Believer,
I'm some what thrown by a post your responded to by a new member who is an OW.

You said :

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Welcome to marriagebuilders. There are a bunch of OW here,and there used to be a thread. However they got a lot of flack for being honest </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone ever getting flack for being honest.

I can recall several 2X4s for more focus being put on the needs OM was meeting, and less focus on true recovery of the M, but I don't ever recall anyone getting FLACK for being honest.

I'm really thrown by this. I don't understand.

You've always been your own welcoming committee, but I'm stunned that you actually steered someone away from this board.

Betrayed -

I think this is a great board, but not for WS's. There is much more help on the other board.

I find it odd that when I started the WW thread, EVERYONE jumped on board. However when I started the Loyal Husbands thread, and asked for input from others, there has been very little input.

And by the way, I am still in contact with some of the WW's and they are doing very well with moving forward.

Believer,
I thought this site was good for BS and WS alike, as long as the focus was MARRIAGE BUILDING.

There was a lot of drama surrounding the WW thread. But I do hope you, being the BS, can understand how difficult it must have been to read such heart wrenching emotions of missing the OM. Personally I avoided that thread..because that was the LAST thing I wanted to know about.

Besides that particular thread, I don't recall a WS having much difficulty finding support here. Even through the withdrawal phase.

Many WS ask for help to get through, and how to rekindle love they'd lost for their spouse a long the way.

I personally haven't jumped on the Loyal Husband thread because I have little to offer. I don't think like a Man, I don't feel emotions like a Man. I'm sure the way they process these issues is very different than a woman does. I may very well be wrong...but then again...maybe it has more to do with the fact that my H could never be a part of the Loyal Husband thread, and maybe that stings just as much. Just coming at it from a different angle.

I just don't think the MB site should become a place for just BS. I think that just defeats the whole purpose of the MB principles.

Thanks for responding, I always value your opinions on everything. You reach out to everyone, that's more than most of us can claim fame to.

Believer,

I have thought many times regarding your statement about the lack of input on the loyal husbands thread because for one, you once said to me my help could be used over there.

I avoid that thread, and have thought about why. For me I think it's because I have no experience with loyal husbands who are faced with infidelity. I have very few male friends, and even fewer that have been faced with infidelity. I also have no girlfriends who have had affairs, and I have a very hard time understanding how a woman could forsake her children. So I feel the advice I have would be very counterproductive to marriage building. I can't relate, can't understand, and so I avoid that thread. I can relate to pain, but feel I can't really offer any good support because my anger gets in the way.

I can deal with a womens emotional pain when she is betrayed but not her infidelity. Although I care about the WW's, I like KY, Kiwi and others whose names I can't recall at this moment, I do not know what to say to these husbands.

It's strange I know, but have wanted for a long time to let you know this, because I feel like I have let you down on that thread, I see how busy you are and now with your own pending divorce I am ashamed (not sure if that is exactly the word I am looking for). Please no offense to any WW's out there just my own inability to offer advice in those sitch's.

Anyway wanted to discuss this with you for awhile.

P.S.

Might also have something to do with my own affair with a MM... I am still a messed up ball of jumbled emotions.

Well maybe I am too sensitive about this subject. But I went back and looked at both threads. The WW thread had 75 responses from non WS's.

The loyal husbands thread (where I asked for help) had 32 responses from non loyal husbands.

The other thing that I noticed is that most of the WW's don't post here anymore. They got the message.

So I will continue to advise them to go to another site.

Ok, I just have to jump in here. I'm a FWH and I found wonderful help from everyone here. Even when I was DEEP in the fog I was greeted with compassion and encouragement to TURN AWAY from the OW and back the my W. When I was in the depth of withdrawl I was encouraged to stay focused and continue NC. When I was struggling to regain my M I was helped, cared for and loved by a community of people who hated what I did yet applauded the attempt reconnect...even when my poor wife was deciding IF she even wanted me back (she's still not sure but has agreed to MC).

I have not felt I needed to turn to some other board because I have found help here. I would encourage all WS to read here because you can feel the pain you have caused. Sometimes that motivates you to hate your own sin and gives you a desire to change.

I'm sorry for my sin. I wish I could shake the crap out of all the WS out there who are still in the fog of deception, but I can pray for them and give a different perspective to those BS out there who are struggling with the questions that plague there mind and keep them awake at 2am.

I can tell you all the games my mind played trying to convince me my A was justifyed (it wasn't...just thick fog). Maybe, just maybe I can help someone who is struggling with fustration of cakeland and help them turn back to their BS. They will need all the help they can get because the rollercoaster ride of returning to faithfullness is just as difficult as the ride the poor BS is on.

It's just by grace that any of us are saved. GRACE...WOW, I appreciate that gift more than ever now. So to those WS out there... if you are tired of the double life and desire peace again...DID YOU HEAR ME? PEACE. (because right now you can't find peace in anything). Stay here, read, cry, and believe that you CAN make the change. You CAN turn away and make a decision. You CAN survive even when you can't breathe. You CAN find peace again.

Hate the sin... love the sinner.

2scared

Well, I am still glad to hear from everyone. But the fact remains that the WW are still not posting here. I think it is because it is not a safe place.

Well, I too, had wonderful help here as a FWW.

Believer, the thread was wonderful but I used to keep away from it because it just does not help a recovery to keep going on about the OM. There were also too many triggers for me and I think that was what happening to all of them. They kept triggering off one another.

The thread that helped me so much "Letting go of OM" had a different dynamic. It was sort of support and help and understanding but in a very "marriage building" way.

I've been thinking about what it's like to come here as a WS. A bit like Ginger Rogers dancing with Fred Astaire. He got all the acclaim but she was "doing it backwards and in high heels."

It's also interesting that people hated the thread but then posted topics like "what is my WS thinking" and really, it was all there for them to read - because, seriously, that is what the WS IS thinking.

Believer, I think you're great and I know you'll find real happiness when you've finally got through all the crap with your WH.

Jen

Believer,

I can understand why the OW doesn't feel safe...but why do you think the WW doesn't feel she can post? Especially if she is trying to figure out how to work on M and reconnect with BS.

2scared

2scared, I don't know if you read the thread that Believer is talking about. Most of it has been deleted by one poster. It was a very intense thread. You're right though, every WW on there was trying to rebuild their marriages. They were very, very honest about their feelings and it did get people going. I think it frustrated people more than made them angry. Although, there were a lot of 2x4s flying about at the end.

Funnily enough, I've seen some huge 2x4s posted to BS's as well on here.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Well, I am still glad to hear from everyone. But the fact remains that the WW are still not posting here. I think it is because it is not a safe place. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer, a couple of thoughts I've had rattling around into my head come to mind with this thread. First, the WW/OW posting the thread in question, should have been educated as to the terms or at least shown where to find them. She asked for advice from OWs when it is really FWSs (in recovery or recovered) she needed to be conversing with. She started her post with a disclaimer that she was not familiar with the terms.

My computer is acting up, so I could not respond that day, otherwise I could have jumped in myself. As far as the particular OWs/FWS (not entirely sure how to classify them, actually) whom you talked about not continuing to post here on MB, as you know they are in contact with each other offboard and that suits their purposes. It's their choice.

Personally it was very painful to read those particular threads and remember, I am a former wayward myself. I explained my feelings about it in another thread and I have not changed my mind. Those threads were out of control in my book.

Those particular posters aside, there have been SO many positive changes in and marriages rebuilt by MBers who originially were WS. To say that MB is not a safe place for WS/OPs is simply not true. That assumption on your part may end up affecting your posts in a subtle way that may not be as helpful in the long run for any WS or FWS who seeks aid here.

The other board is very good from what I hear but there is NO reason both boards can't work together. MB needs both the WS and the BS POV so that we can help each other recover. My closest friends on MB are BSs, through them I learned how the BS mind works in a way that softened my heart towards my H. I am always mindful of BS feelings, something I could not have learned if I had been scared away because MB "wasn't safe" for me, a cheating wife.

Please do not slip into a habit of sending OPs or WSs away because of your empathy for a couple of the OWS/FWSs who sorely tried patience. Most FWS,WSs/OPs who continue to post on MB do so because they ARE teachable and want to make the changes they know are neccesary in thier lives and marriages. Those posters may struggle, they may even fall, but they want to move forward and it SHOWS.

Let's encourage the WSs , not send them away because a couple of previous WSs/OPs?FWS? had a difficult time internalizing or getting to the point of doing what they needed to recover.

I LIKE you being the Welcome Wagon lady to ALL Believer, so don't stop now, OK? KB

Sheesh, KB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I really am in awe of you. I mean that.

Jen

Don't underestimate the power of a believer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That's my two sense.

You know Jen, I've been meaning to tell you this: you need to give YOURSELF more credit than you do! You really do have SO MUCH to offer and you have an major impact when you venture out. I loved your "Mouth hanging open" thread. Don't ever be hesitant to speak up, you have been through that "trial by fire" recovery process and you and Rob are an MB success story.

I meant to post on your Happy Anniversary thread also but my computer was acting very weird. ....so here it is...... Happy, Happy Belated Anniversary to Rob and Jen!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am SO happy for you both! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTW, You can't ever know how much of a privilege it has been to watch your recovery, Jen. I'm SO glad you hung in there and shared, it would have been our loss if you hadn't. Best, KB

KB, thank you - that means a great deal to me.

Jen

Hey, all. I will think about this. But my heart is still with my sisters in Christ. I still don't think they got a fair shake here. The Proverbs31 women are now gone from this site - all of them.

Believer, you're right - they have all disappeared which is a great shame.

And do you know what else annoys me - I went and had a look at TOW last night because I wanted to check out some names over there. I have a pretty good radar for subtle infiltration and just wanted to be sure I'm not wasting my time talking to some people who've come on here. They call this the BS board and that really p's me off because it's the mix of people here and being able to see things from both sides that is so valuable and so wonderful.

I've said it a trillion times here - it was the mix of viewpoints that helped me so much.

Jen

Jen - You have been a great help to everyone here. I am very sad that the WW in question do not post here anymore. However, please know that they are doing well.

Believer, I'm glad to hear they're doing well. I had the awful feeling that once they lost the support of being here they would flounder around and make bad decisions about their lives.

Jen