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Joined: Jul 2004
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About a month ago I discovered my W had a EA.

She swears it was the only time. I forgave her
and we have been better together then we have
in years.

BUT

I just discovered Evidence on her hard drive
of Encounters with at least 5 different men
over the last 3 years.

Samples
Monday, August 27, 2001
Dan instructs my w to write a letter about how
your husband ****ed you yesterday morning;
and tell me what you thought about when he did.

It was to be a hand written letter

-----------------

Wednesday, October 30, 2002
Mark,

I'm finally realizing this is self-destructive behavior on
my part, and I need to stop before someone gets hurt or
something bad happens. I'm not getting anything out of our
relationship anymore, and it's not a healthy relationship
for either of us. We need to be focusing on our spouses and
our kids instead. I'm not going to say I regret anything in
the past, but I can't continue. We can't be good when we
see each other, so we just can't see each other anymore.
And as much as I value you as a friend, I understand if you
choose not to call anymore. Then I'll know for sure that
this was never really about being friends at all.


------------


Friday, July 2, 2004
From Philip

Jealousy...

I am so jealous. For one, that you had a summer fling and
didn't involve me, and two you had a lesbian encounter and
never invited me to watch and take notes. That's not very
nice. And the fact that when I read it I did immediately
think of Marline. I'm so depressed. Anyway, yeah it'll
be awhile on that drink. Toward the end of the month
something could be worked out, but until then I'll be lucky
to stay alive. Twist a nipple for me, and when you see some
fireworks and you feel a concussion blast in your chest, just
close your eyes and think it's me. be safe, I know I
won't.

Philip


-----


This one was from her trip to Kansas.
She spent 3 days at a bed and breakfast.

I am not sure if there is anything to it
but she did not mention him to me

Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:36 PM


Sean,
I’ve been lurking online, hoping you’d be around… Friday is
only 2 days away… I’m leaving St. Louis between 9-9:30a,
which will put me in Baldwin between 2:30 and 3:30,
depending on whether I stop and do any antiquing along the
way.I guess just call me and let me know
(sooner rather than later) if we’re still on for Fri night
and approx. what time.

------------
Friday, July 2, 2004 11:13 AM

Jealousy...

I am so jealous. For one, that you had a summer fling and
didn't involve me, and two you had a lesbian encounter and
never invited me to watch and take notes. That's not very
nice. And the fact that when I read it I did immediately
think of Marline. I'm so depressed. Anyway, yeah it'll
be awhile on that drink. Toward the end of the month
something could be worked out, but until then I'll be lucky
to stay alive. Twist a nipple for me, and when you see some
fireworks and you feel a concussion blast in your chest, just
close your eyes and think it's me. be safe, I know I
won't.

Philip


The part of about a summer fling on July 2
and the fact that she went to Kansas June 20th
leads me to think something did happen.

Also the part about the lesbian encounter, she did
tell me after a "Girls Night out" The female
friend became very possive and they have not spoken
in months.


-------

Aug

EA with Kevin

I discovered her EA with the Worlds greatest
kisser in a public forum. I did confront
her about it.

I made it very clear that I would not
tolerate it in the future and forgave her for it.

We have been better together then we have been
in years but now I am not so sure.

What I thought was a one time thing appears to
be part of a pattern of deception

I am split on this issue. Part of me says
the past is the past and I should just let it go.
Nothing good can come of it.

The other part of me want to prevent it from
happening again. If I would discover she
did it again, I would divorce her.

Part of marriage is trust that your partner
will be faithful. I want to trust her but
one what I have discovered it is not easy.


My question is this


Based on the evidence, should I install a key
logger on her laptop or just put the past in the
past and hope for the best?

Looking back on the EA and the other times
we have been faced with Divorce, It is clear
from her actions she was having affairs then too.

In the end, I want to be with her and keep the
family together.

If she were to find out what I really know or
find the key logger it would ruin what we have
rebuilt in the last month.

Confused!

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joker,

I think it is pretty obvious that "something" went on. I would have a hard time letting this one go.

If she were to find out what I really know or
find the key logger it would ruin what we have
rebuilt in the last month.


What you have is built on some pretty shaky ground. This probably the way you envisioned you M....secrets, lies and denial. Nothing can be fixed untill what is broken is identified.

I know it is probably more scary to hear the whole truth but that will be how the healing starts. She might be mad that you "spied" but honestly (and she probably won't buy it at first) how would she feel if the roles were reversed?

You were suspicious of her actions so you asked. Her answer didn't sit right with you so you checked more and found something.

I would put on the key-logger and then I would talk to her about your concerns. Don't just drop this unless this is the marriage you want.

I'm sure more people will drop by and give better advice but until then I gave you somethin to chew on.

God Bless

Doug

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IMHO.....if you feel the need to snoop.....then snoop.

Also....if the WS is truly bent on fixing the marriage....then no amount of snooping is going to bother them.

I think though that if you are starting on recovery that the WS should be informed that "random acts of snooping" may happen. They should also be informed of any kind of snooping that might occur....if they have nothing to hide then there shouldn't be a problem.....but you should be completely honest.

Alot of my H's problem when we began recovery was that I would sneak around to snoop. He told me that it made him feel like I wasn't willing to trust him. He knew I didn't trust him in the beginning......but he at least wanted to know that I was willing to trust.

Another thing was that when I would find something from the past that he didn't tell me about I would bring it up as to why he never told me about it. That's when I realized that what was important information for me wasn't really important to my H information wise. So I had to learn how to take the hear and now and quit focusing on the past....as there was nothing I could do about it.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on the evidence, should I install a key
logger on her laptop or just put the past in the
past and hope for the best?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd install the keylogger. When you have strong suspicions, "putting it in the past and hoping for the best" is the same thing as pushing it under the rug. It solves nothing and allows those suspicions to escalate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Looking back on the EA and the other times
we have been faced with Divorce, It is clear
from her actions she was having affairs then too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The past has taught you the signs. Follow your gut feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the end, I want to be with her and keep the
family together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that can be possible if you take action to find the truth. You can't rebuild the marriage if you are dealing with continued deception.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If she were to find out what I really know or
find the key logger it would ruin what we have
rebuilt in the last month. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF she is guilty of continuing emr's, any rebuilding that has been done has been one sided only.

IF she discovers the logger and is NOT guilty, it should not destroy any accomplishments so far. She can't expect to be totally trusted only a month after discovery. Trust is re-earned with time and alot of work. That work being open communication between the two of you and her willingness to allow her life to be an open book to you.

Good luck to you. I hope you do install the logger and I hope your suspicions are wrong!!

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WS are liars. If a WS called a dog , the dog wouldn't come because they'd think it was a lie.

They don't even SIT anymore when they can LIE.

So until your WS comes clean and earns your trust again spy your sneaky buns off. Just sit on the results until you know what to do with it.

Withoit spying i wouldn't've discovered the A so early, the proof of PA, the contact details of OM GF, the personal history of OM, my WWs sneaky affair phone or any other of the tools I have right now to leverage the affair apart.

Spy like mad, just don't process the evidence too quickly. That my advice.

BTW when they find our they HATe it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:
I'd install the keylogger. When you have strong suspicions, "putting it in the past and hoping for the best" is the same thing as pushing it under the rug. It solves nothing and allows those suspicions to escalate.

I agree, the not knowing is bothering me.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:
The past has taught you the signs. Follow your gut feelings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not seeing any signs right now. In fact, I have not seen her look at me the
way she does now since we were first dating 9 years ago.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:
And that can be possible if you take action to find the truth. You can't rebuild the marriage if you are dealing with continued deception. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Part of me wants to confront the rest of the evidence. I try to bring it all out now. I know it would hurt
to know the truth, but each time a new secret is revealed, The wound deepens anyway

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:
IF she is guilty of continuing emr's, any rebuilding that has been done has been one sided only. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the part I do not want to think about. I have been hurt so by her actions in the past.
I will not forgive again and I really don't want to think about breaking up the family

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:

IF she discovers the logger and is NOT guilty, it should not destroy any accomplishments so far. She can't expect to be totally trusted only a month after discovery. Trust is re-earned with time and alot of work. That work being open communication between the two of you and her willingness to allow her life to be an open book to you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trust is a very big issue with her. When I exposed I knew about her EA, she accused me of spying.
She had posted everything about there affair in a public forum, including the breakup.

Now I am about to take SPYing to the next level.

I think spying is in my best interest but I am afraid I will become an obbession.
I really want to trust her but in my heart i'm worried about what will
happen when "The Second Honeymoon ends" and we start fighting again.

I am still unsure about the keylogger. I am afraid of what I might find.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am still unsure about the keylogger. I am afraid of what I might find.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure you're afraid! It's far easier to pretend everything is ok. Unless you want the truth....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trust is a very big issue with her. When I exposed I knew about her EA, she accused me of spying.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's VERY common for the WS to try to turn the tables on the BS when confronted with the truth. The best defense is a good offense,,right? Takes the focus off them and right on you
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
If trust was really such a big issue with her, she'd be totally honest. She'd let you know about the computer correspondence she's receiving and sending without you having to sneak to get this info. And as long as you have "blind trust", she's free to conduct herself as she pleases without your interference.

joker, you will know when it's time to do this. IF your suspicions are correct, perhaps you aren't ready to deal with it right now. Maybe it's not time for you yet.

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Found out more then I wanted to know.

I have an admin account on her laptop (she
is not the most tech savy) and I decided
to do a search for any documents that mention
hubby, or husband.

I discovered that she had been keeping an
electronic diary. She appearent had got on
ONLINE master that was instructing her to
do things and write about them and email them to
him.

I discovered that she had had multiple affairs
including one with a married man that had
gone on years. I did discover that I am the
only one she has ever orgasmed with. The Married
man had never accomplished this.

I have not yet ready everthing but I am speechless.

I really had no clue this was going on. She works
from home most of the week and that is when
most of it happened. She also lied about going
out with friends. All of this detail in her
diary.

She is not very good about covering her tracks.

I will say on a positive side that there was no
evidence on anything past me finding out about
her EA.

Now I am torn about confronting her with what
I know or just letting it go.

We really are better then we have been in years.

If I confront her now, what good will come of it.
I REALLY AM SPYING NOW

If I don't confront her, do I risk her thinking
she got away with it and doing it again?

For now, I will be the loving attentive husband
I should have been on along. But I will be
keenly aware of everything she does from now on.

If I catch her in a lie, there will be no
more forgiveness. I may have left the barn
door open before but if she wanders again, I will
burn the barn down(divorce her).

Should I confront her with what I know about
the past 3 years or pretend everything is ok
and watch her?

Gemini (of Two Minds on This one)

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You should SPY! If you feel something is wrong and you have suspicions you have every right to investigate and disprove or prove your suspicions. This issue is moot, because you've already uncovered far more than you expected. Do not feel guillty about the manner in which you went to uncover it. If it were up to your WS you would never know anything. It is your right to know if your spouse is engaged in promiscous activity, thus jeopardizing your M and possible your health. This is your life we're talking about.

Next, I would confront her. I understand your reluctance as you state "Things have been so much better lately". Things may be going right for the moment, but in all likely hood things will again become strained and with this new information you will probably bring it up and confront the issue then. I think once you know something of this magnitude how can you not confront it? It will eat away at you like a flesh eating bacteria! I'm just stating what I would do and what I have done in similar situations. I do not regret snooping to find out the truth on issues my W has lied about for far too long, without accurate information we are enable to take actions to end this obvious trespass on the bonds of your M.

I'm not sure what the MB principles are. I'm not sure if this issue is discussed specifically in Dr. Harleys work. Does anyone know what the principles as it relates to divulging the evidence you find?

I feel for you Joker and wish you the best in dealing with this painful situation. It's not going to be easy, and how you confront it might be the better question to ask. At least that's what I would ask.

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ALright
How do I confront her?

What do I say?

How do I explain the spying?

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by joker:
<strong> ALright
How do I confront her?

What do I say?

How do I explain the spying? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Non-confrontational. You want answers not emotional outbursts. Calm and collected. Be prepared as to what you want to say and how, and be prepared for her possible responses. Try to stay on subject. It's not spying, you were concerned about your wife and the well being of your M. Wait until you get more experienced answers to your questions as to how to approach this situation. I would do my best to come from a stance of love and concern more than judgement and accusation. If she feels like you are indicting her she will instinctively get defensive and turn the tables on you. Do not aid her in turning the tables on you, so please do not attack her in words or body language. You can do it, but please wait for a few more responses as to the steps you might consider.

FM

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joker:

A few things for you.

♣ Go 2 the home page and read all the articles about infidelity. Your sitch is not unique. It is also recoverable.

♥ Spacecase posted this on his www.iloveulove.com resources page. It's the best definition of secrecy, privacy, truth, and honesty that I've ever seen:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.


The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

And there are some great things about forgiveness as well:

"I worry about fast forgivers. They tend to forgive quickly in order to avoid their pain. Or they forgive fast in order to get an advantage over the people they forgive. And their instant forgiving only makes things worse...People who have been wronged badly and wounded deeply should give themselves time and space before they forgive...There is a right moment to forgive. We cannot predict it in advance; we can only get ourselves ready for it when it arrives...Don't do it quickly, but don't wait too long...If we wait too long to forgive, our rage settles in and claims squatter's rights to our souls."

-Lewis B. Smedes - "The Art of Forgiving: When You Need To Forgive And Don't Know How"

Finally, about spying. I think many of us have done it at one time or another. Certainly, you need facts. Particularly at the beginning, when you're so uncertain of who you've been living with all these years. After a time, though, you will find you don't need 2 snoop 2 know how you're "doing." Your W's behavior 2ward you will show you whether she's being truthful and honest with you.

Whether spying is right or wrong isn't really the issue - trust is.

"From “How To Recognize Emotional Unavailability And Make Healthier Relationship Choices”  by Bryn Collins, M.A., L.P.

"James Bond: Spies & Lies

He won’t tell you where he lives. She will give you only a work number. He’s evasive about his history, friends, job and background. A year after you marry her, you find out she’s been married before. A mistress shows up. You find bills for credit cards you didn’t know you had.

Secrets and the lies that support them make it very hard to make an emotional connection. In part that’s because the secrets create a wall. In part it’s also because the secrets take a lot of energy to maintain and that energy is stolen from having a relationship with a person.

James Bonds are secret-keepers who withold information from people with whom they are in a relationship. Sometimes this is because they believe the secrets give them power or an illusion of mystery and excitement; other times it is because the revelation of the secrets will end the relationship and they won’t get what they want-the reason for keeping secrets in the first place.

When you get into a relationship with a James Bond, you may enjoy the mystery at first. It’s kind of exciting not to know when he or she will suddenly appear to sweep you into whatever passed for his or her Aston Martin or private jet and then just as suddenly disappear again.

As the relationship moves along, however, predictability becomes more important and desirable to you, but the James Bond has no interest in being trapped by your rational expectation of continuity in the relationship.

You begin to snoop. Bond leaves you alone in the car or the apartment for a few minutes, and your fingers stray to the glove compartment or desktop. You hate yourself for what you’re doing, but you can’t stop. Bills, letters, scraps with phone numbers-a flood of information without explanation. What you’re looking for are the missing pieces of James Bond’s life that you don’t get to know. The problem is that you have no threads to weave into a fabric of truth. All you have is scraps that have no clear meaning.

Or, worse perhaps, you DO find something; a breathless love letter you didn’t write, a sexy card you didn’t send, a photo that isn’t you. Now what do you do? Now you have information and a whole new conundrum. In order to confront James Bond with the information, you have to admit you’ve been snooping. Then Bond has the perfect out: he or she can get mad at you for snooping, and never have to own up to the rest of it.

The other thing that happens is that you lose trust completely. Being in a relationship with someone you don’t trust isn’t being in a relationship at all. It begins to undermine your trust in yourself as well and that undermines your self-image, which makes you more vulnerable, which undermines your self-confidence-you can see the descending spiral here.

Meanwhile, James Bond isn’t making any changes. The secrets and lies continue, surrounded by denials and protestations of honesty or indignation that you would even suspect him or her of not being completely truthful.

James Bond has difficulty with both truth and honesty, which makes trust impossible.

The sad thing is that even if he or she changes completely, it’s still really hard to build trust because of the history. So you get more and more suspicious and less and less trusting while James continues along the self-focused path of getting his or her needs met above all else.

When the situation (we can’t really call this a relationship) finally blows up-and these relationships almost invariably blow up rather than fade away-your ability to trust anyone blows right with it. The next person who comes into your life will be under the microscope, and that is a very uncomfortable spot for anyone. The new potential partner often departs to avoid being distrusted at every turn."

This isn't a very satisfying way 2 end the discussion, though. For2nately, the Harleys have METHODS for recovering trust and love in even the most dire of dire relationships. It can be done, should be done, because it HAS 2 be done by the individual if they're 2 avoid what Colllins describes in the last paragraph. If there is 2 be a "new potential partner" or a recovered existing relationship, a solution 2 these behaviors must be found.

No matter where you go, you take you with you.

best,
-ol' 2long

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Pray for me

I plan to discuss what I know with my W tonight.

I will be hard to keep from being angery but
I will do my best to approach this out of love
and seeking understanding.

As Dr Phil says "Only ghost and Monsters live
in the Dark" You can not address a problem
until it is brought out into the light.

I need to be honest with my feelings and stop
pretending every is ok. She needs to know
how deeply it has really affected me.

If she cares at all about me, maybe this will
cross her mind if she is tempted again.

Lord be with me and help me forgive those
who have tresspassed again me.

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Joker, do whatever you need to try and save your M. I think you have more than enough evidence to make you concerned. In short, I think it's your right to do whatever you need to save your M.

1. Be very careful that you do not get caught as WS will try to use this against you and make you feel bad.
2. Be prepared for what you may discover. There is usually a lot more going on that you may realise or be prepaired to find out.

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B-trayed,

I am trying to save my marriage.

I have to confront her now or I risk
being consumed by the green-eyed monster.

I am not concerned if she accusses me of
spying. I am searching for the truth.
If she does not want me to spy, she
needs to tell me everything herself.

I know enough that She has to say can't
make it much worse. I would rather know
everything now then have new secrets
uncovered later.

I am at the point where I have nothing to lose
At worst, we get divorced. At best, We can
rebuild the life we both want and deserve.


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