Last Friday I walked into a book store and picked up a book, led purely by my intuition and knowing there was something there that I needed to read. I came to a book called Healing Zen by Ellen Birx. I posted about one of the things that was very important to me over on SYMC's board. (Here's a link if you're interested.)

Somehow, though, what I want to talk about right now seems to fit here more. I think it's because there have been so many deaths that have touched so many lives here in the past several months. LIR's mom, Pepperband's mom, Bob Pure's OM's son, and many more that I'm not thinking of right now.

My WP's grandmother is very old. She turned 94 in January, and in June she had a stroke. She has been slowly fading since then, and she is now at the very end of her life. She is unable to eat or drink -- there is little that can be done, and her daughter who is in charge of her care has decided that there will be no more medical intervention.

She is in hospice care -- has been for more than a week, since they stopped being able to feed her. I this last bit out last night.

WP has not told me about her grandmother's condition, though this is someone who I have known for 18 years, someone who has cared for me as a member of her family for most of that time. I have not been allowed to see her in more than a year.

Unsurprisingly, there was a tremendous desire to keep me away from her now as well. WP, bless her soul, found me a way to see her last night. She basically snuck me in after her aunt had left for the night, and before her parents arrived. She has told me that me being seen there would create a huge scene - and I'm grateful to her for taking the risk that she took.

When I got there, WP's grandma was asleep. She's lost a great deal of weight since I last saw her. She didn't have her hearing aids in, so I couldn't talk to her (she's profoundly deaf) and she only opened her eyes once.

But... when I touched her hand, she grabbed mine and wouldn't let go. She held my hand for more than an hour.

When I told WP this, she said, "No, YOU held HER hand." I had to laugh. WP's grandma has always been a strong woman -- and she would not let go of my hand last night. I finally had to have the aide take her hand instead, so that someone was holding it.

So we sat there, her holding my hand, for a long long while. While we were there, I talked to the aide about how Irene has been, how the last couple of months were for her. I don't know how they work it in most places, but this aide has been assigned to her since a couple of days after she went to the hospital, and has been with her every night except Saturdays ever since.

So we talked about who'd been to see her, and how things were. I got a sense for the family situation and the difficulties, the sadness and the times when there have been struggles between family members.

And mostly I just sat there and was present with Irene. She always used to complain that my hands were cold -- and they were cold last night when I got there. Her hand -- as it always is -- was gloriously warm and strong and comforting.

She knew I was there and knew, I think, who I was. And I'm very, very glad that I spent the time with her.

I watched her breathe, observed the restfulness of it, and sometimes the pain of it, and the pauses when she didn't breathe... and then started again. I breathed with her as her chest rose and fell.

Healing Zen calls this being present, and discusses how healing can come from being entirely present with someone, no matter how much pain the person is in. The person who is suffering needs to know that there is someone there, someone with them, someone who accepts who and where they are.

We are all suffering.

We all need this knowledge.

And in this case, Irene gave that healing to me, even as I was able to give a little of it to her.

When I was a child, people who were elderly and sick made me uncomfortable. I was unable to breathe with them, unable to comprehend life in the shell of a body that had long since ceased to function as it seemed to be designed to function. I was profoundly confused by the aging process, considered it to be entirely unfair.

Last night for the first time, I was able to sit in rest -- in acceptance -- and understand that dying is part of living. There isn't a sudden switch from one to the other. They're both there all the time.

My DD is 19 months old and she won't remember her GG (stands for Great-Grand...). There will only be the pictures of an elegant white-haired lady, always laughing or smiling in the pictures, always seeming to have bright warm eyes and a welcome for all who came near.

I spent some time last night writing about DD's GG, about the things that I remember of her, the blessings she's given to me and to DD. I wrote about her learning to turn a computer on and off -- about her stamping her foot when WP and I wanted to share our dessert -- about her walking around the grocery store at 92 years old. Carrying a newspaper with two women and a newborn baby on the front of it. Two women who, when she learned of their relationship, she'd cried and been completely frightened by the though that her granddaughter was a lesbian.... and their newborn daughter.

And what did she say, to each and every person she met in the grocery store that day? She said, "That's my great-granddaughter!! Look here!! This is MY great-granddaughter!!!"

I suspect that the 40 or 50 people she talked to that day will never forget the spry old lady who was talking to them about a same-sex couple and their daughter, who was speaking with utter pride and conviction that this was the most wonderful news in the world.

She will, in all likelihood, die before I'm able to see her again. When I spoke to WP today, she made it clear that she didn't want me to come again, even in the middle of the night when it's likely no one else would be around. She expects screaming fits from her aunt and parents should I be seen anywhere near her dying grandmother.

She said that I would, of course, do exactly what I wanted to do no matter what she said. She seemed to think that this was a crime of mine, something to lay at my feet as proof of the awfulness of that which is me.

I'm so sorry for her, the poor thing. She's so frightened by so many things. So hurt and angry, and so caught up in the whirlwind of her family's struggles.

Tonight I'm going to go again to the Friday night services that drew me downtown last week. I'll pray for Irene -- and pray for the healing of her family. They are shattered now, and until this morning I couldn't see the pattern of the breaking.

Because, you see -- as they have tried to end my relationship with my DD, and as they have tried to keep me from people that I love, they have visited those same things upon each other. For several generations, now that I stop to think about it.

I have great compassion and sympathy for them... and I see that this shattering is not yet finished. Soon, very soon, it will end. But not yet.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

Just J I nursed my Dad and my Mom through theoir deaths along with many relatives.I have , as a result, advisedmany friends though these difficult times.

Its strange that my advice is very similar to your Zen example: Stay as close as you can against your instinct: your loved ones are ALIVE until the VERY SECOND that they are dead. Do not abandon them for your comfort. Staying close will help heal your grief sooner once they are gone.

Also, I have found that staying close to, and speaking honestly with my Mom and my Dad through their last journey was a privilege. It was aTRUE privilege to be welcomed into sharing their last walk with them. Both parents left this earth without fear, and without unsaid things between them and me.

I ensured my kids were close to my Mon too during her walk out of our world. It helped my kids and it helped my Mom.

" death, where is thy sting?" . Stay close in love and faith and death has a less abising sting, believe me.

Just J, thank you for sharing that wonderful story with us. Very beautiful and profound. I am interested in this book. My mother has 100% dimentia, and has lived in a nursing home for about the last 11 or 12 years. She lost her faculties while I was in my adolesence, and I have yet to make sense of the entire thing. And perhaps it is more than making sense, but acceptance.

I think I will add this book onto my growing list to purchase or check out from the library. I believe in healing by being present and in the moment, but it is difficult for me with her. It feels draining, when I know it shouldn't.

Thank you for sharing on a topic that really hits home for me.

SS

Just J -

This thread has a lot of meaning for me, as I held my grandma's hand while she died just a few months after my parents died.

I grew up with death, caring for the elderly and cared for my dad during the final 5 years of his life. He died of alchoholism which is a very hideous way to die, the stench is unimaginable. My 17 year old nephew would carry him up to the bathroom to bathe him, my 4 year old daughter would sit on the table, talking to him, wiping the spittle off of his chin as he tried desparately to talk to her.

Much to the protest of my families that I remove my daughter and nephew from the unpleasantness, I refused. They were even surprised I let my daughter who was 4 at the time attend the wakes, and funerals.

I believe that death is as much a part of life, as life is, and I hope that my daughter continues all her life being as unafraid of the old, the sick, and the pitiful as she is today.

I am incredibly proud of my nephew also, he never flinched, never showed repulsion or anger in all of the 5 years we went though this -he loved his grandpa that much.

Thank you Just J for this thread.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Interesting thread - especially since Elizabeth Kubler-Ross just died this week. Author of "On Death and Dying" among other books. You might enjoy reading her books if you haven't already. She was a pioneer in the field of writing about death. I found great peace in her book and several others.

{{{{{JustJ}}}}} Thank you for sharing, you took me back to my MIL's last days. It is a blessing to be there at the very end but sometimes this is not fated. I'm so glad that you had the opportunity to have a meaningful time with GG. I'm sure it will be a precious memory forever and something to share with DD when she is older.

There is a site that I've been meaning to check out in greater detail, Beyond Indigo that explores death and dying. Perhaps it will be a help to you, JustJ. Blessings to you, KB

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts. Bob, you're right about staying close at the end. I'm sorry that I'm not able to be there more with Irene, but am glad that I had the time I was given.

WP has been downright awful the last few days, and her words regarding me going to see Irene again were particularly full of venom. Although I recognize the pain that created those words, it nonetheless makes me think less of WP for having uttered them.

So instead I spent last night going to services and in prayer, and have spent today doing things that kept DD and me engaged and entertained. My thoughts are with Irene and it's odd to be out in the heat and sunshine while she is in a quiet room working on dying. Still, it's where I am meant to be, apparently.

SS, I'm glad I was able to help in some small way -- facing dementia in a parent has got to be incredibly tough, and I don't know how I would face it.

Weaver, thank you for the story about your nephew and your daughter. It clarifies something that had been in the back of my head about how I would like my own DD to be able to see those who are broken in body and spirit.

starz, I realized after you replied that I'd read of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's death while I was waiting in line at the sandwich shop. That must've been, unconsciously, where I got the title to the thread from.

And thanks for the web site, KB! I'll have a look at it. Possibly now, if DD stays asleep for a bit longer, possibly later tonight.

::::Healing Zen calls this being present, and discusses how healing can come from being entirely present with someone, no matter how much pain the person is in. The person who is suffering needs to know that there is someone there, someone with them, someone who accepts who and where they are.

this is one thing I regret. I was too out of it, after d-day to spend time with my mother. her final days were too, too lonely. Why didn't I find the strength to spend more time with her? I'd been a wonderful daughter to her for 50 yrs and at the end I was mostly absent - because of my H's A.

I think she forgave me - because she had lived thru the pain of betrayal herself. But, if so regret not being there for her when she needed me most.

There is a lot to learn, isn't there.

J, I am too tired to say much, but you still have support from this end. Prayers and all.

Smile, it's good for your face.

SS

Dear JustJ,
What a beautiful and touching story. Thank you for sharing it.
Holistic healing has been a large part of my life and I could so completely relate to your experience with Irene. How very sad that the experience was overshadowed with such a lot of other painful issues. You have been very courageous and unselfish in the way that you have handled things.
There is expression.... Healing into death..It isn't about a failure to live....It is about the continuity of life in some form after death, it is about seeing death as a natural transition, a form of rebirth or of crossing over. I have seen a lot of death, both from family and from patients that I have been with at the end. It can be a most beautiful, meaningful time. The description of "being present" is so important for both the dying person and as Bob said for those they leave behind. It is a time when all time is suspended, and you merge with, and support their soul in the process that is underway. It is not always easy to die, it is experienced for many a final and terrible loss. We often forget that they feel all the grief of losing us too, when they know they are leaving. Sometimes, thanks to modern medicine, the process can be almost pain free, but unfortunately that isn't granted to everyone. If there is a loving presence with you, to give you support in those final days, hours, minutes, it can be the difference of dying sorrowful and dying with a sense of having been deeply cared about. Not everybody has the blessing of a loved one near. You were able to give Irene that gift.
Sometimes it is the hands of a caring "stranger" who holds the veils apart so that they may pass through. So we do what we can when we sense that a persons life is slipping away, we stay with them and put our sadness behind our love, we touch their skin, we hold a sacred "place for them" to complete their time. It is one of life's most difficult but worthwhile lessons.
In sympathy, WA

Dear Warm Ashes, My daughter did six years of medical school and at the end of her seventh year, her grandmother died. We live interstate, and as coincidence would have it, my daughter was with her grandmother hours before she died. My sister in law told me how impressed she was with my daughter, because of the way she sat so comfortably holding her grandmother's hand and stroking it. She didn't know her grandmother well, but I felt, of all the things my daugher had learned in medical school, she'd learned how to "be" with the dying.

Both my mother in law and my mother, died within months of d-day. Both died of cancer. I am quite interested in your comments. I am an athiest, but some of the events of my mother's passing left me feeling that there was something beyond. I sensed that my mother came to me, after her death, to comfort me. I know she was very troubled about my emotional state re the infidelity. She didn't like dying knowing I needed help. I came away from her death, feeling that there had to be more. But my logical mind tells me that it's impossible.

Dear Anyname,
Our logical mind can only gather what it knows and can understand from our material world. It hasn't the capacity to assess matters of the spirit. This is where so much conflict arises for people. They try to use a faculty that simply hasn't the sophistication, nor was ever intended for the job. Each of us has within us an innate connection to our spirituality, a "sense of knowing", that we are more than just physical beings. If we have been conditioned or chose not to look at this, doesn't make it disappear.
What you may be experiencing now as you consider death, is a stirring of that deep knowing. The story you told about your mother's "return" is experienced over and over again , by people of all faiths and creeds. By folks like you who really, weren't looking for anything. The veil between this reality and the next is very fragile around the time of death and powerful emotions such as love can often transcend it for a short time. The stories folks can tell are endless, research continues to explore the mystery and eventually we will personally get there.
We can refuse to look at it or begin a fascinating journey to better understand this very personal relationship with our own soul. I am not dogmatic about any particular faith or religion, but I have no doubt about my connection to a far more sophisticated sphere of energy. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's only a human need to give "IT" a name. Once you give yourself permission to ask the questions you will never look back. Wishing you peace. WA

:::: Each of us has within us an innate connection to our spirituality, a "sense of knowing", that we are more than just physical beings. If we have been conditioned or chose not to look at this, doesn't make it disappear.

Hi WA, I have never been a very spiritual person. I spent ten years as a devout Jehovah's Witness and I was not a spiritual person then or now. (amazing huh?) When I "woke up" to the JW's, I gave up on religion completely. I am not well educated but believe there is plenty of evidence to support man's evolution. It seems to satisfy my questions as to why were are here. I pretty much stay resolutely non religious. But for the last two years of *slightly weird* personal experiences.

:::What you may be experiencing now as you consider death, is a stirring of that deep knowing. The story you told about your mother's "return" is experienced over and over again , by people of all faiths and creeds. By folks like you who really, weren't looking for anything.

The Jehovahs' Witnesses created havoc in my life. I was excommunicated for apostasy (no longer believng their teachings). I turned my energies into my H and two children and I loved them with all my heart. My H was with me since we were mid teens and he was a wonderful man. As I was about to turn 50 I had a dream that my H was having sex with a girl who was a virgin. A maid, here in Asia. Very poor girls basically.

Two months later I discovered the dream was true. I had nothing happen that could have caused the dream. Nothing at all. I told my H about the dream - apparently the A was just starting. He laughed off the dream as silly. In the dream I discovered him naked and on top of this girl and I was horrified that she was a virgin (though quite how I knew that, I don't know). My H shrugged his shoulders in the dream, because he didn't care about what he was doing (just like real life). He claims he never had sex with her but told me he was half naked on top of her on one occassion. She told him she was a virgin, in real life. How can an athiest, several thousand miles away from the situation, dream about it in such detail? We'd been very happily married for 30 yrs - it was the last thing I expected. This was my first experience of the wierd.


:::The veil between this reality and the next is very fragile around the time of death and powerful emotions such as love can often transcend it for a short time. The stories folks can tell are endless, research continues to explore the mystery and eventually we will personally get there.

I was totally broken hearted by the discovery of my H's betrayal. Absolutely bereft. Lost huge amounts of weight etc. I was just too out of it to be near my mother during her final months. Even when she died, 7 months post discovery, I couldn't grieve much for her. I had been so involved with her fight against breast cancer, but I was totally withdrawn from her at the end. So I didn't grieve or cry much for her when the news came thru that she had passed. But the next week was full of very vivid dreams of her. The final one, she was changing and it was spookie. It was after that that I woke to a strong sense of her presence. It's difficult to explain. I'm not sure when I heard her say something. It may have been a while after that. But the real intensity was for one or two weeks after she died - and the sense of her presence. Even though, by day I was not even thinking of her, by night I was racked with dreams of her. The voice? I don't even know what she said. I was too shocked.

All of this could be explained by my accute emotional state. There was nothing tangable in what happened. The dream is the only truly unexplained thing that has happened.


::::We can refuse to look at it or begin a fascinating journey to better understand this very personal relationship with our own soul.

I certainly had a sense of my mother's soul living on after her death. Yet I've never even believed in the soul being separate to the body, even when I used to believe in God. But when my mother died, I had a strong sense of her soul not extinguished - as I had always believed. Again, it could have been my inability to accept what had happened. Even though it was expected for months.


::::I am not dogmatic about any particular faith or religion, but I have no doubt about my connection to a far more sophisticated sphere of energy. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's only a human need to give "IT" a name. Once you give yourself permission to ask the questions you will never look back.

I've begun to think that there could be something happening, but nothing like the traditional religious beliefs that abound. I really have no idea how to search for greater understanding though. Wanna recommend some reading material?

Dear Anyname,
Glad to hear back from you and I would be happy to offer you some reading material.
To have a spiritual life, does not require the following of any particular faith or creed, but it does require work and perseverance that probably will last a lifetime. We all slip into "default" over and over again and need to be self aware.
Nobody will be able to give you the perfect answer for YOU, it is something you will have to seek out and discover, your personal relationship with your soul.
The books that I am going to suggest here have all been wonderful for me. They offer a variety of perpectives and I am going to suggest perhaps that you read them all, just because they do offer perpective.I read tremendously,and I'm sure that my life will continue to change and evolve and that the journey is never really over. But hey, you asked and I am delighted!!
I will share the books in the order that read them over the years, but of course, you need to do what is best for you.

"THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED", by M. Scott Peck, M.D

"A GRADUAL AWAKENING", by Stevine Levine

"FIRE IN THE SOUL", by Joan Borysenko, Ph.D

"THE PATH TO LOVE", by Deepak Chopra

"CARE OF THE SOUL" , by Thomas Moore

These authors are all well known and are a joy to read.
My last thought, pertains to what you shared.
It is so understandable that you would feel as you do, so go to the thought of exploration gently and with patience and compassion for yourself. In the other deeper realities, time means nothing. Wishing you happiness.WA

I had a wonderful discussion with a guy who came to quote on fixing my roof a couple of years back. His recommended was The Road Less Travelled. I have the book but haven't made much progress. I found it quite difficult to read. Everyone talks about it but I struggled with it. I think I chapter hopped in the end. I'll have another go at it and look out for the others.

I love your approach to sharing what you've learned. You speak as one who knows the (your) path. I'm a really good swimmer and sometimes other people at the pool ask me for advice on how to swim as I do. I love swimming and I love to share with them the way I became so proficient. I recognised in you the same qualities that well up in me when people express an interest to learn. Your confidence and ease in your knowledge. I will try to locate all the books you mentioned.

Just one more question. Do you believe in reincarnation?

AN

Dear An,
Thank you for you generous words and I hope you can get to reading and enjoying the material, or for that matter anything else that comes your way and helps answer some of your questions.
To answer your question about re-incarnation,I think that is it is quite possible. There are many formal belief systems that incorporate the idea in one way or another. But you know, I think that it doesn't really matter ! We are living in the here and now, and have to make our lives the best that they can be regardless. I don't think I would try any harder or less hard even if I had definative proof. What it offers is again a sense of perspective.If we understand that we are in the process of learning many, many lessons and as you will probably agree, some people don't seem to be trying too hard, right? But it is certainly not a prerequisite for being in touch with your spiritual nature, not whatsoever. As I mentioned before, you discover you, and how it all comes together for you. Nobody can dictate to another how this should be. As you expose yourself to the different writings and books, talk with others etc, you will begin to develop a new way of listening to your own heart. You will begin to hear the voice of your own soul and it will lead you on your journey.(One good way to recognize that voice - it is never harsh, never wishes harm to you or anybody else, it will always be in alighnment with the universal good)
If you would ever like to chat, I would be delighted. You can reach me at- cambir@ rogers.com It might be easier than going through MB. Wishing you peace. WA

the email address doesn't work. I filed my reply in a draft awaiting further instuctions.

AN

Hi AN, Lets try that again !

cambir@rogers.com


Hope this helps the problem! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well.

WP's grandmother died last night. I have no details except that it was around midnight, and that someone was with her.

In a horrifically ironic twist of fate, the funeral is on Sunday.

Sunday is WP and my anniversary. It would be 14 years.

I'm very, very tired right now. Finished brushing teeth and all of that stuff. Just came to find this one note before going to sleep.

I don't know what to say. Except that, on the other thread where I wrote about this, I wrote about walking with the marriage hand-in-hand towards death while walking oneself hand-in-hand to healing.

Apparently life has conspired to bring the two threads together. I'll attend WP's grandma's funeral on our anniversary.

I don't know where our journey is headed from here. I know the threats that I've received from WP and her surrogates. They're all threats about money, which doesn't bother me much. I do know that my ability to resist this divorce is lessening with each day.

There are days when I welcome it, as surely dying people welcome death.

I remember a bird -- a memory from many years ago. It was flying over a lake in Minnesota on a clear, beautiful spring day. Suddenly, something was wrong. Flapping madly, it only held its place though it tried desperately to climb. Then a pause in the flapping, and it plummeted. And then caught itself and began flapping again. Another plummet, then frantic fluttering for just a moment -- and then, in a fraction of a second, it fell. Straight down and into the lake, disappeared.

Just like that. I wonder, in those moments of each plummet. Did it feel the relief I sometimes feel, knowing that the long fight may finally be over? Or was it the utter panic of a sentient creature facing the annihilation of something it has worked at for so long? I feel that, sometimes, too.

Most often, though, I just accept. This is where I am. I have done what I can. I meditate each day, looking for other things that might be done. The ideas are few and far between these days.

I am very sorry for your loss.

Your posts sounds so sad, as you compare the different kinds of deaths, and the fight/flight of getting there.

I once read a bood by Depak Chopra called "The Way of the Wizard", it was years ago but something in your thread brought it to my mind.

If you haven't read it already, think about picking it up. I think you will enjoy it. Chopra talks about death as being birth, and how we have everything backward.

Again, I am sorry for your loss of a woman you loved, and the loss of your DD's great-grandmother.

Weaver