Hi, Cherished posted this a long time ago, could not find any responses. would love to hear some ideas please.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it makes no sense to fight. However, I know it makes no sense to just take it and hope your spouse learns to care for you because you are so willing to take it.

Like the story of the frog put in cold water that is gradually heated up until it passes out and is cooked, I have tolerated a lot in my marriage -- swearing, having things broken, an affair...

The problem I see is that I am still treated badly.

My husband's response to my concern included the words "hysteria" and "rant". I was calm when I spoke.

How do I respond to dismissiveness? He is no longer swearing or hitting. He says the affair is over. I told him I am hurt by what he says. He said that I need to deal with that. I should have no expectations of him -- that's what he learned in anger management. He learned that you need to tell your feelings and then have a "take it or leave it" attitude. Anything else is controlling.

I agree that fighting is out. Separation seems extreme when there has been improvement, BUT what do you do? How can you show care when you are treated with dismissiveness?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I now find myself in a very similiar predicament.
Usually when relationship communications are on my mind to be discussed. Aside from retaliating which is my gut instinct (& often found difficult to keep in), using the "I feel when" statement which gets guffed at as pyscho babble, or humbly accepting I am stupid & needed to be told something, or my feelings are invalid etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , I end up feeling resentful, not loved or loving. Got the huff, need chocs. Always trying to see the best in this man of mine. I hate the crap we led ourselves into, but appearantly tiz all my doing, if I'd shut up, put up & get on with living, I wouldn't feel like this, Ktulu must be losing her grip on what is rational & sane to stop dwelling in the past & rehashing hurtful sh1t.

Help & Advice Please

One day (years ago) .... I decided to say one phrase when the situation required some sort of an honest comment .... that comment was...

"Ouch. That hurt!"

Then no more words after that. Just stand still while openly looking at my spouse.

Eventually, the issue needing to be discussed comes to light.

Pep

And you know what else happened?

My H also began to do this when I had slung one of my barbed arrows into his heart!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"Ouch, Pep, that hurt."

Feedback in invaluable. It gives direction as to where the work needs to be done.

"Shut up and put up" are conflict avoiders. A big "no no" in good relationships. It kills love to feel you have no voice in the relationship.

Pep

Ktulu, I feel your pain. I am dealing with the same treatment and am very close to filing for D.

We are trying MC again, but until H understands that I cannot just "shut up" and that he needs to get involved in the re-construction of a M that he nearly destroyed, we will get nowhere.

I have hit some kind of "brick wall" or breaking point. I cannot and will not accept any more hurt to be placed upon me or DS without a challenge. Lately it's been really ugly around our place, but this has been 16 years coming.

H's current tactic is to take my "hyper-sensitive" reactions and react calmly & quietly as if I have absolutely certifiably gone off the deep end, turning the focus back around onto me and my current state of mind. (That he created!)

This man who has ranted, raged, insulted, abused, for 16 years is actually INSULTED when I treat him the same. Major issues with being able to dish it out but not take it.

I don't really have any advice for you as I have not found anything that works with my H and am pretty certain that our M is over.

Do whatever you need to do, whatever you feel is right in your situation... just do NOT do NOTHING.

You & I and a lot of others out there do NOT deserve the poor treatment that we have endured.
I am doing what I have to do now (and should have done many years ago) to protect myself and DS from H's destructive ways.

I'll let you know if I come up with any useful advice, but for now just know that you are not alone.


Take Care,
Shelle

Thanks Pepperband
Yeap the humour works sometimes will as of today adopt your line with a smile
"Ouch, that hurt"

edited (hit something before ready to send) in light of it being me - that would appearantly be normal... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> - called away to change baby..sshhh

Used your signature line earlier today with H, he still hasn't decided what planet I'm on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Obviously during one of my need to talk - dreaded misunderstanding/crazy/sh1t stirring moments -

Tadah yeap Conflict Avoider H - cause you do realise he is married to a woman who knows her feelings & expresses them in his opinion to hurt him - so therefore Ktulu is a b1tch with no caring for H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

ShelleBelle Wow thanks for the understanding. I know I feel enraged at times throw my ring in the corner and feel ready to run, but not before I let him know WHY I feel it. (starts out calm, then after putdowns, fav "Not this sh1t again, I thought you were over it" in a snide tone, geeze even playing the xbox can make me feel like a child in the way I am spoken to & looked at, it's all in the tone, attitude, eyes - it does hurt, will it cause a divorce - not this year, will it get better - this is where I am at.

Fortunately H wants to be here, sadly he also says he has done as much as he can. - That could be an honest statement - I would love someone to kick his [censored] & see how easy it is to be aware of how your actions & words can make someone feel. Though in mature light we are all supposed to be responsible for our own feelings... that's tough to get.

I feel in my gut we have worked so hard to get here 20 years later, we've seen the best & worst of each other that the big picture is worth salvaging.

So I've come to a point in our 2yr recovering where I now want to address this soul destroy behaviour. I feel sure H would like me to address what he calls 'nagging' - when bringing up uncomfortable topics. Bitting lower lip, eating Kitkat with large mug of tea 2 spns of sugar, hoping Peps words will work to keep the peace, can eventually see that being turned around too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Has anyone actually broke the mould & got through? How?

<small>[ August 29, 2004, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Ktulu ]</small>

Say it without the smile....

A smile ("Ouch. This hurts." ) will give a mixed message.

Have your face match your words.

The purpose is not to confuse, but to give immediate feedback as to how the words or actions hurt.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ShelleBelle66:
<strong>
This man who has ranted, raged, insulted, abused, for 16 years is actually INSULTED when I treat him the same. Major issues with being able to dish it out but not take it.

You & I and a lot of others out there do NOT deserve the poor treatment that we have endured.
I am doing what I have to do now (and should have done many years ago) to protect myself and DS from H's destructive ways.

Take Care,
Shelle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the things that strikes me so bluntly is how it seems these inflicors of such more anger, pain and destruction are the ones wimping out on recovering these M's. Why does it seem the wrong spouses are the ones having the A's. Don't get me wrong, I realize that NOTHING justifies and A, but the spouses who've endured this crap for so long are the ones who should be throwing in the towel, instead more than not it's the spouse who has been the aggressor to the demise of the marriage is now turning tail and running. I guess it makes sense, the abused spouse is the most rational therefore they weigh their actions along with their convictions more reasonably.

Ktulu,
If my W was acting in a dismissive fashion the only recourse I would have is Plan B or separate myself from them. I don't believe that much of you actions will reform them into a new belief. If someone has been acting out emotionally for a period of time they begin to embody that garbage. It becomes a part of them, only drastic events will shake them. Maybe some rock bottoms of life will influence them to pursuing a more positive frame of action/or an action at all in regards to their M. After I had accepted that there wasn't much I could do if anything to wake up my spouse, I'd began simply protecting myself and my S & D as Shelle put it. I think these manipulators crave attention and control and once you are able to oust them, not make them a focal point that they will seek you out because without you to kick around who else are they? I know my comments may seem a bit callout, but it's just my opinion. Some people need "ROCK BOTTOM" and it's not as if you are punishing them, they seem to find it all by themselve.

Take Care of YOU!

<small>[ August 29, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Okay Action NO Smile - go it - thanks

Rock Bottom has been hit, we are together again.
I can't see myself growing old comfortably with this treatment for sure, nor do I believe at times H is even aware how hurtful he can actually be, yes FM it is almost a instinctive in his responses.

Again this is where I personally am at. I don't want to continue accepting it as NORMAL or a part of him, that cannot be helped. Am I being unreasonable?

Ask your H sometime about his wounds....

NOT when you are angry or upset or defensive yourself. Ask when you are in a good place personally...

"Husband. Who has hurt you deeply in your life? How did that person hurt you? What did it feel like?"

This could be pillow talk.... end of day quiet time discussion.

If he does not have anything to say.... add this ... "I know that most angry men are hurting men. You are often angry. I would like to hear about your hurt someday when you are ready to open up to me."

....... then bring him a cuppa something delicous. This is the "anti-nagging" approach to recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep