My son is asking me why daddy is gone and I have given him a good reason telling him that mommy and daddy are going through a tough time....but.....my son is smart and he asked me if daddy had a girlfriend???? What do I say to that?
Do I tell him the truth? Do I make his father tell him? What do I do????? He's 8!!!!!!

GOSH Tree I want to help, but I am not qualified to answer that question. I can tell you this, at 6 my son has said to me:

S : OM was trying to take mommy away from you..
FM: Okay S
S: Dad you gotta listen to your wife yah know...you cant let anyone take you wife
away dad yah know.....ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dad!

He doesn't understand at all if I could make her stop I would. My eyes are welling up just thinking about it. I wouldn't answer directly. I'd ask him what did he think? I'd find out what he already knows. Kids are alot more intuitive than we think and not to mention voices do travel.

That's my humble advice.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Wow tr, what a mess...

I agree with FM...

I wish I could give you an answer...

I feel so bad for you!

(you too fm!)

TR,
Let him ask his dad. Period. Why should you have to struggle with this ? This isn't your decision.

or......

You could tell him that you don't know. You really don't do you ? You suspect, but do you have proof ?

Do not discuss this with WH.

It's difficult for a child. They don't understand, even if he finds out dad has another gf, it won't make him understand any more. He isn't old enough to grasp things like infidelity, Thank God.

This is all the more reason for you to remain the lighthouse. Let your son see the stable, happy mom he knows. Dad's already gone south...and that's enough for him to try to latch onto.

Keep posting TR. I keep checking in to make sure you're still hanging tough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong>
You could tell him that you don't know. You really don't do you ? You suspect, but do you have proof ?

Do not discuss this with WH.

It's difficult for a child. They don't understand, even if he finds out dad has another gf, it won't make him understand any more. He isn't old enough to grasp things like infidelity, Thank God.

This is all the more reason for you to remain the lighthouse. Let your son see the stable, happy mom he knows. Dad's already gone south...and that's enough for him to try to latch onto.

Keep posting TR. I keep checking in to make sure you're still hanging tough. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kids understand more than we think.
I think its important to understand what your child is already thinking. I'm sure at 8 he knows what a girlfriend is, and he probably knows DAD's arent supposed to have girlfriends...mommy is daddys girlfriend...

Do not lie. It will set a bad precedence. This issue with your WH is far from over. Gather infomation by asking open-ended questions. Takee the convo into another direction if possible. Have him talk about his feelings. He probabl doesnt need an answer, but if he does I'm not sure might be a good answer as NJ suggested. I try to remain honest with my kids, but my sons questions are so fleeting he doesn't require long indepth explanations. Now my 14 yr old D...now that's a whole other ball of wax.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

TR,

My heart goes out to you. Your son might be a little to young to go into much detail. I agree that he should ask his dad. Let his father be the one who lies to him. He will remember, but it is up to your WH as to what memories he creates for his son.

My children are older. I often tell them to pray for the family. But I also make sure they understand that God won't make us do anything. We should pray that he shows us what we should do, and when he does that we recognize what he is telling us. God gave us free-will so that we can choose our paths. He will not make us do right or wrong. He will not make your WH or my WW do the right thing. We pray that we each see what he is telling us and that we have the strength to follow that path. Make sure your Son knows you are a supporter of the family, not a destructive force.

In addition, you do not want to teach him that marriage is a disposable institution. Or that husbands and wives are like cars to be traded in every few years. You also don't want to let his Wayward father teach him this. Don't teach him to be a quitter. We can only control our own actions, so don't let them be the actions of a quitter.

Good luck TR.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

I think that if you make his father tell him he'll lie. That's what fog bound people do. They lie to everyone, including their kids. Almost especially their kids because they still want to be Hero Dad to DS.

But at the same time it is important for him to hear Dad's side of the story - even if that side is mostly lies...because chances are strong that your son will know the difference. Especially if you set the groundwork by not ever lying to him. Just be straight with him. Tell him an age appropriate version of what you know. Answer his questions - if you don't all he'll hear is the fogged version and he'll start making his own assumptions about the truth.

Do not let an 8 year old make assumptions about the actions of the adults in his life.

Thanks for the responses. My son is spending the night with H tonihgt. I'm sure my son will be asking a lot of questions. My son told me today that he didn't understand why daddy lied to him (something happened last night) He knew his dad lied and he wasn't happy about that. He said "my dad is a liar". I tried my best to explain things but I told him to make sure he asks his dad tonight.
I hate when my son isn't home. My house is so quiet and lonely!!!! It's hard to sleep here all by myself.
Betrayed...yes...I have proof of a girlfriend. I keep thinking of all the times I was happy and thinking my marriage was fine and not knowing the whole time he's sleeping with someone else. It kills me! We were even trying to have a baby! GOD!!!!!!

{{{{TR}}}}

Sorry to hear about your situation. My kids are 3 years old and have only asked where mommy was.

I do think everything I read was good advice. Are you going to a counsler with your S? That might be a good idea.

Honesty hurts, but that pain will heal - if it is ment to. Lies do not heal.

Try not to be too lonely tonight. Call someone.

No matter for age I'd tell him that even dad had to go away he still loves him, I love him too of course, more than anything else, and... sometimes people go away, that has nothing to do with him... and that his dad could explain better because even I don't understand quite why he doesn't solve some problems of his together with us...

I'm actually online ordering something for myself. I need something to make me feel good!!!!! I really miss my son. WE are really close! The thing that gets me is my H and son have always been so close and connected to each other. People always commented on that. Now, It's like my son comes second to everything. It's so hard for me to see that. I just don't understand. My friends say it's because my H has someone else to occupy him right now. I just can't ever imagine putting my son second to ANYTHING!!!!!!!! He is #1 in my book!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> No matter for age I'd tell him that even dad had to go away he still loves him, I love him too of course, more than anything else, and... sometimes people go away, that has nothing to do with him... and that his dad could explain better because even I don't understand quite why he doesn't solve some problems of his together with us... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dad didn’t have to go away. Dad CHOSE to go away. Big difference. The first is a lie.

Tell the truth to your kids! They’ve been lied to more than enough!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by canthishelp:
<strong>My kids are 3 years old and have only asked where mommy was.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My son is (almost) 3 and when asking where his dad goes, I just say - daddy went to his home and we stay in our home. I act like it's normal that we have two homes...

He won't remember us living together... and I hope he'll just got used to living with his mom and dad living at his place...
What consequences it might have for his view of marriages, I don't dare to think...

Getting older I'll change my answer little by little... will try hard to raise him believing in Family, although he might never live with both parents again...

huhhh...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DadsD:
<strong>Dad didn’t have to go away. Dad CHOSE to go away. Big difference. The first is a lie.

Tell the truth to your kids! They’ve been lied to more than enough! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Truth will be too much for young kids...
If you say 'he chose' - imagine how much less worthy a child would feel knowing his dad chose someone else but no his kid!??
Let them learn by themselves; they will grow, they will see, they will understand when right time comes... not before...
in the meantime, they HAVE TO grow up without of feeling of guilt that they might have been a cause od dad/mom leaving...

Btw, why is a lie that he had to go?
(From his point of view, he had to. He chose - true TOO...)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong> Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
Truth will be too much for young kids... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And lies aren’t? We’ve spent I don’t know how many years lying to our children and look where its gotten us. Children are much more aware than adults give them credit for. An 8 year old today is NOT the same as an 8 year old of 30 years ago. They are much more world wise than we think. They know what’s going on – even if they don’t know the details. And when they turn to you and ask a question, they deserve a straight, age sensitive answer. If you lie, you’re covering for the wandering spouse. And if you lie, you undermine the trust your child has in you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>
If you say 'he chose' - imagine how much less worthy a child would feel knowing his dad chose someone else but no his kid!?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok but do you think he doesn’t know this? Especially when he asks you directly? Dad (or Mom) is GONE! They’re off building a life with a new person, and his/her family. They know! Adults think they’re so clever, hiding and “protecting” and all the while your kids are gleaning information from half-truths and discovered secrets – and coming to their own conclusions.

The very nature of this situation makes a child feel unworthy. That is unavoidable. You’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Don’t compound it by insulting their intelligence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>
Let them learn by themselves; they will grow, they will see, they will understand when right time comes... not before...in the meantime, they HAVE TO grow up without of feeling of guilt that they might have been a cause of dad/mom leaving... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let them learn by themselves? Learn what? You’re asking a child – with a child’s mind to figure out situations that boggle the minds of adults! “They will grow, see and understand” – those are the VERY SAME THINGS that WS’s say when trapped in the fog! I am 33 years old and I still have YET to figure out the things you’re expecting a child to understand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Btw, why is a lie that he had to go?
(From his point of view, he had to. He chose - true TOO...) [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It’s a lie because it simply is. The WS chose this other person. Chose to destroy his marriage and family in favor of the OP. “Had to” means someone forced him. It means that he had no other choice in the world but to take this action. And that is NOT the case. Tell a child that this was a “Had to” situation, and you tell a child that he should give into frivolous impulses. That a desire carries equal weight as vow. “Had to” is not “Chose to”.

So, let the WS tell the child that they “Had to”. We all know it’s a lie. If a child is going to be lied to let it come from the WS, not his last remaining sane parent. In these situations a child needs to know that no matter what at least one parent can be turned to for the truth. It may hurt for sure, but it will be the truth. And in the long run, a painful truth is far less damaging than an outright deliberate lie.

Let's agree to disagree (I don't think to say as wrote above is a lie...)

Anyway...
You said:
"Tell him an age appropriate version of what you know. Answer his questions - if you don't all he'll hear is the fogged version and he'll start making his own assumptions about the truth.


I'd like to know what would you say. (Do you have kids? How old?)
What exact words/explanations you'd use please?

I'm not going to give you my opinion.....I'm just going to tell you what I told my children.....who were at the time.....10, 4 and 3.

When they had a questions about their daddy or wanted to know something that I couldn't rightly answer I told them to ask their father.

He got himself into the mess....and he was the one that needed to answer for the mess.

Our oldest caught him in so many lies that she didn't want to have anything to do with him....even started refusing to visit with him or talk to him on the phone.

Kids today are way more perceptive than we give them credit for and they crave answers to ALL of their questions. Leaving them unanswered is even worse for them as they will come up with their own assumptions.....even at 8 yrs old.

You do not have to mention this to your H yourself....but you can tell your son that he needs to ask daddy those questions that pertain to him because you cannot answer for his father.

I might be an overprotective mother...
(Hope to stop it before he's an adult <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> Let's agree to disagree (I don't think to say as wrote above is a lie...)

Anyway...
You said:
"Tell him an age appropriate version of what you know. Answer his questions - if you don't all he'll hear is the fogged version and he'll start making his own assumptions about the truth.


I'd like to know what would you say. (Do you have kids? How old?)
What exact words/explanations you'd use please? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t have children. My pov is as the child in this situation (My father had a long term affair that ended with his death. Many lies) So my pov is from the child’s.

What would I say? Depends on the question.

Why did Dad leave? Because he chose to.

Does Dad have a girlfriend? Apparently.

Does Dad still love you? I don’t know. (which is IMO the truth). You’ll have to ask him.

All I can offer is that you’ll never go wrong by telling the truth. Most kids can handle it. They’re already dealing with heavy duty stuff. They don’t need to have their faith in their one sane parent underminded by any form of questioning or second guessing.

They’re dealing with SO much. So many lies. They need a touchstone. Someone in their life that they can trust beyond a shadow of a doubt to tell them the truth. Anything less and they’re gettng lies from BOTH of the primary adults in their lives. What good does that do? None. The only thing it teaches them is that lying in “certain” instances is ok. But which instances? I don’t know…do you? And it teaches them that people can say “I love you” and lie to you in the next breath.

So which is more damaging??

I’m submitting that your pov is the one that most parents have been operating under for years and years. And all it does is create adults who equate lying with “the right thing to do under certain situations”….translation “ I can lie about this if I think it’s the right thing to do.” Sounds like fog babble to me….

Looking around I can’t agree that these are the lesssons we should be teaching children. And remember – EVERY discussion / exchange with a child is a lesson taught and learned.

It is my understanding that one of the major policies of MB’s is Radical Honesty. I offer that its not just important in post-d-day marriages – but its equally important in ALL post d-day relationships. Even and especially, parent-child relationships.

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: DadsD ]</small>

The mess these men put us in is incredable.
When my DH fessed up, I was completely honest with my boys. I have always had a basically radical honest policy with them also. They were 8, 11, 15, and 17 at the time. Unknown to me, my oldest knew before my DH cofessed as he was a computer whiz and had already talked to his 2 younger (not the youngest) brothers anyway. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> They didn't tell me, as they, like a few friends were trying to protect me. They really handled it well. I don't think we give children enough credit sometimes as being the very smart, intuitive little wonders that they are. I hated being lied to during his affair. I did not want my children to feel as I did that they were crazy and imagining things.
Anyway, good luck and God Bless you and yours. You are the only one here who really KNOWS your child and what he needs and can handle and digest!