Well, we are in a slow recovery and we are hitting on some big topics. We've discussed why choosing to have an A is never the right choice, that my H had other options, and that he alone is responsible for making the choice. Now we're on the topic of marriage vows. In my opinion, if we're going to recover then I need to hear that my H takes his M vows as seriously as I do in the future.

I'm trying to explain what I thought we talked about so many times before our M, but I'm not finding the right words after the devastation of an A. I feel like every time I start to discuss it, I feel a huge amount of pain & betrayal and I want to say -- It should be obvious! Just listen to the words you promised to me and to God -- "forsake all others" "love, honor, cherish" etc. etc. But it's coming across as a love buster or I feel myself about to LBust. Can anyone help me summarize why it's important to keep your M vows and to try to work things out even in bad times or even when your spouse doesn't seem to be doing the right thing? Thanks

cuteis...

first off for succesful recocery...you must be in counseling...
must.

so if you aren't then get to it
if you are then my question is the marriage vow talk sanctioned by the counselor...

cause you may want to back off from deep conversations that can leave both feeling frustrated and isolated....and focus more on the actions and energy that make a good marriage...

and really in the end...that's really what our vows are..
the
act
of
loving
cherishing
honoring


are you doing these things in your actions and words....

if he doing these things..

what is the atmosphere in the home..
dark heavy atonement and burdensome
constant deep conversation...

you need to seek and create a balance...

mostly you need recovery counseling...

ARK

Ark,

Thanks for your reply - as usual, I think you are 100% correct. We need to focus on the actions. Yes, we're in MC, but I'm not thrilled so I keep looking for someone better.

As far as the home atmosphere, no dark atonement, no punishment, just trying to give lots of love & understanding & a safe environment. Our general theme has been trying to understand one another and heal the wounds with love, not anger. We are also scheduling set times to talk about heavy stuff, and then trying to have lots of relaxing/fun/non-heavy times in between.

I'm still hurting a lot and I feel like my H is not doing enough (my taker is coming out, I guess), but I'm trying to be strong and think of it as doing more Plan A until all the fog is gone. I guess I also don't feel like I completely trust him not to do this again or believe that he really understands the pain I felt over his betrayal and cruel treatment of me.

This all came up because he said that after I discovered the A, he "broke-up" with me, and so at the time he didn't feel that his post-break-up A actions were bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> My response - we weren't dating, we were M'd and you don't just break-up when you're M'd. This conversation upset me a lot and I had to tell him that I needed a few minutes and I left the room. This is what led to talking about how we each see M and how we view our M vows as one of our "M talks." IMO, if we aren't on the same page as far as M vows and the importance of M, then I'm losing hope about the future of our recovery. Maybe I'm just weary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Dear CIH,

It seems to me this is guilt-fog.
You would want your H to say (and so would I) something like: "Such vows are really meaningful to me, I'm so glad I took them with you and they fill my heart with love for you."
He cannot say that, not even think that. He broke those vows. And that's what they are about - you promise these things because they may come naturally when you're in love, but you need to stick to them when times are bad. And he didn't.
He realises very well what he has done by breaking them & all the hurt he has caused you. It's rather painful for him, I guess, to be reminded of what he did when you bring up this subject. So don't, not until you're in a good place with each other and would consider re-taking those vows, for example.

The "I broke up with you" thing is more guilt-fog. My H tried to feed me the "but it was just sex" and "it didn't really happen that often" lines. They're just desperately trying to justify their actions because it isn't easy to confront the guilt of hurting a person you love.
So don't take such remarks too seriously, even if that seems impossible.

Most of the time the WS will slowly come out of the fog and maybe even deny they would ever have said such a stupid thing.