Haven't posted for a while. Here's what's happening ... I will try to be succinct, hope you can follow me.

FWH and I were planning a vacation together. Two days before, I discovered a TM from OW. With the many instances of NC and recontact, I had decided that one more time would be the straw that broke the camel's back. So, in my mind we would get back from vacation and start separation/divorce proceedings.

The vacation was wonderful! By the time we returned home, I had changed my mind. I felt that we were really getting conncted again. I think he felt the same way.

But once we get back and he heads back to work, I feel distance creeping in again. In my mind, I felt that he probably was in contact again.

Sent him an email on Wednesday telling him what a great time I had on vacation. Told him that I sensed a change when he went back to work. Mentioned that I thought he probably was in contact with OW again. He didn't reply at all.

Had counseling with my IC last night and worked through some things. One of my problems is that every time I feel distance, I immediately think of the A. She said this is normal and what else would I expect to do? So I decided to ask him about it, why didn't he respond to email, etc.

Well, that didn't go well ... to put it mildly!

Prior to vacation, I had a phone conversation with OW telling her that she can have him. In that conversation, she said that their contact the previous week had just been a Hi, how are you doing? I asked her to forward emails to me. She hadn't done that and I sent her an email on Tuesday. So yesterday (Thursday) she sent me an email that said they had been deleted, but that she wasn't in contact with him anymore.

When I talked with FWH last night, he said he didn't reply because I get angry when he tells me how he is feeling. This is true. I do get angry because I want him to feel more love for me than he does, than he can give me now.

He said he had been feeling much better about our R, thinking that we can get through this and come out on the other side. But that this conversation was setting us WAY back!

We discussed his returning to IC and also discussed church. This is when it turned UGLY! He said no one will tell him what to do. He will not cow-tow to anyone.

I remained calm pretty much the whole time until he mentioned earning something ... and I got angry and said he hadn't earned any trust from me. He has proven time and time again that he can't be trusted. My instincts on this A have usually been correct ... if I think they're in contact, they usually have been.

He said I LB about once a week when discussing the A, accusing him of contact. This is a major problem for me. I DO need to discuss it! I DO get angry with him. I AM suspicious of his every move.

He said to ask my MB friends if this is helping or hindering our recovery. I know the answer ... it's a hinderance. But I just feel the strong need to talk about it. I continue to need reassurances from him that everything is OK ... that there is NC ... that we're still trying to reconnect and make our M better.

He said now we have been set WAY back in our recovery. He's not feeling the same way he had been about us.

The PROUDEST moment I had was when he told me that OW had called him on his cell and he didn't answer. This was HUGE for me! I was extremely proud and grateful to him!

She left a message saying tell your wife to leave me alone. If she messes with me, or with me and my work, I will take you down with me too. I never have any intention of getting her in trouble at work, as I know that it would directly affect me ... i.e. she would expose my husband and he would probably lose his job. (They do not work in the same office.)

HELP! I REALLY BLEW IT! Need some assistance as to what I should do with these feelings of suspicion.

Of course you are feeling insecure - it seems like he is a cake eater. Tell WH that your MB friends think that your LB'ing isn't good for recovery. But his contact with OW is the real problem. Also tell him that your MB friends think that you should expose them both at work.

In fact, see if he will post, and I will tell him myself.

Dear HFH,

the real stumbling block here, it seems to me, is the continued contact between your H and OW. Wow this would bother me big time. This contact in itself is a major LB.

No contact means no contact - no text messages, no e-mails, no nothing!! Has this been clear for your H or is he thinking "Oh we're just friends now so it's all right if we still have some innocent contact from time to time?"

It's not alright. You need 100% no contact or it will impossible to feel in a good place with your H and your M again. I know - I've been there - I thought I could deal with still seeing OW (who even was my best friend) but boy was I wrong. It kept upsetting me even though OW and H did "nothing wrong". So I had to impose the NC to get my peace of mind back.

"She left a message saying tell your wife to leave me alone. If she messes with me, or with me and my work, I will take you down with me too."

Wow, she sounds like a real winner.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said to ask my MB friends if this is helping or hindering our recovery. I know the answer ... it's a hinderance. But I just feel the strong need to talk about it. I continue to need reassurances from him that everything is OK ... that there is NC ... that we're still trying to reconnect and make our M better.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok I'll bite Mr. HFH !!

SEEKING REASSURANCE AND MAKING SURE THERE IS NO CONTACT IS NOT AN LB.

One more time for good measure....SEEKING REASSURANCE AND QUESTIONING CONTACT IS NOT AN LB.

NC has been broken on more than one occassion. You've promised to NOT be in contact with OW...period.... and then...you've been in contact.

You can't be taken for your word so easily.

And transferring blame onto the BS on hindering the recovery IS an LB. How on earth is it the BS fault that they feel insecure and mistrusting ?

Hmmm.....

I'm not trying to be harsh...and that cow-tow comment bothered me. Obviously there is a NEED for some type of counseling or else you both wouldn't be in the situation you're in right now.

Please...think about this. Counseling...on ANY level can be taken with a grain of salt. You have absolutely NOTHING to lose. I find very FEW MC bashing the WS for the A.

Everyone has everything to gain and nothing to lose. How could you avoid something that has the potential to make you both better people, with the best M to be found ?

Hang in there....recovery isn't a short fix...it takes some time.

Wishing you both well !!

Thanks for your replies. I don't want my FWH to get blasted here and I don't want to get blasted. Just want to make our M stronger and better. Having a hard time figuring out the steps.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No contact means no contact - no text messages, no e-mails, no nothing!! Has this been clear for your H or is he thinking "Oh we're just friends now so it's all right if we still have some innocent contact from time to time?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">brownhair, this has been clear, but I don't think that he has really gotten it ... until now. And she appears to have really gotten it, too. Anyway that's what they both say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SEEKING REASSURANCE AND MAKING SURE THERE IS NO CONTACT IS NOT AN LB.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BIJ, But maybe I'm going about it the wrong way. Is there a "proper" way to do this? Help me out here, please, MB friends.

We had been in counseling ... had done rather well. NC for 5 weeks ... then he had to go and have a birthday, which she had to acknowledge and ... wahlah, the EA is back on again.

He said he knows he probably needs counseling, but isn't ready to go back yet. He won't have me or anyone tell him what he should do ... and that includes going back to counseling. Guess if I hadn't have mentioned it, maybe he would be back by now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She left a message saying tell your wife to leave me alone </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who got this message ? How was it sent ? TM ? Email ?

The only wrong way to confirm NC is being adhered to is to make a LB...LBs that fit this situation include...angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, or selfish demands.

Now... if you seek reassurance using any of the 3 above..then YES...it is an LB. Which one are you guilty of ?

Anger ?

That is a very difficult one to overcome. Especially when dealing with infidelity. Of course your angry.

If you eliminate the ANGER..then it's not an LB.

What bothered me the most is this statement :

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't want my FWH to get blasted here and I don't want to get blasted </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could be wrong, but I think I'm seeing a pattern develop.

I think your H is more in the early stages of withdrawal then recovery.

Every time contact was made, recovery was set back to day ONE.

As many times as he's hindered recovery, why is it that you feel YOU BLEW IT ?

I think you're being WAY to hard on yourself. Everything you're feeling is perfectly normal and expected !

What is your FWH doing...to ASSURE you...that NC is in place ? WITHOUT YOU ASKING ???????????

Let's start there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Who got this message ? How was it sent ? TM ? Email ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWH got this voice message from OW on his cell phone.

Onto LBs ... Angry Outbursts, that's me to a "T". Sometimes our conversations start out fine, then he'll say something that I don't like ... usually how he's not feeling very loving toward me or having a hard time not being able to talk to OW ... and it sets me off. I don't always end up yelling, but even if I don't yell, I'm angry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think your H is more in the early stages of withdrawal then recovery.

Every time contact was made, recovery was set back to day ONE.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what stinks big-time. By now, we should be much farther along in our recovery! The first time NC was made was in October of last year ... then November ... then December ... you get the picture.

And I know that each time contact was reestablished, we were sent reeling back to day one. I don't know if he understands this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As many times as he's hindered recovery, why is it that you feel YOU BLEW IT ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guess that would be the ole Catholic guilt coming out!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is your FWH doing...to ASSURE you...that NC is in place ? WITHOUT YOU ASKING ???????????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While on vacation, he held my hand, smiled at me, laughed with me, made me feel good. Now he said he's not interested in doing any of those things ... that I've made him so angry he's feeling like leaving again and just being on his own, without me, without OW. He said this while in a very angry state, so I don't know if he actually meant it and still feels that way, or if he was just spouting off ... as I tend to do also when I'm angry.

HFH,
BOTH of you have to work at this. I don't see the "effort" on your FWH part.

You had a good time on vacation..... how does that reassure you that he's not in contact with OW ? How does that reassure you that your H is committed to making your M work ?

Why does she have the cell phone number ? Why hasn't he changed it ?

His threat of leaving to be on his own means what ?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes our conversations start out fine, then he'll say something that I don't like ... usually how he's not feeling very loving toward me or having a hard time not being able to talk to OW ... and it sets me off. I don't always end up yelling, but even if I don't yell, I'm angry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's responsible for his own hell. He waivers back and forth, back and forth, NC, C...this is his chaos. He's swimming in it. And there you are...trying to go with the flow. Of course your emotions are pushing you.

Particularly this line,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">having a hard time not being able to talk to OW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well what does that accomplish ? That doesn't help your M at all.

He has to stay NC. Period. After a reasonable amount of time, his feelings about not being able to call OW will go away. He'll realize it's more trouble than it's worth and he'll see things differently.

Until such time that he makes a decision and sticks with it, whatever results that are happening or are not happening are not made by effort, they are chance occurences.

People make mistakes, everyone is redeemable.... but his redemption is not in YOUR hands. It's in his.

You control YOU. Work on the angry outbursts...and you'll work through the issues better. I know it's difficult..because you have every right to be angry. And there's no place to disburse the anger.

Your FWH is trying to recover from an illness. He is reinfected every time contact is made. How does he know how he really feels about the M if he hasn't really given it a fighting chance ?

Stay in Plan A.... when a month or two goes by of NC...firmly NC...he will start to feel differently, but he will never know unless he tries

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You had a good time on vacation..... how does that reassure you that he's not in contact with OW ? How does that reassure you that your H is committed to making your M work ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I feel reassured when he is engaged with me, with our children, with the house, with our extended families. During the height of their EA/PA, he was pretty disconnected from most everything that used to be important to him. He's definitely plugged back in to his life and I can see that, for the most part, he is getting happier and more content just "being."

He had said, "Is this all there is to life?" He seemed disappointed with his life ... go to work, come home to family, watch TV, go to bed, get up and do it all over again. He had gained some weight (but he hasn't lost his hair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). He felt that we were boring.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You control YOU. Work on the angry outbursts...and you'll work through the issues better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup ... this is my goal. It's something I know I need to change. I fight it, but then end up giving in. I have to tell myself to STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

One thing I had always done poorly was share my negative feelings with my husband. I was good at sharing positives, being upbeat and optimistic. But if I were upset or angry, I would hold it in, disconnect, walk away. I'm now trying to communicate how I'm feeling BEFORE I totally blow up, and if I'm talking about something unrelated to the A, I think I do pretty well. When it's an A discussion, things go haywire with me.

Anyway, thanks for your words. It really helps to get out my emotions and have someone respond.