* edited title idea stolen shamelessly from Niosgirl !*

I put a CD on in the kitchen last night, and while I removed the old CD to put in 'The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion' by the Black Crowes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I noticed that the CD of soggy love songs I took OUT was actually a counterfeit compliation made by OM and given to her soon after their fist sex session ( theres a date on the label).

I threw it across the room and it broke. Then I threw it away with a foul Saxon oath. Its a double CD so the other filthy trigger is still here. Absolutely understandable behaviour from me I think, APPALLING behaviour by WW to brazenly have it in my house but she will be hateful over it anyway.
She also has the underwear she worse for him still in the drawer. She is not in a place where she can voluntarily get rid of this stuff. She loves the reminders of him I guess. I have been trying to suck it up until she hits a place where she chooses to get rid as a gesture to me,but its so so hard.

Now I KNOW my WW will be absolutely FILTHY TEMPERED when she finds out for DAYS maybe WEEKS. * sigh *

And theres little peace at the moment npow she came back from her Karate weekend.DO I come clean and tell her and suck up yet more misery, or do I say nothing unless asked ?

Radical Honesty..I know...but a closed mouth gathers no foot, and isn't actually lying right ?

I'm actually asking about all such small LBs I think. My heart makes a big deal out of them, when in truth , in the MONTHS and YEARS path I must walk, they're not such a big deal I guess.

I just KNOW WW will punish me with yet more spite over this.

Any views how to deal with stuff like this ?

** Should I buy a LEGAL love songs compilation for her and tell her what happened ? Opinions please.

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

hi Bob

hope you doing ok.

Well I suppose you have 2 options..say nothing unless asked..yeah I know not radical honesty blah blah blah

or

you calmly talk to her & say you found amongst the cd's the one OM gave her just after she had sex with OM and in anger threw it from you & it broke.
Apologise, offer to replace it with a CD of HER choice, but say it is not fair for her to leave such painful reminders around for you in the house. If she must keep such things then keep them in her dresser. e.g setting reasonable boundary

And Bob dont go through the dresser at this time mate, I do know how you feel, everytime my wife dresses for work I want to puke....I feel like setting fire to her entire wardrobe she uses for work, but I'm not... yet...great restraint dont you think??? (lol)

however one day, though it might cost an arm & a leg..I hoping out it will all go!!!

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

Hey Aussie2,

I don't want to threadjack, but I just wanted to say hi to another aussie on here. I'm feeling a bit homesick in the last week, going through very painful relationship issues while very far from home and friends and family (i'm in Japan)... Just to let you know that I'm thinking of you in your situation. Sorry Bob - sending a lot of sympathy to you too!

Bob,
I used to look for things relating to OM, geesh I was only torturing myself.over and over AGAIN!
Aussie's 2nd choice sounds about right.

Mention why you broke it, and offer to replace it. Hang in there Bob, dang this whole A crap. I wish you the best, I truly do.

I wish I had better advice.

Thanks all
I'm not going thru the knicker drawer honestly ! The CD was in plain view.

I'll shut up unless she asks I think.

She hasn't made a single concilatory gesture to me since the A. She fully expects that I will be happy for her to still see OM as a friend , thinks I am unreasonable an untrusting as I am unhappy with that, I am unreasonable to be upset by the things and frillies she bought to wear with OM, and She refuses to give up refereeing although it is inexorably associated with the A and OM.

Again, I hope fora day when she will realise the hurt and will voluntarily get rid.

The CD breaking was a moments justifiable anger for me. This A stuff really is cr@p isn't ? Everything about it.

Bob -

I think it would be a very good idea for you to learn Orchid's "fog babble back". Read up on it through the link in her sig line.

You need to learn how to talk to a fogged out alien in a language they understand. You need to learn to speak nonsense to diffuse the anger. Remember "if you can't change them, confuse them".

Way too much anger going on in your household, Orchids "fog babble back" will give you some amount relief (personal humor) when speaking to your WW, if only to keep the b*llsh*t in perspective.

Leaving the CD in the house (and the panties) is extremely disrespectful and hurtful to you. I would have done the same thing if I was in your shoes. You're WW has no right to leave such very painful "discoveries" in your home. There is such a thing as common decency, fog or no fog.

Weaver

Hi Weaver !
I have been practicing reverse babble ! used it effectively last Friday when I managed to convey a lot of my feelings without LBing. Reverse babble is marvellous done well because it allows you to deliver some logic through the same 'hole in the fog' that WW opened to deliver some utter guff.

I agree about the disrespect, WW knows that dignity and self- respect are important to me and she is quite deliberately hurting me using these areas.

I have already conveyed to WW the disrespect I feel with some of her actions, but she has not responded as yet.

I should so this today BUT there is peace in our house today. WW made me a coffee,and wished me good morning. I do not want another certain day of hatred that would ensue if I raised these points.

I WILL do it, but not yet. Let me enjoy a day or two of a relative cessation of hostilities, to give me a breather and to maybe let a seed of civility flourish with my WWs fog.

Bob, let me get this straight in my mind, you are "worried" about the CD and her potential reaction, but she is not worried about leaving the children and you?

No, Bob, you don't tell her about the "mystery" of the missing CD unless she asks you directly. Then you tell her that you will not have anything that was part of the rape of your marriage around your house or a part of your marriage. You would like her to be the one to purge your house of anything related to the destruction of your marriage, but if she will not, you will not allow reminders of a choice to sin against God and you to remain in your house.

Personally I hope she does get angry. NOW is the time for her to get angry. She does NOT get to control recovery as she controlled the affair. YOU are in control of recovery.

Yes, I also understand your fear. She has NOT committed to recovery yet and you fear that it could drive her away. Bob, she IS already away. That choice was made by her some time ago. Now she needs to choose to stay....totally, even with fear, uncertainty, and trepidation...she needs to choose to TRY. She cannot keep one foot in the marriage and one foot in the affair. Withdrawal is a symptom, a consequence, but it is not a choice. The choice is to stay and to deal with the consquences, not to try to "have your cake and eat it too," not to make no decision and try to call that indecisiveness a "decision."

Bob...have you asked her if she wants to stay and "come home?" Have you told her that you stand ready to forgive her and that you love her? Have you told her that you are waiting for her to seek God's forgiveness because you are MOST concerned about the state of her soul and you want to spend eternity with her?

Bob, your priorities are still focused on the "here and now," on the "what can *I* do instead of what God can do. This "war" will not be won without God, neither of you has the strength or knowledge or ability to "walk in love" all on your own. This wound is a deep wound. This wound is a wound is wound against her soul, self-inflicted. This wound is wound that strikes at the heart of one of God's most treasured covenants, the covenant of marriage and family. Your battle is not against mere flesh and blood but against the powers of darkness.

Yes, it is your responsibility to do all that you can do. I am not advocating sitting back and doing nothing. You ARE the spiritual head of your house. It is your responsibility to lovingly confront SIN in an effort to restore the sinner to a walk with God and to fellowship with you. Your fight is certainly against the OM and your "fogged out" wife with respect to their actions, but it is foremost a fight against Satan, whether or not you ultimately remain married to your wife. It is a battle over her soul.

Ask her, should she become defiant and combative, "does God approve of adultery?" She need not answer. She need not do an "about face." But she needs to be confronted with the truth. She can lie to herself, to you, to others, but she cannot lie to God. God KNOWS all the secrets and all the dark places. God's light and the darkness of sin CANNOT coexist together. The light drives out the darkeness. Sometimes it's fast, like turning on a light switch. Sometimes it's slower, like the dawning of new day after the stormy darkness. A few rays are seen, and then after a while, the light becomes overwhelming and the darkness is "chased away."

Do you want her to give up Karate, or at least this particular Karate Association? Fine, she can do that and still not be married to you. Do you want her to give up the OM? Fine, she can do that and still not be married to you. Do you want her to treat the children with respect and to be concerned about them? Fine she can do that and still not be married to you.

Bob, the "objective" here is the restoration of the COVENANT of marriage with God as the rightful center of the marriage. It is the restoration of the love for each other and the choice to "take up" the roles for each of you that the Sovereign Lord God has assigned to each of you. It is the choice to recognize one's own "shortcomings" and to commit to changing them for the positive.

Do you want a marriage where only YOU are rowing the boat? You may stay in the same boat, but you'll make little progress and spend most of your time rowing in circles. Do you want a marriage where you are both rowing together and making steady progress toward your goal? Remember, God is the coxswain in this boat. Ignore his cadence, ignore his instruction, but don't expect the "smooth" waters and steady progress if you are each pulling in your own direction and only when you "feel like" actually pulling on the oar.

The "ship of marriage" has a crew of three. It always does even in marriages of nonbelievers. The man and the woman are a given. So who gets "enthroned" in the "captain's chair?" There are only two choices.
"Choose wisely grasshopper."


God bless and lead you in His wisdom and shelter you in the sure knowledge that God is faithful to ALL of His promises.

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Bob,

I must admit, you have a lot more patience than I have. My WXW drove me crazy for the last 15 of our 19 year marriage; but, whe was not so spiteful as your wife seems to be. Hang in there, set your goals, and work toward them.

I do have a suggestion for the MB board: have one thread, and stick to it like FiM does. It is hard to follow what is happening with two or more threads from the same person on the board at the same time.

Hi Bob,

I've got no advice for you but a similar thing happened to me. My W has a T shirt that the OM gave her. I knew he gave it to her before I knew they were having an A. Soon after I found it when I was folding the laundry and made sure to put it on top of her pile (we fold each others laundry, but don't put it away). I figured she'd notice that it was on top on purpose as a signal that I was awre of the shirt and it bugged me. I was hoping that she'd forgotten about it and would get rid of it. One night she put it on to sleep in and I told her that it bothered me that she was wearing it. Her reply was, "Lighten up, I'm just wearing it to bed." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I was so shocked at the insesitivity of that reply that I just let it go. Sometimes they just don't get it and there's no way to explain it.

So I'll just continue putting it on top of her laundry pile as my own little joke. Maybe someday she'll get it.

FoereverHers, your posts always manage to convict me in some way ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with all you say. My only push back is concerning timing.

Right now I suspect my WW is still in our lives 90% because she has nowhere else to go with OM reconcoiling hard with his partner and 10% because her deepest instinct, even under the fog is to care for us all.

If I set her the challenge you suggest NOW, she would either recoil (that is her nature, a counterpuncher) or she would start to make mechanical efforts to appear as if she is working on our M.

Fcat is, I want my WW to work with me on restoring our marriage OR I want her to leave us but either decion must be of her own volition. I could coerce various behaviours my leveraging financial controls or delivering demands as you suggest but right now they would only push away my WWs potential decision to stay with us.

She is crashing as her affair dies right now and there is no reasoning with her. She is too sad and desperate for reason.

Today has been perfectly pleasant, we had lunch out, talked about stuff ( not 'us').

She made me a coffee when we got home. This is a HUGE leap improvement from the terrifying harridan of last week.

God has moved hugely and obviously in our lives these 2 months and I really believe that now is time for me to love her and back off while God reassembles her heart.

God is convicting her of her sin and poor behaviour right now, not all at once. She is softening slightly even after I fully exposed proof of the affair to OM GF last week.

I am amazed at how civil she is right now in fact.

It is early days, I will let God work on her for a while, and I will work on my faith, my kids and myself to make sure that if and when my WW DOES decide to rejoin us and work on our M, I am prepared for it. We are not yet NEAR recovery, but the affair is effectively dead. WW must grieve for it I guess.

The demand you suggest DOES need to be made , but not yet IMO. Time to be still and know that HE is God.

Many thanks FH, always thought provoking stuff form you.

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fcat is, I want my WW to work with me on restoring our marriage OR I want her to leave us but either decion must be of her own volition. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">uh huh. We ALL want this, but it rarely happens this way. For most of us, ONE partner in the marriage has to "shoulder the load" for some time. Progress, small or large, is what you are looking for. But do not put the burden of wanting her to "work" with you on restoring the marriage on yourself, or on her, at this point. her "volition" is to be there. To attempt. That is enough. It is a place to start.

You reach down and help to pull her out of the quicksand. As much as you'd like her to be beside you helping to pull each other out, that is not today. That is future. Get her out first, then work on pulling together.

God bless.

FH that all makes sense. I think what I am trying to say is that WW has got to be receptive to being pulled out of the quicksand. Today I don't think she is.

I will pray over this ( an everything else !!). After so muc confrontation recently a period of calm and reinforcement may be good for all of us. Not LONG, just SOME TIME. God has given WW a lot to chew on this last week.

Bob, I'll tell you what I did with the reminders of OW I couldn't stand. When OW left H's business I went in to help him 1 or 2 days a week. There were several group pictures of staff, with her in the picture. So when H was not in the building with me I became the mad shredder. I would cut her picture out of the group picture and shred it. I even dismantled a frame, took her pictures out, and had that shredder buzzing. I have to say it was a very gratifying experience. My only regret is that during the month she was working there I noticed a picture of her on the dry/erase board in her office, with several other staff members. I noticed this when I was there and she wasn't. I REALLY wanted to shred that picture. I hadn't gotten to the other pictures yet. I didn't because I didn't want to freak H out since he did fire her. Now I wish I had. It would have thoroughly freaked her out.

Anyway, I never mentioned my shredding to H. If he noticed fine. I was not going to have any pictures of her hanging there. Plus I didn't want him to gaze at her. I never felt a moment of guilt over this. As far as radical honesty goes, H was so deep in the fog at that point he didn't even know how to be honest anymore.

After he became less fogged I remembered she had given him a sweatshirt for Christmas. It may have been pre-A. I told him I wanted it gone. He told me he liked the sweatshirt and claimed it was no big deal to him. I told him I didn't care, I really wanted him to get rid of it. I suggested maybe we could burn it. He was shocked. A few days later he told me he brought it to church to be given away.

Glad you are getting some relief from your W's venom. I hope she comes around soon, and as foreverhers said, begins to choose to work on the M. Take Care! CV

Bob,

Your wife is being calm and nice now. She was being *****y a day or two ago. Realize that this is part of the withdrawal process---the wild swings in emotion. Do not get overly upset when she is horrible to you (in fact, be calm), and do not get overly optimistic when she's being nice either. This period is one in which you need to be a rock---consistent, dependible behavior.

You broke the CD. No big deal. Don't make a habit of this. Once in anger is not a big deal, and it may give you an opportunity for having a calm discussion on getting rid of the momentos. My wife got a beautiful necklace from the OM for Christmas---and she's wear it to bed with me. Sure---I wondered if the chain would hold whilst I garrotted her with it (but figured the OM was cheap at heart, so it'd probably break). I did an end run on this one and told her sister---who wondered exactly what the hell she was thinking, and made it clear to her the next time they spoke. My wife's reaction... "this is bothering H??"

I doubt very much your wife is doing anything to be intentionally cruel. She's unintentionally clueless. Par for the course.

I agree with u on this Bob. PlanA is not teh time for avoidable confrontation. Just dont mention teh Cd unless asked....

I disagree with foreverhers on confronting your wife over anything right now! The last thing she needs is the truth about her adultery thrown in her face. Sheesh...shes living it every day. Remember that in teh bible the prophets were killed for calling the people to repentance. In other words noone likes to hear their sins laid out infront of them. You are trying to bring your marriage back together. Im sure your wife's own conscience plus plenty of others are telling your wife what she did was wrong. the last person she needs to hear it from is you!

Your role is to be patient, supportive and smile , even if you feel like biting her head off:)

When i stopped making judgemental comments of any kind to my husband, was when our relationship began to really repair.

I think u r doing brilliantly. You have teh patience of a saint! You also seem to be seeing results, slowly but surely...hang on in there Bob:)

I have a question......there is this crystal block with a picture in it of flowers and butterflies....Om gave it to me....WH saw it as a reminder of my OM and took it from the house and hid it in his desk at work before I had a chance to get rid of the dumb thing......if I ask him to give it back.....should I...A put it in a pillow case and smash it with a hammer in front of him....or B....Pack it up and send it to the OM in front of him.....C....Toss it in the trash...in front of him....I personally don't want any reminders of that whole stupid A.....will any of this make himm feel a bit better?

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Missing, any of the above ideas would make me feel better as the BS. Why not tell your H you really want to get rid of that present. Tell him your ideas and ask him what would be best for him. CV

well we hardly talk right now....he is still very bitter and in the middle of his own revenge affair.....he is currently homeless and I hardly see him...I don't want to do something that will tick him off....or make him think I am insane...I have beeen trying to be happy and postive whenever he is around.... I don't want to do something to make him see me in a bad light even though right now the whole smashing with a hammer one sounds good to me....

Missing, just read your bio. If your H is with the OW not sure any of your suggestions would mean anything now. Hopefully if you 2 recover it would be a good thing to do. So basically I'm not sure anymore what you should do. CV