Today is a new day. It has brought me the following:

My WW came home some time around midnight. She went to look at apts with OM. Then fell asleep at his mom's house. He has offered to possibly 'help' out with the rent. Isn't that nice.

Earlier someone told me that I have no marraige or family left. That I am it. Since it is up to me, I need to make sure I stay sane.

I am rapidly starting to hate my WW. I need to swallow my pride and do whatever I can do to get her out of my life as fast as I can before I hate her. She has become a terrible person and does not deserve anything that I can give her.

This morning (actually starting last night) I am past emotional detachment and into rage. After her vulger display in front of me and all our friends last Friday, I can no longer find a place in my heart for this person.

I am ashamed that I asked her to marry me, disgusted with myself for trusting her and mad as h3ll at her for what she is doing to the kids.

She is most likely going to still want the volentary seperation. I do not want that any longer. I see no need to hold on any longer. I have to pick up the pieces and start my life over.

Here I am world, single dad of two.

Hi Canthishelp,

It seeems that your love bank is in the negative. I would count that as a blessing. It will make parting easier. Sad that it did not work out. But at least you will not have to go through withdrawal. Please be careful. If you get to angry, please walk away from her.

Canthishelp, this is how you feel TODAY. And you might even feel this way TOMORROW. However, let's just slow down, take some deep breaths, and calm down.

OK, I, for one, feel much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Now, IMO, what you are experiencing right now is perfectly natural and understandable. It is your ego. Your ego has kicked in, and it is saying, "How DARE she do this to you. How DARE she do this to your kids. She is hurting me, hurting them, and she must be punished by being evicted from my life. This behavior is intolerable."

I'm not using the word ego because you are a man, by the way. This is exactly what MY ego says to me also, to this day, after being in recovery for 5 months, and the A being over for 8 months. BUT, just because it is normal and understandable, doesn't mean we are a slave to our egos, right???

You sought out a Marriage Building site after you found out your WW was a WW. You didn't rush down to city hall to D her. Some people do that. H and I have a couple that we are very good friends with. After she had an A 8 years ago, her H D'd her right away. After 3 years of D, the kids going back and forth, crazy lives, they got back together. H and I are going to be their witnesses when they marry, they have a 1 year old daughter (and 2 older kids). They were so happy that I didn't rush out and D my H, because they know from experience that even though the emotions are intense and uncomfortable right now, if rash decisions are made, the pain from those decisions can last for years.

So, you want to handle this so that in 10 years, you look back and know you did everything within your power to make your marriage work. Then, if it ends in D, YOU will be in a position to move on to another relationship eventually a whole man. Without dragging this A, or parts of it, around with you for the rest of your life.

I know it is hard. I know you are probably just venting. Great. Vent here. DON'T do rash things. That is why we are all here . . . to keep you grounded when everything feels so out of control.

I know, I have been there. Their A will die a natural death. Think about it - your M began in the light, and it has hit a rough patch. Their A began in the dark - you really think it can withstand everything that goes on in the world??? Sickness, finances, family, etc. Paaalleeeezze. Believe in the process.

Hang in there. Just smile and nod at her. AND, to appease your ego, try shifting your perspective a bit. She didn't disrespect YOU nearly as much as she is making a fool of herself in public with her OM. You have sympathy because she is nutty - she has disbelief and judgement. Try and be her safe place. If you can't be that, just try and Plan B her and get her to move out. You don't want to lose your LB$ totally.

SS

This is bull. I am now a taker.

I just found out she took the kids with the OM to go apt hunting. She was gone all day yesterday at the gym and then to the park with the kids, I can only imagine with the OM too. How does this phlegm bag get to be a part of my kids life while I work myself to the bone 12 hours a day? Bull pucky.

Our house is a mess. She has not cleaned in forever, I do all the laundry, she washes the dishes from the morning, I do all the rest. She has not made the kids dinner in a week, she takes my money and goes to Wendy's of Mcdonalds with the kids for lunch and then gets pizza for diner.

She wants me to pay her to watch our kids. Gimme a break. She is going back on oral birth control for the OM. She is gonna move in with him. He is gonna get to be a part of my kids life.

I want her out so I can start my life. If I can somehow afford to pay for day-care full time (not a super big if, but a good size one)and share custody with the kids, I should be able to get away without giving her much money. We sell the house, use the money to pay off the credit card debt we jointly accumualated, the balance can go to finish off her car payments, she gets her car, I keep paying for my car and we both start our new lives.

She gets the kids on W, TH, F and every other Saturday after Day care, I get them the balance. With the exception of Fathers and Mothers day and the holidays as follows: I get Turkey Day, Fourth of July and Vets Day, she gets Christmas and New Years, the day before Turkey Day. We can juggle Labor day as needed.

Sounds easy doesn't it? I can make it happen. If she doesn't get out of my life soon or end the A, I am gonna kick her out. I did want to save my marraige and would still love too. But I cannot while she is having an A. She wants out, I want her out.

I am fine with a seperation for 1 year to 'cool' off. I do not want an immediate D. I cannot and will not have her in my life while the A is going on. Period.

She has burned to many bridges and I am sick of sweeping up the charred mess of our marriage. I cannot and will not continue to be used. The ends cannot justify the means.

The bleeding in my heart is going to stop soon, because I will either die or close the sucking chest wound by removing the cancerous letch of a wife from my life. I only pray my kids will not be too poisoned by her lies.

I am seeing in red now, and the world looks nice.

Hi Canthishelp,

I completely understand. I could not take my husband openly haveing an affair in front of me either. I think his lasted longer than he admitted and that was bad enough. I completely understand. I have asked him to leave my house overnight for simply being disrespectful to me. You know your boundaries and evidently your wife is refusing to respect them. You sound like you are ready for plan B.

canthishelp, I tried posting to you last night, had technical difficulties, and gave up. Sorry.

It does sound like you need to go to a Plan B. Everyone has their limits, and yours are your own.

Have you seen a lawyer yet? I cannot remember if I asked you that, or . . . somebody else. That is first step, so you don't lose anything - kids, home, etc.

Next question is, has she set a date for moving out? Perhaps that is something you need to do with her. How have you been communicating? My H and I got into such heated discussions, we had to communicate purely by the written word - mostly emails. Letter work too, though.

I would communicate to her that you are ready for her to have her A somewhere besides in front of you and your kids. And in the separation agreement, you might be able to get it written in there that she cannot have the kids around OM. She should not be apartment shopping with him. I understand you both have the kids set up with each other when not working for daycare, and you are right - you will need to take charge of that and find alternative care.

Your job right now is to make the kids' lives as steady and secure as possible. Devote yourself to that end, and let her chaos pass right by all of you. It will follow HER wherever she goes. Let her realize that you are not the source of her craziness - she creates it herself.

How are you doing today? Keep posting.

SS

We are working on how to seperate. That date cannot be soon enough. Our trouble is all about the kids. Who is going to watch them and how is she going to live?

Our debt load currently prevents us from being able to support two homes. I know the house is going to have to be sold, when that happens, we will be better off.

How much will I have to pay to support her? I know the NYS child support laws, but not sure what the rules are for maintenance.

If I could do anything, I would take full custody and let her leave with half our stuff, no child support either way and a small maintenance payment until the house is sold and she gets her cut. I think I could put the kids in Day-care full time and still let her have them a few days a week and on some weekends. Trouble is, she works in the evenings and I do not know how she can ever watch them and work at night. She will not listen to an idea about getting a day job full time.

She suggested that instead of paying for day-care, I give her the same amount of money and she watches the kids all day. I do not like that because it means she gets all the free time she wants and I am in the same boat as I am in now, stuck at home every night. I guess that is not too bad, but I will not support her forever.

We are both so confused.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She suggested that instead of paying for day-care, I give her the same amount of money and she watches the kids all day. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why on earth should she be PAID to watch her own children? She should be GLAD to take care of her OWN CHILDREN! Sorry, this just made me a little angry! GRR! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> And if she doesn't have time for a social life, then TOO BAD! She's the one who made her bed, now she has to lie in it!!!!

For you, in the evenings, I wouldn't look at it as "stuck at home"; however, this is the time when you can develop a wonderful bond w/your twins. They grow up real fast before you know it. And on those nights when you feel like going out for a bit w/friends, ask a relative(?) perhaps to watch movies w/them or something until you get back. Not sure if you have any other relatives available around you to do this.

Still thinking about you,
Y

OOPS, DOUBLE POST!

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: StandingTogether ]</small>

ST, I agree completely. I have no desire to pay her to watch our kids. If she gets full custody, that would be a differant story, but since we currently are trying to get joint custody, I do not think I should have to give her much at all.

She does not see it that way. If she comes home tonight, we will try and talk about this more. I almost wish she would just move in with the phlegm bag so we could start this process. I hate waiting.

I am starting to feel bad again. This is a holiday weekend and we can all leave work early today and Friday. I feel like I have no place to go. I go home and the WW will either leave to be with the OM or we will just be misriable together. I feel lost. I feel like I have nothing and I don't feel like doing anything.

I just cannot believe that she can be so blatant with me. I told her I want honesty above all else, almost thinking that she could not handle telling me what she is doing, but it is so easy for her. She told me the other night she fell alseep at the OM house. I cannot believe my ears.

Now she gets mad at me when I try to do something fun or am away from the house. I have wedding and a stag to go Saturday night. We were supposed to go to the wedding together, but that is not happening. She is dropping all kinds of comments like "You get to go out all night" things like that. In two weeks is my brothers wedding, so I will be busy all that weekend too. So now I am getting "You get to go out every weekend"

Did she forget all the dates she went on with the OM? Did she forget not coming home at all! She gets to feel loved and I get $hit!!!!

Time for a deep breath.

And another.

How can I survive this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How can I survive this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just like we all do, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. And it does get better, I promise. You just need to give it . . . time. Isn't it weird, when we are happy, there doesn't seem enough time, and when we are miserable, there seems too much time.

canthishelp, I know it is hard, but you can get very good hints and insights if you can keep your WW talking to you. While she is still there, BTW. And I agree with the others, do not pay her to watch her own kids. You'd be better off paying daycare, keeping as much control of what your children are exposed to as possible.

What steps have you taken to end the A? Exposed to friends and family, and the OM's . . . ? Parents? I guess? If exposure hasn't worked, then I believe you are on the right path with the separation. I just read a post by RedHat (a veteran poster) to SadMarylandLady, that said Plan A as long as you can, but do not tolerate the A going on under your nose. RH did it for 6 months, to ensure he got custody of 2 D's, but that was his only reason.

Let her know what it is like in the "real world" with PB. I am trying to get a hold of HINY, as she is familiar a bit with NY child support and custody laws. Perhaps you could call her out with a direct question with a new thread. HopefullinNY is her full handle.

I am so sorry you are in such pain. I remember those days alarmingly well, unfortunately. My H left on 12/31/03, and I finally began to heal in the beginning of March. Surprisingly, as soon as I began to heal, my H began to defog. It was a very interesting time. And by the beginning of April, he was back home with NC with the HW (homewrecker) - who was, I don't know if you know, my supposed "best friend." Nasty double-whammy!!!

Anyway, I found journaling to be very helpful. I would write my H letters full of my pain, my love, my anger . . . and I just put them in a notebook. Didn't give them to him. Would have gone in one eyeball and out the other. His attention was NOT focused on me. Sometimes it helps just to get that nastiness out of your body. Also, working out lots helped me with the anger/rage.

Keep posting!

SS

CTH-
Spidee has given you some great input! I can not do any better- I only have 2 quick things-
1. Journaling. Very very helpfull. Many people told me to do this - I dragged my feet - when I finally started doing it, I realized how helpful it was. The thoughts that cloud your mind can go on paper and give you a moment of peace.
2. SEE A LAWYER! Right now you are going through all the possiblities...."I could give her this - she could do that " See a lawyer. They deal with this stuff every day and will be able to give you an idea of what worst case scenario looks like, as well as best case scenario. Just becuase you see a lawyer, that does not mean you have to file. It would just give you a starting point. It would relieve a lot of the questions for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just cannot believe that she can be so blatant with me. I told her I want honesty above all else, almost thinking that she could not handle telling me what she is doing, but it is so easy for her. She told me the other night she fell alseep at the OM house. I cannot believe my ears.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this must be so hard to hear. You know what my counselor said? He told me that I'm the type of person that doesn't want to hear the bad stuff, I want to hear the good stuff. I never realized this but I think it's true. I want honesty from my H but then when he gives it to me, I don't like what I'm hearing. And I had to ask myself, do I want spared or do I want the truth? Latter answer. I want the truth, no matter how much it hurts. This means I have to be prepared to hear the things I don't want to hear.

I remember my H telling me when the OW & he's R was fizzling. In order to follow the Bible & be the faithful W I should be, I didn't say a word. I followed the "win him over w/o a word" concept. After he was finished talking, I said to him, "I'm sorry things didn't work out for you the way you planned." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What?! I can't believe I had said that! I should have been gloating. I wasn't. My H was waiting for it & when I didn't give it to him, he was completely shocked!

If you're not ready to hear these things then, I believe you are making the right decision in separating. This will give you time to be alone w/your children & not constantly be worried when your W will be getting home & you don't have to hear the nasty comments.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Time for a deep breath.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Breathe in, breathe out. Relax.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can I survive this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To reiterate Spider (who's so excellent w/words!), one day at a time. My favorite hymn during my separation was, "One Day at a Time, Sweet Jesus". BTW, did you read the reply I sent to you on your other thread about LB?

Just try to remember, God does not allow anything to happen w/o having a specific purpose for it. We may not know the purpose, but it will reveal itself in time. Right now, I think that you need to talk to your W about child arrangements & then let her go. She will discover that, not to do cliches, but "the grass ain't always greener on the other side". When reality hits her, and it will hit her hard, it will be tough for you to see her fall, but I think that's what needs to happen in order for God to reach her & shake some sense into her more or less.

Lots of prayers coming your way,
Y

Thank you all for your help. The WW is supposed to be home in a few minutes to discuss our seperation, so I do not have much time.

Standing, I did get your other message, and I appreciate your faith. Any help I can get, I will gladly enjoy.

Spide, Once again, I owe you. I am not sure how I will get through this, but knowing that others have is a help. I think the A is pretty fully exposed. I dropped a bomb on the WW boss, my BIL went to his house and laid on the horn for 10 minutes or so. They all know and do not care. (his family I mean)

Womanoffaith, I have started the journal, it is very small and in fact I can use the posts here as a good one. I think I will write her some letters and keep them. That may help me. And, I talked to a lawyer when all this started. I am going to trust our MC a bit longer to mediate a seperation agreement. I think he has his act together, and if I do not like it, I will get me a shark. A real hungry shark.

I will let you all know how it went in the AM. Unless she doesn't come home, in which case I will be back in a few hours.

I am not gonna proof this, so no 2x4's for spelling/grammer errors

Well, she came home around 10:00pm. That is a little suspicisous, but since I know she is still in the A, what does it matter?

She wants the kids during the day and I get them 4 nights a week including Sunday and every other Saturday. She is willing to come to our house and pick them up. She is not asking for an un-resaonable amount of money (about $50 more/week than I offered).

I think it will work out.

The only other thing I think I have left to do is require that it be a legal seperation, not a volentary one.

If she wants to keep seeing the OM, than she cannot be my wife.

I remember the first time I introduced her as my wife. It felt so good. Now, I have to tell people I am seperated and eventually divorced.

Crazy thing is, I still would love for her to be my wife.

This morning is starting off OK, only got about 4.5 hours of sleep last night. I have to start taking the anti-D in the AM rather than PM to see if that helps any.

Time to make the doughnuts!

CTH,

Okay first let me say welcome to MB and I am sorry that you have to be here. This is the best place for you though. You will have great support and make tons of new friends that never forget you.

Second, DO NOT pay her to watch your kids. If you read SAA there is a woman in the book that leaves her H for OM. Well the H decides to quit paying for stuff, what happens? She needs that financial security and she goes home. You see by paying her the extra money you are meeting a need that she needs that OM isn't going to fill. The only way to get her thinking about coming home is to go into a Plan B and do not meet any of her needs. You are just like me, too nice! I have been too nice my whole life. I have so many tire tracks on my back you cant count them anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . When my H left me for OW the first thing I did was go to court for custody. We got joint custody with physical placement with me. That is what you want. Go and do it today. Like ASAP. Try for the physical placement. It is just like full custody basically. You have all the rights. Second while you are in the court room, ask the judge to have it so the children cannot be around OM for 6-9 months. This is what I did. The judge here asked me why I told him my 3 year old was freaking out and the last thing he needed was an extra person added to DS life. Make sure you stress that the kids are upset and you think they may need counseling. That the OM will just confuse them because they are only children. You only have to pay her 17% of your gross per year. That is what she is entitled to. That is for the children, NOT HER! If you pay for her to watch the kids, then you are paying her to be with OM. Court is free. As long as you don't have a lawyer, and for custody court you don't need one unless it gets down and dirty and you both want one. I would at least get it rolling as it takes some time to get in. I waited 3 weeks. At court you can try to settle it without a lawyer and if she wants to argue then you get a lawyer and go back another time and let them duke it out. I can tell you that her leaving for OM, and not having a job is not going to look good for her. If you have to get a lawyer, get a mean one. Sorry but that is really what you need. They have to be able to prove the children belong with you. The reason I say this is because if she moves in with OM the judge won't rule to keep the kids away from him. You have to do it before she moves in with him if those are her plans. I went to court in february and OW was named right in the custody agreement not to be around the boy. If you need any other help please email me I would be glad to help you out Tracestar@zoom-dsl.com. Or respond I will check later. I live in Central NY, not the city. More towards Ithaca, home of Cornell University <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Good luck and you are in my prayers!

HINY

Oh and get in a plan. Sounds like Plan B is best for you as your love bank is going into the negative. Plan A doesn't work too well when you have bad feelings like that. It is possible with kids I did it. Get SAA and read it if you haven't already.

HINY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wants the kids during the day and I get them 4 nights a week including Sunday and every other Saturday. She is willing to come to our house and pick them up. She is not asking for an un-resaonable amount of money (about $50 more/week than I offered).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand why you're paying her to watch her own children. If she doesn't want to spend time with them without beig paid, she's the one who will miss out on all of those precious moments & then she will regret it later. She needs to feel what it would be like w/o you meeting her every need. If the OM cannot take care of her, then she will need to learn how to take care of herself, w/o you.

I agree totally with HINY. If the custody clinics are free, then take advantage of them. Also mention it to the judge that she wants to be paid to take care of her kids & see how fast that gets rejected. She is not a babysitter, she is a MOTHER. And if she doesn't want to be a mother, then give you full custody of your kids. She is the one who will be missing out.

This is ultimately your decision and I'm sorry if I sound nasty, that isn't my intention. It just peeves me to no end when a mother/father has kids, and they'd much rather be doing something else than raising them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Why did they have kids in the first place? Sorry, didn't mean to add to your frustration or offend you. If I did, I apologize.

Love in Christ,
Y

canthishelp, HINY has a good point. IF she gets half custody like that, AND you pay her for daycare, AND she moves the OM in with her, AND perhaps she gets more money from your for child support? You are ENABLING her A. If you do this, that is what you will be doing. You will be making it SOOOOOO easy for her!

Imagine her convo with OM: "Guess what? We can afford that apartment we looked at the other day! My H is going to pay me to watch our kids during the day, while you are at work, and then he is going to take them at night, so we can be all alone together! PLUS, I think when we go to court, I can get him to pay some kind of child support because he makes so much more than I do. Isn't this great? See, I told you, this is going to work out just fine!"

CAKE EATING!!! That is her #1 priority right now. It is for all WS! It's their MO!!!! DO NOT get sucked into that. It all sounds real good on paper, very civilized, and that is what she is playing into with you right now. Men are particularly vulnerable to "logic," no offence. Usually, logic serves the family very well, and is a great counter-balance to the woman's emotionality. However, this is all about emotions.

I think you should do what HINY says. I know you are trusting your MC for mediation, but it sounds to me like this MC might not understand the nature of an A? Do you know their experience with recovering M's from A's? I say this because, you making it easier on your WW is NOT going to bring her home or help her develop good feelings towards you. And it could end your M before the A even has a chance to die its natural death.

WS's are not themselves. They are not rational, thoughtful, caring, compassionate, nor do they have anyone's best interests at heart - besides their own.

Go get a custody hearing scheduled, before she moves in with OM, or that will eat you alive! Your kids there while she has OM there, too??? Think ahead!!! You think it's bad now? It can get much worse, believe me, and you will be powerless to change anything.

Contact HINY. Get more facts. She knows the system. You do see how you could get royally scr3wed here if you are not very careful, don't you? Do not expect your WW to protect anything from anybody. She doesn't even think she is doing anything wrong!

Boy, this post is full of exclamation points! I must really mean all this stuff I am telling you!!!

Think about a crack addict. If you give them money for food, what do they spend it on? If you give them money for drugs, what do they spend it on? If you don't give them money, do they peacefully go away? Um, not usually. Then they just break in and TAKE what they want. You must protect.

Hang in there! You can do it! What kind of donuts are you making?!?!

SS!!!

Did I strike a nerve or am I just that pathetic?

OT: My new job interview went well. I may come out of this with a job!

If we divorce or seperate, I will have to pay her something. I believe that is the law. Regardless of who has the kids, I will have to pay her something. Besides, if she is going to have the kids around, I do not want her living in a dive.

With 2 kids, the finicial responsibility is 25% of the total family income. Since I make 80% of the total family income, I have to put in 80% of that total 25%. If we have joint custody, don't we split it? I understand that if the kids live with me, I could get more. I do not think they will live with either one of us totally.

In addition to the potential child support, won't I be responsible for alimony of some sort? In the SAA book, the woman (who's name is Sue, just like my WW) got a court order for money. I would rather not have that happen. Perhaps I should make her do it?

I don't know what to do. I do not want to make her mad because I feel that would hurt our chances of getting back together. I do not want a huge custody battle for fear of losing or hating my WW. I do not want to give her anything at all!!!!!!

is this the real world? When can I get off the coaster?

I am making jelly doughntus with whip cream on top. They are yummy. Next is peanut. Any requests? Who brought the milk?