"Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-By-Step Guide to Helping You Decide Whether to Stay in or Get Out of Your Relationship"
by Mira Kirshenbaum

It scares the h*** out of me... I've just read the first few chapters and I hope my W will never read this!

The author asks 36 questions and if you answer 1 (one) of those questions with "YES", then it is *probably* better for you to leave the relationship.

Well, my W has moved out, so according to the author she has already taken steps to start a life without me, so it is better if she decides to divorce...

I'm curious as to what some of the questions are.

I really don't put much stock into books like that.

Okay, I read this book..and really, take it with a grain of salt. It does NOT take into consideration that love can be restored..it really takes into acct mostly your feelings at the moment.

and do NOT assume you know how your wife would answer. I gave my husband all the questions in this book..and his answers surprised me. We are actually separated physically...but his answers indicated he would be happier if he stayed in the relationship. We took it instead to say that it would be worth his while to work on the relationship--which hasn't happened yet.

Just becasue your wife has moved out does not mean that she has taken steps to end the relationship--just so you know.

I read that book.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dutchboy74:
The author asks 36 questions and if you answer 1 (one) of those questions with "YES", then it is *probably* better for you to leave the relationship.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had 2 (two) answers "NO", the rest was "YES"...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It scares the h*** out of me... I've just read the first few chapters and I hope my W will never read this!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It shouldn't!
1. - no way you have all "NOs"?
2. - Even I had only two for to stay, I'd still stayed IF he changed...

The book is about happiness, I'd say TOTAL happiness... and I don't know ANY spouse who would have all NOs answers... Sad, eh?
(If all would follow 'the rule' of the book, I don't believe anyone will stay married...)

Anyway, no book gives us an answer nor makes us decide according to its 'solutions; of our problems, but a good book makes us thinking... So this one does...

Miss Priss..II'll list the questions, but you should know that there is discussions involved with it too. And just because a questions *seems* to lead you somewhere, doesn't mean it necessarily does. A note on how the book is set-up..the questions go in a certain order for a REASON...for example..if you have a medical condition, first you see if it's this..if it's not, then you go to the next one. There's a purpose in the order. Also, it does note that you have to be honest with yourself..and can't only think of the bad things just because you're in a bad place. Let me know if you want any of the discussion associated with the questions. (PS there is, in addition to the question, a "guideline" and then a "diagnosis"..let me know if you want them)

1)Think about the time when things between you and your partner were at their best. Looking back, would you now say that things were really very good between you?
2)Has there been more than once incident of physical violence in your relationship?
3)Have you already made a concrete commitment to pursue a course of action or lifestyle that definitely excludes yoru partner?
4)If God or some omniscient being said it was okay to leave, would you feel tremendously relieved and have a strong sense that finally you could end your relationship?
5)In spite of your problems, do you and your partner have even one positively pleasurable activity or interest (besides children) you currently share and look forward to sharing in the future, something you do together that you both like and that gives both of you a feeling of closeness for a while?
6)Would you say that to you your partner is basically nice, reasonably intelligent, not too neurotic, okay to look at, and most of the time smells all right?
7)Does your partner bombard you with difficulties when you try to get even the littlest thing you want; and is it your experience that almost any need you have gets obliterated; and if you ever do get what you want, is getting it such an ordeal that you don't feel it was worth all the effot?
8)Do you have a basic, recurring, never-completely-going-away feeling of humiliation or invisibility in your relationship?
9)Does it seem to you that your partner generally and consistently blocks your attempts to bring up topics or raise questions, particularly about things you care about?
10)Have you gotten to the point, when your partner says something, that you usually feel it's more likely that he's lying than that he's telling the truth?
11)In spite of admirable qualities, and stepping back from any temporary anger or disappointment, do you genuinely LIKE your partner, and does yoru partner seem to like you?
12)Do you feel willing to give your partner more than you're giving already, and are you willing to do this the way things are between you now, without any expectatin of being paid back?
13)Do both you and your partner want to touch each other and look forward to touching each other and make efforts to touch each other?
14)Do you feel a unique sexual attraction to your partner?
15)Does your partner neither see nor admit things you've tried to get him to acknoledge that make your relationship too bad to stay in?
16)Is there something your partner does that makes your relationship too bad to stay in and that he acknowledges but that, for all intents and purposes, he's unwilling to do anything about?
17)This problem your partner has that makes you want to leave: have you tried to let it go, ignore it, stop letting it bother you? And were you successful?
18)As you think about your partner's problem that makes your relationship too bad to stay in, does he acknowledge it and is he willing to do something about it and is he able to change?
19)Haw your partner violated what for you is a bottom line? (this concerns a question after an exercise of listing your deal-breakers...important to note that the line was not violated if your partner didn't know it was a line)
20)Is there a clearly formulated, passionately held difference between you that has to do with the shape and texture and quality of your life as you actually experience it?
21)In spite of all the ways you're different, would you say that deep down or in some respect that's important to you your partner is someone just like you in a way you feel good about?
22) Make a list of realistic reasons why it would be good to stay in your relationship then:
With your new, more complete, more realistic set of information about what it would be like for you if you left, have you discovered new, more probable realities that now make leaving seem impossibly difficult or unpleasant?
23) Make another list of reasons why it would be good to leave:
With your new, more complete, more realistic set of information about what it would be like to leave, have you discovered new, more probably realities that now make leaving seem easier, more attractive, and make staying no longer desirable?
24) Does your partner do such a good job of conveying the idea that you're a nut or a jerk or a loser or an idiot about parts of yourself that are important to you that you've started to really become demonstrably convinced of it yourself?
25) As you think about your partner's disrespect, is it clear to you that you do everything possible to limit your contact with your partner, except for times where you absolutely must interact?
26)Do you feel that your partner, overall and more often than not, shows concrete support for and genuine interest in the things you're trying to do that are important to you?
27)Would you lose anything important in your life if your partner were no longer your partner? Is what you'd lose something that makes you feel good about your partner for being able to provide it?
28)Whatever was done that caused hurt and betrayal, do you have the sense that the pain and damage has lessened with time?
29)Is there a demonstrated capacity and mechanism for genuine forgiveness in your relationship?
30)Is it likely that, if you have a reasonable need, you and your partner will be able to work out a way for you to get it met without too painful a struggle?
31)Is there some particular need that's so important to you that if you don't get it met, looking back you'll say that your life wasn't satisfying, and are you starting to get discouraged about ever being able to get it met?
32)Given the way your partner acts, does it feel as though in getting close to you what he's most interested in is subjecting you to his anger and criticism?
33)When the subject of intimacy comes up between you and your partner, is there generally a battle over what intimacy is and how to get it?
34)Does your relationship support your having fun together?
35)Do you currently share goals and dreams for your life together?
36)If all the problems in your relatinoship were magically solved today, would you still feel ambivalent about whether to stay or leave?


Okay, firstly..all those questions are separated into different chapters which helps to give them some context. It's REALLY hard to answer the questions without the benefit of the discussion because you're not always sure what they mean. For example, my husband said he had nothing left to give. But that's not true because even though we've separated, he is still giving me a lot. Not everything I need, no...but he does have the capacity in him to give more. Also the unique sexual attraction..can't tell you how many times he has said to me about one particular thing he loves about my body that turns him on...and we do have great sex, even now. But he answered no to that question.

Also..it does not directly deal with affairs..least of all us BS who have to deal with the fog. My lord, how many of us would hightail it out of our relationships just by going by this book?

The author of that book should be "court martialed, shot, and sent 2 the Russian Front", (Hogan's Heros).

Seriously, if the author were a therapist, they ought 2 have their credentials revoked. NO therapist should be advising, or appearing 2 advise DV.

-ol' 2long

Thanks for posting the info for me maddy.

I definately agree that many people would be "packing it up" if just going by this book just from the questions I've seen.

I thought this ? was rather funny.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 6)Would you say that to you your partner is basically nice, reasonably intelligent, not too neurotic, okay to look at, and most of the time smells all right?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

OK, I'm relieved by all your replies.
Thanks you all!

But I'll still hide the book from my W...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


I'd say it's much better idea to work on those items you think would be reason for her to leave (read it or not...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


I'd say it's much better idea to work on those items you think would be reason for her to leave (read it or not...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Worry not about that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
The Plan A King am I <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

but there's nothing I can do about me not being reasonably intelligent, not OK to look at and not smelling allright... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Got it, same here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

... also, he was/is with OW(s) just to prove how much he feels a unique sexual attraction to my majesty (that is myself) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

...

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

oops <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

edit not equal quote <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have to say. I HATE this book!!!

WH bought it the day after D-day.
Before that he told me he was willing to get counseling and work on our marriage.

The day after reading this book, about 4 days after d-day he tells me we should split up and I should move out. Then he gave me the book in order for me to see his reasoning for the break. So, I bought SAA and had it sent to his house and told him that here is the reasoning behind my feeling that the M wasn't over.

I still have that book he gave me. I was only able to read a few pages and it made me sooooooo angry!!! You can basically make the book fit whatever view you have at the moment so for anyone who is in the fog it basically gives them justification to end a M.

I wish I could strangle the person who wrote that book.

That's my opinion about that stupid book!

You have so many counselors doing the same or even worse... and you pay much more than for the book...

He took it just as excuse I'd say...?

Hmmmm...

I think it's one of the books a counselor suggested I read... (can't remember if it's the counselor I'm going to now or a previous one).

I HOPE it's not the current counselor!

I pretty much stick to pro-marriage, Christian, advice books.

Ok. Well I read this book and while I think it may not apply very well to couples where is WS is continuing the A and is in very deep fog, it did give me a good feeling about my relationship. It help me realize that we had lots of strengths in our relationship even if it was difficult for me to see them in the current turmoil. I am curious about which items on her list people disagree are fundamental problems to a relationship.

Gillian, BS
WH has PA 11/1/03-12/18/03
d-day 1 12/18/03
d-day 2 7/7/04 more details of PA and
EA 1196-?

My H thinks this book was very helpful to him. BLAH! He was just looking for a book to back up his fog. I told my couselors about this book and they both thought it was trash.