAT....I haven't spoken to OM's mother and not sure if I want to at this juncture. She has made her points clear to OM and actually caused the reaction I was hoping for - OM to break off the A. I will probably contact her in the future but I'm working other exposure avenues. All dependent upon finding out whether contact is still occurring.

JL/FM....I don't want my wife to leave. I know this will get worse before it gets better. I just can't escape the feeling that if WW doesn't leave and then want to return to work on our M, then our relationship may never get to where I hope it will get. Like so many recovering posters here; marriages better than before. I've been told to not let her leave, but other than strapping her to the couch, I can only Plan A and not LB. BTW, I haven't LB'd once since this started - hard for me to believe but I reflect every night and I'm certain of it. There are even some instances where I tell myself, you could have done better with your reverse babble.

I guess what's done is done. The "joint" money (a.k.a. Family money) is in the account and that's all I've done. I'm not taking it out and giving it to her. WW will have to go through with it. The rest is her decision and all other damaging actions will lay with her. I won't allow destruction of myself and DD, but I won't stop her from making wrong decisions. I've got my protection/financial affairs in order. Now I'm leaving it up to her to reap the benefits of poor decisions, wrong decisions and if warranted - good decisions. Like coming out of the fog tomorrow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Once again thanks for listening and I do cherish the advice received. I use what I can, plant the others in my mind and when needed, pull em' out. I'm still in Plan A and working the Plan B timeine/issues.

God Bless this forum for "lost sailors" (a.k.a. BS's and WS's) and God Bless those who have such wisdom and experience.......LS

LS,
You are a role model yourself there buddy and it looks like your are handling this trauma with an even temper. No LB's? Fantastic! I wish I could say that, but I think I was in a "GIVER" state for too long and my "TAKER" had to be vindicated. At any rate, I see there are moments of slight clearing. I was wondering how your W communicated with OM and is there anyway for you to gauge if she is still in contact? Did she use email, cellphones or in person? check into that, it might help you decide if further exposure is overkill or just what the doctor ordered.

Thanks for responding to my post last night. If I could have held off just a few more minutes and read it, I'm sure I wouldn't have snooped in my W's email account. BAD MOVE, but only because I had to leave my footprints to do it. I mean what can she expect me to do? I have no idea where she is and she's my wife. The only setback is that I'm in Plan B which means "No Contact" Period! I'm starting again, re-evaluating why I crumbled and what to do next time. I'll be checking back in on you, if possible plan some small fun things for you and your W to do this weekend. Cram as much smiles as you can into her memory bank before she leaves, remember: When she's away you want her to have vivid memories of good times, smiles and that family atmosphere.

Take care and keep doing your thing, it aint over until we say it is.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Im in giver mode as well and its Hard....i wish she would leave just to give me some space.....She is carrying on with OM on phone while at home and she knows i know it.

She is trying to push my buttons and get me to leave and it aint going to work.

i just dont know how much more i can take.