There was a thread here a while back that touched my heart talking about true vs. false repentance. It was in the prayer request forum titled: Pharaoh’s Prayer-False Repentance. It touched my heart! Wow!

As a result of that deep internal look I want to explore True vs. Partial Forgiveness relating to the recovery process. I believe that partial forgiveness truly hampers restoration progress and can doom the recovery to failure. Let me explain…


What is forgiveness? I think we casually define it as a willingness to set aside our hatred or ill-will for someone who has wronged us. In a broken marriage, the BS set’s aside the hatred and retaliation toward the WS in an attempt to restore the marriage. That’s great but the process can be undermined by deep feelings of distrust and disgust that are unresolved and keep at the surface level. Often negative comments are thrown in the face of the FWS who is legitimately trying to restore.

Let me say that allowing complete forgiveness to heal the wounded heart is not an easy thing. Oh my gosh, it will probably be the hardest thing the BS has to overcome. In fact, it is a miracle when it does happen. I just want to say that partial forgiveness can really destroy the chances of restoration in the marriage. You see, true biblical forgiveness is to pardon…to release someone from the consequences, payment or penalty of the hurtful wrong (sin). I have always been taught (heck, I taught it) that forgiveness is instantaneous but trust has to be built back over time. How wrong…at least related to Godly forgiveness! If you don’t trust then you have not really completely forgiven. Let me explain, the lack of trust implies you have not released them fully from the penalty of the wrong. You might not hate them anymore but you haven’t released them fully and restored them to their former position without consequences.

I hear you screaming “There ARE consequences of sin!” That is true at times, especially when the offender is unrepentant or is in false repentance (the offender is just sorry they got caught…see thread titled: False repentance ). The consequences are often there to force the offender to their knees and back to the truth (similar to Plan B). My question to you is how deeply do you really want restoration if you are still holding them at arms length?

Jesus dealt with this in Matt 18:21. Peter wanted to know how many times he had to forgive before he had a right not to trust them again. “How often do I have to forgive if they keep sinning? Seven times? Jesus said not seven times but seventy times seven.” In Luke 17:3 Jesus says, if someone sins and repents seven times a day, you still have to forgive (Sin…repent. Sin…repent. Sin…repent. etc. all in one day). In fact, if you don’t forgive them then your sin won’t be forgiven (Matt. 6:15). That should make us take a hard look! Do you understand that this is the beauty and wonder of salvation! Jesus forgave us and released us from all of the consequences, payment and penalty of our sin…past, present and future. His payment covered all of it or else He would have to keep dying over and over again (Heb 9:25-28). What a miracle! We become completely free from the penalty of our wrong doing! The dilemma is: once we are saved are we free from ever sinning again? NO! We still sin, we just attempt to make no provision for doing it again (we burn the bridges). Did you hear me? True repentance burns bridges!

Paul tells of his battle to overcome sin in Romans 7:14-25 when he described his wanting to do what was right and still messing up (two natures). Does God partially forgive? Does He withhold His trust? Does He only partially remove the penalty of our wrong? NO! In fact He removes our sin as far as the east is from the west (Psalms 103:11-12). The problem is in the hurt and pain of an affair we feel justified to hold grudges or withhold trust. After all, the WS has done a horrible and terribly selfish act without thought of how their actions are destroying the lives of the people around them. If they repent and ask for forgiveness should they really get off scott-free? We feel justified to hold them at arms length or become the “arm of the Lord” to judge them. We feel “right” not to trust until significant time and consistent perfection has built back that destroyed trust.

That is our human instinct. But as it has been pointed out before, if you go by what you “feel” you will probably be wrong. Jonah felt the same way and he was judged by God when Nineveh repented (Jonah 4:9-11). Jonah got mad at God for forgiving the city and not judging them. He lacked compassion and a willingness to forgive completely. The bottom line is that God expects us to forgive and restore just as He does. God wants to bless us with unlimited forgiveness when we repent. For us to hold back trust only hampers the restoration process in the marriage. God desires forgiveness and restoration. Remember the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32)? He was completely restored. To partially forgive without restoration is not real forgiveness.

I KNOW that true forgiveness in the wake of an affair is hard. It’s nearly impossible…that is, without God’s help. We need to be careful that we are not simply making an agreement not to hate, dislike or kick out while we continue to judge them and hold them at arms length. We are commanded to completely forgive just as Christ forgave us….

Without penalty…completely restored.
Restored position,
Restored trust,
Restored love.

Complete forgiveness is incredibly HARD!

That’s why it is such a MIRICLE when it happens!

Please consider true forgiveness.

2scared

I was surprised no one commented on this...

2scared

Well I'm gonna..but it's a chewy topic..not something I want to just stomp all over without much thought. Going to take a few and think about this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Noodle, I'd like to hear your opinion. I am being accused of being unable to forgive. I am not religious so forgiveness in a religious sense if out of the question. I am an athiest.

You also once said something about trying to force your emotions to be a certain way. People keep saying forgiveness is something you decide to do. I'm having a problem with that because I cannot decide to forgive. I might say the words, but I cannot make the internal me oblidge.

I have the book Forgiving the Unforgivable. Great book. I did fine until I got to the forgiving part. Apparently it got good reviews but critics thought the second part of the book about reasons for forgiveness was far weaker than the firt part part.

Sometimes I think it's just my hormones. Men, take note, don't cheat on your W when she's going into menopause.

Anyway, re your other problem. I probably wouldn't make too much of it. (which is rich coming from me) But just this once. Loved you analogy of the knife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by anyname:
<strong> Noodle, I'd like to hear your opinion. I am being accused of being unable to forgive. I am not religious so forgiveness in a religious sense if out of the question. I am an athiest.

You also once said something about trying to force your emotions to be a certain way. People keep saying forgiveness is something you decide to do. I'm having a problem with that because I cannot decide to forgive. I might say the words, but I cannot make the internal me oblidge.

I have the book Forgiving the Unforgivable. Great book. I did fine until I got to the forgiving part. Apparently it got good reviews but critics thought the second part of the book about reasons for forgiveness was far weaker than the firt part part.

Sometimes I think it's just my hormones. Men, take note, don't cheat on your W when she's going into menopause.

Anyway, re your other problem. I probably wouldn't make too much of it. (which is rich coming from me) But just this once. Loved you analogy of the knife. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well one thing is for sure, if you are unable to forgive you must face the reality that you M is in serious peril. Have you told you H this? I wish my W would have confided in me her true feelings on forgiving my pass actions. She does now say she forgives but she has not forgotten. I have an issue with this as well, because we are all intelligent beings who understand that memories are always tucked away if not in the conscious mind but at least the subconcsious, so to feel the need to mention, you "Have not Forgotten" tends to reflect a true unwillingness or inablitity to truly forgive. If a BS cannot forgive their spouse for the M infraction, and own up to being somewhat responsible for the condition of the M that afforded the A to happen, then in MVHO it will repeat and also impede recovery, resolution and the pursuit of a happy M.

I am going to re-read this passage on forgiveness and further digest the topic. I need to direct some of my forgiveness inwardly, as I have been living with the remnants of guilt far too long and doing so has only enabled my W to go from BS to WS.

FM

If I could wave a magic wand I would but I can't seem to stop the whole affair being foremost on my mind. People talk about forgiveness but in order for this process, I need to see repentence and I cannot wait forever. My WH was having his A on Sundays when I took OUR children to church. I sat there praying for him, getting the girls to light a candle for their grandparents and daddy's kidneys (bad health problems) and he was committing adultery. It is SO HARD NOT TO FEEL TWISTED AND RESENTFUL. I have NEVER harboured such feelings before. I am usually non-confrontational, easy-going, smiling. I don't like feeling like this but I CAN'T HELP IT. TT

I am a slow-and-steady kind of girl. If I had an "Animal Spirit Guide," mine would be the turtle. I'm not going to win any races (not physically, but in the spiritual sense) getting where I'm going in life, but I am slow and steady.

Sometimes I see others who race ahead of me, and I get kind-of jealous, and think "I wish I was where they are at," either physically in shape, or financial, or career. But I just keep plodding along in my own time, my own way.

And more often than not, I end up passing these people at some time, as they are broken down, hit a slump, ie, gained back the weight they lost, business they started went bankrupt). And I have such compassion and sympathy for them. Perhaps they just went too hard, too fast? Perhaps their "Guide" is a lion, tiger, bear (OH MY!).

Anyway, I am using a lot of metaphors and similies, I don't believe in "Animal Spirit Guides." What my point is, forgiveness comes at different times for different people. Trying to rush it, could be more dangerous than simply waiting.

anyname, there is another good forgiveness book out there that I am reading (recommended from someone on this site) called "Forgive for Good" by Dr. Fred Luskin. It is scientifically based, not Christian.

Also, I think there are other stages to come to before forgiveness, given that we are not perfect spiritual beings. We all come with a lot of our own garbage. I am Christian, my d-day was 8 months ago, and I have not forgiven my H. He has forgiven himself, which I am so grateful for. We go to MC, our M is better than it ever was before, but I am not willing to let my pain go. I don't know why, I'm just not. My H does not NEED my forgiveness for himself. I need it for myself, eventually. Forgiveness is for one's self, not others, not marriage.

I believe acceptance is the first stage. And I am working through this right now. Accepting that this happened, it will be apart of me forever. I will always have this wound, to some extent it will always hurt when touched just right. I have a c-section scar that hurts to this day occassionally, and the child is almost 12! Years old!!!

My goal is forgiveness, but I am not on a timetable. I truly believe God understands that.

SS

Good thoughts, 2scared.

But sometimes Fear takes over and I cannot forgive. Fear of being taken for a ride again. Fear for empty promises and lies. Fear can grip me so hard, I am blinded to Trust.

I guess one would need a lot of Faith to Forgive. That faith, I am still seeking.

But I know eventually, I will forgive.. that would be in order for me to move on. No point carrying baggages around for the rest of our lives!

SS, what a beautiful post. I think there is too much mumbo jumbo discussed in relation to forgiveness. Yours was such a refresing view. I wrote down the name of the book. Don't get me wrong about the other book, it was excellent at expressing just how damaging betrayel is. But I just couldn't deal with the reasoning about forgiveness.

There are different histories, different expectations, different personalities and different coping skills. You mix a difficult history with a fragile personality with limited coping skills and throw an A at them at the most vulnerable time of their life e.g. mother dying of cancer... then add to the cocktail: about to turn 50 and OW 26. And the naive expectation that your wonderful H of 30 yrs is devoted to you.

I kinda figure that eventually other happier events will eclipse my hurt and it will become managable. At least H doesn't expect forgiveness. He's reasonably wise for an 'old fool'.

AN

This is such an important topic and as Noodle puts it a "chewy one!" FM, I wanted to commend you for your honesty, I have an even greater respect for you now. Your story does painfully illustrate the pitfalls of not truly forgiving the foolish actions of the WS.

There is no timetable because as SS says we are all individuals but in the end it MUST occur for true happiness to return. Anyname, I have a (I'm embarrassed to bring attention to it, but it's important for you to read) reply to your last post on the MAC thread. (Very related to this thread, it evolved into a disscussion on the importance of forgiveness) KB

Originally posted by 2scared:


If you don’t trust then you have not really completely forgiven.

I completely disagree.

Trust and forgiveness are separate but sometimes related issues in recovery.

I forgive my child for crashing the car. I do not trust him immediately upon forgiveness and hand over the car keys right away.

I would like you to defend this statement further... perhaps then I will come to an understanding of your meaning.

We can forgive child molesters, yet make sure they are never alone around children, ever again, because they cannot be trusted... *** edited to say*** I am in no way comparing adultery to child molestation ... but I am attempting to discuss the twin concepts of forgiveness and restoring of trust *in general, and how they are related but not the same thing.******

Pep

<small>[ September 03, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

KB, Forgive me for not responding on the other thread. I felt it was not right for me to say more there. I read the most interesting thread you referred me onto. I'm trying to find a way of explaining how your posts effect me. Picture a shattered mirror. Bits pieces I can see myself in = but the rest of it is too broken up for me to make sense of.

Not much of an analogy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Sometimes I would like to sit down and explain to you the extent of where my head is. The back drop of me and the long term problems with my emotional stability. I need a therapist. What I get here is the equivelent of someone with severe depression being told to pull themselves together. Why on earth don't they just do that? Telling me to forgive is just words to me. I don't know where to start and how to do it and all of your good intentions leave me thinking it's pointless to even talk about it here. Another analogy would be to sit me down to algebra - any level algebra, as I don't understand any of it. You tell me that it's easy and to just get on with it, and I'm left thinking ok, there's all those numbers and lines and KB says I should be able to do it. But I haven't got the first clue how to do it. I don't have the skills.

You mentioned my faults and how they should guide me to feel I must forgive faults in others. I'm reluctant to discuss it with you because although you have a very soft side, some of your words are quite harsh and at the moment I don't feel like another thrashing.

To me it's not about: you want a happy M so you have to forgive. I can't say that I ever think in terms of getting back a H marriage. A happy M is what I had for 30 yrs and I'm grateful for that. I guess the real truth is that I should leave the M. I have such strong beliefs about infidelity and I was stupid for thinking I could ever live with it.

Pep,

Let me clarify. First, I agree that forgiveness is a process that takes time and since we are all different and our stories are different, that timetable is also different for each of us.

I also agree that an unrepentand WS is going to be met with not much willingness to forgive.

BUT.... My intent is to bring your attention to the fact that holding back forgiveness and trust slow down the restoration process and can even kill it in it's tracks. A BS in their anger and pain can daily punish a returning and repentant WS hindering the potential for healing. If that is not emotionally dealt with then the M might be be able to be restored.

Complete Forgiveness is VERY, VERY difficult and a Godly miricle when it does happen.

As to forgiveness and trust. You're right, we tend to forgive (with our mouths) but withhold trust until we see evidence of faithful truth. That's normal... BUT that's not the way God did it. He forgave and trusted. He restored to original position... NOW, he also said: "Go and sin no more". God does forgive and restore trust...but He also judges our sin.

We're not God. Forgiveing and trusting again are time related and need to be seasoned with common sense.

Moral of the story: Watch out that you don't withhold so much forgiveness and trust when a repentant WS attempts to return to the M. Watch out that your pain and hurt doesn't punish and sabotoge the restoration of the M. Stay open. Stay soft. Forgive, love and learn to trust again. For the sake of the M and your own mental health.

2scared

{{{{Anyname}}}} It's never easy....I know. But to encourage you, I do know you have accomplished some very hard things already in your life such as leaving the JWs. Did I ever tell you that I too, have been through the experience of leaving a cult?

That's a hard one AN, and you did it! That tells me that you are capable of SO MUCH including healing from this betrayal. I'd like to talk offline if you would be willing. No 2 X 4's (if you perceived any in the post they would have been from my BH anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) just some honest girl talk.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll post my addy for you. I think we'd have alot to talk about and I do need to explain a few things to you in private. Let me know when you'll be on if you do want to talk and I'll post the addy. KB

Anyname:

I hope you don't mind me "butting" in here but you wrote:

Another analogy would be to sit me down to algebra - any level algebra, as I don't understand any of it. You tell me that it's easy and to just get on with it, and I'm left thinking ok, there's all those numbers and lines and KB says I should be able to do it. But I haven't got the first clue how to do it. I don't have the skills.

Now please don't think I am taking this lightly (or think it's easy!) when I say this...

Just the other night I was explaining to my H how I have finally come to a place where I can start "letting it go" (& it's not 100% of the time, but its a start!) - I used algebra as an anaology! I kid you not!

What I said was, I had to take algebra 4 times - once in summer school (HS) then again in HS, then again in College (10 yrs. ago) then AGAIN in college before I finally figured out why I had to keep taking it over & over again. I was trying to UNDERSTAND it...I am not mathematically inclined. I kept ignoring the straight out formulas given & tired to understand these formulas b4 using them. I couldn't understand them so I would get stuck! I finally just said I will NEVER understand these formulas! I know what they are, how to use them, but wont understand them ever. Just apply them and do the problem & get it over with. I passed the fourth time with a 4.0 in college math!

I am not saying recovery, or forgiveness is that easy. But the principle of finally realizing you will never understand or make sense of the affair. I never will. BUT if I want to stay married, be happy & make our M what we always wanted it to be, I have to accept that.
My H is showing me everyday (every hour!) that he is remorseful and doing everything he can to make amends & never be in the place he was where he could even think about being unfaithful.
What more can I do? What more can he do?

I choose to stay (or let him stay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) because I love him & I want my M to work. I have to choose to forgive him EVERY time I think about the affair. Most times I do, sometimes I still get stuck, but I always come back around to - this is what I choose...to stay, to forgive, to love.

I think you will get there AN. I hope this doesn't belittle what you are going through. It's not meant to - just what came to mind when I read your post.

That was a good post, Frags! Being petrified of algebra myself, I thought that was a great analogy. I had some thoughts this morning about how maybe when we hear the word "forgiveness" it places a picture in our minds that somehow once we do forgive, all questions and hurtful feelings magically go away. When we are not in that place it is impossible to understand how we can possibly EVER forgive.

Forgiveness is an internal shift, a result of understanding that the person who has wronged us did not have evil motives towards us, but instead simply, inexplicably failed. Extending mercy and grace towards that person is the outworking of the internal act of forgiveness.

There is a big difference between thinking that a person's actions were meant to purposefully hurt us when in fact the hurt was a natural byproduct of foolish and selfish behaviour.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean that we stop trying to puzzle out the "whys" or that the work of dealing with residual hurt feelings is over and done with. It does not mean that the hurt goes away the instant we forgive. What it does mean is that we view the person who has hurt us in a new light, one that is not based on blame or judgement alone. Forgiveness allows us to have compassion toward the one who has wronged us.

It is a task made much easier if the person who hurt us is remorseful. Their dissapointment in themselves as well as their dismay at causing pain to us can be met either by refusal to acknowledge their pain and focus on exclusively on our own, or by forgiving them. Forgiving someone does not mean we excuse their behaviour but rather that we recognise that they made a mistake. With forgiveness, we become willing to move forward in the relationship without eternally holding their failures over their heads.

Forgiveness and personal recovery do go hand in hand. When we feel that we have not been looked out for, not looked after as we expected, our natural reaction is to look out for ourselves. After all, the person whom we trusted let us down and now who is going to watch out for us?

Unfortunately it becomes a trap if we continue to self-protect to the point where we cannot move forward, thereby unintentionaly putting our own recovery (and our marital recovery) at risk. It is hard work to get to the point where we can be strong enough within ourselves to extend mercy to someone who has hurt us. It's an ongoing process but a decision must be made at some point whether we will or will not forgive.

BTW, I am writing this as a past victim of abuse, not as a FWS, but it is SO appropo in the marital recovery process. Forgiveness in the end is not really for the other person, it is for ourselves. If we harbor bitterness and anger towards those who have harmed us, we will never have peace of mind, never have joy.

Some things can never be rectified, people die before they can apologize or we lose touch, whatever. At least in the case of a broken marriage, there is still the chance, still the opportunity to forgive, to heal and ultimately to recover. It is a decision in the end that each person must make for themselves and everyone is on their own timetable.

My H just said do you really think you should be posting on this subject and I told him why I was. Forgiving the unforgivable is HARD but I have made my peace with some of the demons from my past.

It is sad that I chose to create some new ones by having an affair but because my H has extended forgiveness to me I am able to work through the difficult, difficult process of forgiving myself. There are some here on this board who know of my struggles and know that when I speak of the neccesity of forgiveness, I am not speaking blithely.

To step down from whatever rightful position we feel we have as someone else's accuser and judge is a such difficult thing but in the hope of recovery must be done.

ForeverHers writes extensively on the topic of forgiveness from a Biblical point of view, but even for non Christians he is worth paying close attention to. There is a personal vulnerability neccesary for forgiveness to occur and with the grace of God available, to know that you ARE being watched out for, it becomes much less scary to surrender that self we are so desperate to protect, the self that was wronged. KB

Thanks KB,

Beautifully said and from the heart!

2scared

I wrote a long rambling reply then deleted it. The prospect of total forgiveness scares me. Total forgiveness of WW feels like I am saying " Well, it was OK to put a hand grenade in my heart and pull the pin. Here's my heart and my trust once more,do it again. "

The physical unity with another man than myself breaks my heart and spirit and I do not know if I can overcome that. God will need to be generous in blessing if I am to recover from that.

Then the lies, the deliberate hurt in the fog, the hurt of the kids.....so hard to forgive.

Thoughtful posts, thanks.

Bob, forgiveness is a GOAL just as recovery is. It's okay (normal) not to be there YET, but you don't want to get stuck indefinitely without being ever being able to extend it either. It's something to ponder in your heart for now, that's all. {{{Bob}}} KB

Just to let you know I'm still here following the comments. No time to respond more right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AN