WH just called.

He wants to take me out on a date Saturday.

He said he IS moving back home. This is what he really wants to do.

He said his mind was clouded.... that he feels like someone else had taken over his mind and body.

He said he misses me so much. He is sending the no contact letter to OW.

He wants to love me and have fun with me, etc.

I told him I would go out with him on Saturday. One of our best friends 50th BD party is on Saturday.... we could go to that together.

He went on and on and on about how excited he was to see me, and that the Plan B time has really helped him to look inside himself, and sort out what he really does want.

AM I DOING THE RIGHT THING BY GOING OUT WITH HIM?

WHAT SHOULD I DO BEFORE I LET HIM MOVE BACK HOME?

K7

whoa there, K. You can consider reconciliation WHEN and IF he ends contact. "Going to send a letter" is not ending contact, K. Don't you EVEN settle for anything less.

Has he ended contact? What will he do to repair the damage he has caused?

I would suggest calling and getting an emergency session with Harley before you proceed. You don't even want to suffer through a false recovery, K, where you let the WH come back too soon. It is more painful than D-Day. So please slow down and proceed cautiously here.

Here is a good thread about this, scroll down to Cerri's post: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=024255#000006

P.S. you don't want to agree to let him back until he has demonstrated that contact has truly ended. Talk is very cheap when it comes to WSes, they will often say whatever they need to say to get what they want.

I read on someone's success story (Carol's maybe)that her coach said 4 months of solid demonstration and dating, before he moves back home. I think she even waited a month before SF.

Carols post was very interesting and insightful, maybe Melody can direct you to that link also. I don't know where I found it.

Going to read Cerri's now also.

Good luck K, this is good news, but please, please heed Mel's warning. She has been here for a long time, and seen much.

Whoa is right!

Hopefully you have a written list of what you will require from your H before you even consider letting him back in your home. And stick to your guns - if every single one of those requirements is not met, no deal - no coming home. This list, obviously, should include the n/c letter, written by your H, but approved by you and mailed together (with a return receipt so you know OW has signed for it).

Failed recoveries are common when you jump the gun, K, and I don't want to see that happen to you. I would rather see the two of you go somewhere to talk instead of to a party. This is serious stuff - the future of your marital relationship is based on where you go from here.

Please, please, please do not let him just move in with words and promises. Let him prove himself first - with the letter and with his behavior. Let him prove that you and your M are what he desperately wants.

Okay, I'm back!

Had to go to town to pick up my new matress set.

I fully agree that he is not coming back home just because he says this and that. He's got some things to prove to me first.

I keep thinking of a few weeks ago, when he broke up with OW. He said he had broken up with her before. I asked him how long that lasted... he said 3 days. WOW!!! THREE WHOLE DAYS!!! Seriously!!! I've had headaches that lasted longer than that. I can see the pattern of addiction here.

What kind of things would prove his actions? Do you think he should come home earlier, so we can discuss all of this? With him living 60 miles away, unless I get a private detective, and the advent of cell phones (damn cell phones), he can be anywhere, doing anything, and I could still get ahold of him 24/7.

He says he totally understands if I don't want to go out with him. He says it's been good for him to be alone these past few weeks. And I'm thinking the whole time he's talking "You're not just waltzing back here just because you say you are. Things have to happen first."

Give me some pointers on how to approach this with him. He seems to want to sweep it all under the rug, and forget about it.

I want a letter of no contact sent to her (would really like to deliver it myself....)

I want someone else to deliver her cell phones back to her (I would like to deliver them with the NC letter....)

I want counceling for us together with Steve Harley.

I want RADICAL HONESTY.

I want to use the POJA in everything we do.

I DON'T want a false recovey. I would like for him to know that if he does this again, our M is over. OVER.

Suggestions? 2x4's? Kick me in the a$$!! Slap me up along side the head! I'm losing it!!!!

K7

If I could, I would get an emergency session with Steve Harley. Do they do that?

I need some hard and fast suggestions here, guys.

Hello?! BUMP!! NEED HELP!!! HHHHEEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP!

K7

K,

Perhaps you might refer WS to Plan B Letter and ask if NC letter has been sent.

If so, (and if you are hard line on this), you would be glad to have a date. If not, the date might have to wait.

By the way, YEAAHHH!!!! Sounds like WH is coming out of the fog.

You are doing great. And you are worthy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Thanks Miss M...

Right now I am witholding my Yeah! dance. I feel like watching WH with a wary eye.

I have made myself a deal.... I will not be sucked back into his triangle, and my reward? I will not be hurt by him more!

He needs to "toe the mark" as far as I'm concerned. He sounds very excited about this date and all, but I am being very careful.

I almost feel like saying "NO! You're not coming here, not until everything is in place, and final. And no, you're not moving back in when you think you are. Not until everything is in place, and final".

I almost feel angry at him right now. I don't know why, I just do. Almost feel like slapping him (something I would never do), but I do feel that way.

I will try to keep my vindictive tongue in my head, and speak to him with all the MB's education I have now.

But why do I feel so ANGRY?

K7

K, I wouldn't recommend seeing him AT ALL unless he can answer YES to this question:

"Have you ended all contact with the OW?"

Don't let him get away with "going to" end contact, or "working towards" it. It must be ENDED before you see him or else he is not serious. If he can answer yes to your question, then you can see him and discuss possible reconciliation. If not, then he is not serious.

P.S. in the meantime, I wouldn't commit to anything until you talk to Steve again.

I agree with ML..and I'd take it a step further..

You said he needs to toe the mark..I say that toeing the mark is standing as close to mark as he can get away with. A signal that he is truly reforming would be to identify the mark..and run the other direction. Have him set his boundaries deep and wide. Keep yours firmly in place as well. He should be willingly and eagerly doing anything he can to prove to you that he is adamant about restoring the M. Reluctance to share info..or hedging answers would launch every flag I had. You are right to be wary...a teaspoon of hope won't hurt..just don't swallow mismarked poison in eagerness of a cure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Okay.....

I guess I will write down the list I wrote of "I wants (in my reply above) and give them to him.

I have been thinking about doing this....

He should write the NC letter, I should approve it.

He should bring the cell phones. We could box them up together, and mail both the phones, and the letter. With a signature required upon receipt, by OW.

I also want to tell him that we need to councel with Steve Harley. And ask WH when would he be available for an appointment?

He's going to think I'm forcing him to do these things, isn't he?

Should I also tell him that if he doesn't willing do these things, then we cannot move forward?

I keep thinking that if we do these things (above) this weekend, and if he is really sneaky, WH could go back to work on Tuesday, and run up and tell OW that I forced him to do these things.

AND HOW WOULD I KNOW?

And then, what will OW do? Leave messages on his work cell? See him at work?

When WH broke up with OW before, a friend of hers at work went to WH office, and said "What did you do to T? She called me last night, and she was hysterical! She didn't come to work today!"

And I KNOW that WH recieved a call from OW on the adultery cell phone the very night after he broke up with her! I also KNOW that she left him a message on his work cell saying "I just wanted to know you're okay. I just wanted to hear your voice. I left a message on OUR cell phone too. Love you."

I don't know if he has been seeing her since I went to Plan B, but I do KNOW he has been talking to her.

I really need to stand my ground, I know. Please, God, give me the strength to say these things to him with kindness, and resolve.

I have to go to the town where WH lives (his apartment) today. Should I stop by there and have this discussion with him?

I don't want to go out on this "date" and give him the impression that I am caving in. I also think he's going to want to "stay the night", if you know what I mean (especially from some of the things he said when he called).

Am I thinking right? K7

Okay, here is what I would do. I would go out to dinner with him and discuss how happy you would be to have him back.

Instead of presenting demands, I would talk to him about how you both could work together to make this happen.

You could mention that MB has a plan for reconciliation that has worked well for thousands of people. If he is interested, you can bring up the NC letter.

When I did this with my WH he was very interested until I talked about the NC letter. He said it was "pointless". That's when I knew the truth.

Thanks, Believer...

That sounds like a really good plan.

I have to go to the town where his apartment is today (tonight is supposed to be the "date").

I could call him and ask him if he would like to meet me for lunch.

Then continue with the discussion. I really don't want this date if it is going to leave either him or me with false impressions.

I WANT TO KNOW! I WANT TO KNOW HOW HE THINKS THIS IS GOING TO WORK OUT, BEFORE A "DATE" HAPPENS.

Thanks, K

In my case, WH is still living with OW. Your situation sounds promising.

Just relax, and lovingly talk to him. My WH was comforted by the idea of MB having a plan. However when he heard about the NC letter, his true feelings came out.

So when you have your little discussion, be expecting problems. If he does not agree to the NC letter, calmly tell him that maybe it would be better to discuss all of this later. Then back to Plan B.

<small>[ September 04, 2004, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

k72172

I'd say: "Listen" to your gut right now. You wrote:
I really don't want this date if it is going to leave either him or me with false impressions.
You don't know the outcome and you do seem to be insecure.
I wouldn't go out with him, until your "intuition" tells you it's the right thing to do.

You had wrote that you "definately know" that he still has contact with OW...........well, if your husband really "knows" what he wants, he would for sure "end all contact with OW" without you having to tell him!!!!!

Listen to what your "gut" is telling you!!!!!!

hugs
bb

Thanks bb....

Met WH for lunch yesterday. We talked about the NC letter. He said "yes, I am sending one."

He said his mind had been "clouded". He felt like someone else had taken over his mind. Now he is seeing more clearly. He said he loves me, and doesn't want to loose me.

I took this as a good sign.

We went on our "date". Lots of friends there, had a really good time. WH seemed a lot more comfortable with our friends last night. He seemed more like his old self.

WH got all dressed up... he looked good. I told him so. I, also, dressed up. And I have to say that I looked "FINE"!

WH called me this afternoon. He thanked me for going out with him. Said he had a really good time. Also said it was just what he really needed right now. He told me several times how much he loves me, etc.

I will wait (but not for long) for proof of his NC letter. I just took this "date" for what it was... just some fun for both of us, with no R talk at all.

I have not budged at all. If the NC letter is not forthcoming quickly, back to plan B for me.

I have also made up my mind that if he begins to "waffle" on this, I will tell him it's over. I cannot go on with his indecision... especially when it involves my life.

I feel that if that did happen, I would have no regrets with my actions or behavior. I have felt too good these past Plan B weeks. I will not go back to feeling like his second choice.

Anyway, that's how I feel. Thanks for everyone's advice. I have taken it all to heart.

My path is clear to me now. Thanks, K

K, has he ended contact?

I am glad you had such a good time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As far as I know, he has not ended contact as of today.

WH had previoud plans for today. He was off with the members of his band for the day. There is a festival, and lots of bands were playing, they went to listen.

How do I ask him if he has ended contact without seeming pushy?

I don't want him to feel forced. I want him to do it willingly. He's also very stubborn, and will not be pushed.

I want to be very clear. I almost feel like writing the letter myself.

I did mention the NC letter in SAA. He has the book. Hopefully he will get that hint.

Thanks, K