hello again Noodle and Ark

Thanks for the advise. In the next day or two I will collect some of the thoughts that are bothering me and reveal so that I can get some feed back and see why im being troubled from the past. Actually most of the things that are troubling me now are from her past and i do believe it was before us being exclusive,but I need time to dig into my memory and add the dates up and get an exact place in time and see if it adds up.
In general did you ever leave your house close the door and get about five minutes away and think in your mind that did I close the door,well thats the way I feel right now about my wifes past.Stupid or not my feelings are confused and sorrow because I always new that we both lost or virginity to each other,but now somethings are coming in my mind thats makes me wonder if I did close that door or not . can you understand the way I feel. What could have triggered these feelings about the past??? Can this be the beginning of something bad to happen ??

I will explian further let me collect my thoughts.

Littleman1

Hey lilman!

Had to reread your posts to get an idea of what you were talking about...To be quite honest, I'm a little confused. ark gave you the best answer: we need more of the facts to give you our views.

You posted:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi
Im 36 years old and happily married now for 14 years.I have two kids.My issue is probably very stupid to some but I just cant get rid of it.We went out with friends for some drinks everything went well until for what reason I dont know I asked my wife about any relationships before we met. She told me of one and I just kept asking and trying to find out if and what she actually did with this person. I laughed it of but a few days later my mind could not get of the subject. Now a month later I find myself constantly thinking of her with another man and the pain I feel is so so bad. Is this normal will it ever go away. Why did I ever ask those questions.

Can someone help me !!!!!!
Littleman1</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Besides the HS reunion--(I absolutely despise HS reunions--they serve no purpose, but to compare, who has the most toys, it's a show-off thing, anybody I've wanted to keep in touch with I have (or could), and, to turn over memories, like in your sit)--you really need to ask yourself as to why your asking yourself these questions, now, after 14 (?) years of marriage. What triggered this? Why, now, are you resentful?

Normal? Sure. I not only married my wife, but my two sons as well. I completely understand "those" feelings. Like lordslady said, they pass. (They do!) So it concerns me: why, now?

I wish I could give you some more to think about, but this is all I know about your sit.

Best wishes.

Dear Liny

Thanks for your reply and taking the time to tryand figure out my problem. Well yes I have been hurting for quite some time now about my wifes previous past before we were invloved.It all started when we came home after the HS reunion. I ask her questions like who were they talking about,and then we got into discussion about how far things went and so on.I believe she was honest and told me how far if any relantionship went. She said dont worry you were my first and only sex partner. So me being male asked her to define her definiton of sex and she said intercourse. During all this I did not judge her or make her feel bad,because we were not a couple yet but we did know each other and were friends.I had fooled around a bit to but no sexual intercourse at all.I dont have a double standard, I believe just before we started to date as couple she said there was a boyfriend who tried to get her to do things and she said no,I can remember that as clear as day.It didnt bother me than that she kissed guys and possibly got a little intimate with them but why is this bothering me now after 20 years together and 14 years married with two kids.

Am I foolish ? Am I acting like a teenager in a jealous stage? Can someone help me to get better I would be willing to do anything so as to get these pictures, images, and thoughts of my present wife with others in a intimate way.

P.S. Was it a bad idea to ask for names and details?????

Littleman1 (love hurts )

I don't get it one bit..
I don't get why anyone would waste moment of precious time out of a day...worrying or thinking about what a spouse may or may not have done years and years ago....

I don't think many people are close to being the same people they were....how years you been married...14 years....

she's not the same person
and the fact that these were pre-you-exclusiveness...man why would you even care...

there's nothing that can be done or change about it anyways....

hecks mr. ark lived with a girl...I knew him then...I knew her then...thought they were both nice people...then met up with him again and she and he had broken up...

I don't waste one ounce of energy worrying about what they did or didn't do...and I've asked questions...mostly I ask him how could he have dated someone stupid enough to let him go... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
thought he was smarter than that...

I'm blessed to have him my life...and am certainly not going to dwell or PUNISH him today for things he did many moons ago....

I'm not gonna waste a day that I could be celebrating a marriage....focusing on a something that has no real effect on it...

you better realize littleman...the more YOU entertain these thoughts...the more power you give these thought processes the more known and comfortable they will become to you...the harder it will get to quit focusing on them...

neuro electro firings known as thought patterns occur some with and with out our own control...we conciously then attach how much value or weight they carry....

no use getting on a plane if you are going to let the thought of crashing consume and overwhelm your trip...but almost everyone on that plane has the same thought cross their gray matter at some time during the flight...

thank god the flight attendants realize how much value to place on those thoughts...

If you wife is with you live and in living color...building and dreaming and creating a place for both of you to fall to...
better get back to cherishing her...and not ruminating about what some 18 year old girl that looks like your wife...but surely is not her today...

ARK

hello Ark

I really appreciate your words of wisdom and courage. Thanks for helping my feel so much better and start to control and stop the madness.
I know that everything you wrote is true and if I keep on this course that it will be very hard to eliminate the thoughts.

You have now made me realize that and now I will finally begin to eliminate the thoughts and sherish my beautiful wife which she really is by the way,I trully am a lucky guy

Thanks Thanks Thanks for all your help

Littleman1

Littleman

Wow do you and I fall along the same plane. I'd like to agree with Ark and say it's easy to "just get over it", "put it out of your mind", "Cherish you wife”. I’d tell them what an insensitive thing to say. It’s like being hungry and driving past lines of restraints and all you can thing of is a big mac, whopper, French fries, etc…. and someone telling you, “hey, get over the hunger pains, just deal with it, think of how thin you will be if you don’t eat”. Yeah the pain may go away, but soon you’ll be anorexic.

There certainly is some underlying cause that is bringing up these feelings and triggering you synopsis’s. When the 5 ton elephant is standing on your chest and you can’t breath, it’s pretty hard not to think about it.

I’ve been going through the same things you are going through. That’s the reason I came to this site about a year ago. Trying to talk to my wife about her past and get truthful answers from her. She, unfortunately was/is uncomfortable talking about it. When I’d pin her down and have the guts to ask her specifics she would lie. I’d say not consciously, but because she is/was embarrassed for what she had done. She didn’t want me to think less of her. I would also think she was afraid to hurt me more than I was already hurting.

My wife had one partner before me, I had none. She was only about 19 at the time. Said she only had intercourse about 5 or 6 times with her boyfriend at the time. We’ve been married about 19 years now. So why is it coming back to haunt me after all this time. The past that really use to get me was, “What can we share now that she hasn’t shared with anyone else”? I’m still trying to figure this one out.

To ARK’S credit, she is right. You need to cherish what your wife is now and who she has become. She is not the 18 or 19 years old girl of the past. But you also need to figure out what is going on to make you bring up these ideas and thoughts. I’d say they are just a symptom of something deeper that is bothering you. I don’t know what it is, but I wish that I did. Sometimes the thoughts are just so overwhelming you can’t think of anything else.

billh...
to my credit as well I never ever stated get over it...
ever...
in fact my post if full of questions as to why...
why does littleman do this...

what would cause it..

only he can answer that...
but if the answer is nothing.
no affair
no triggers

then he better be forwarned that his OWN ownership of those thought processes can become consuming...based on no one elses actions...
just that his neurons have fired them...
and he's giving them energy and value...
and i certainly do stand behind unvalidated thoughts should be put out of our minds..
likity split....
valuable precious time can lost on this earth over thoughts that hold no fruition or value...


no one can change the past...it's not the issue..
if the issue is dishonesty
refusal to disclose
change in behaviors...then that's what one needs to deal with in the present...

I hate nothing more that posting to someone who witholds/omits information to the point that advice one gives is so way off from the what the real situation it makes me nuts..
NUTS I TELL YA!!!!

so just to clarify I never did or would say get over it...
but it is hard for me to understand that if everything else is good in a marriage..
why would someone worry about what came before in the way it's presented here..

ARK

Ok ARK, now you did it. Got me to post here 2 times in one day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I didn't mean to get your dander up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> You are one of the long term posters here, and I truly have the utmost respect for your opinions and ideas. This just hits close to home.

I just want to reafirm to littleman what I am feeling. I hated when I was told to get over the thoughts and I should just put them out of my mind. I have a wonderful 19 year marriage, why are these thoughts jumping into my head. Gotta be something else triggering them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
midlife crisis, not enough attention from spouse, feelings of a possible afair, etc, etc, etc, why, why, why????

They just aren't comming in because the sky was a certain color of blue today. There's gotta be something else at the root of the problem for littleman and myself. I'd also bet that we aren't alone. I lurk more than I post, and in the past year I've seen a number of posts here from men lementing their wives past. You can feel the anguish they are going through. I wonder how many this truly affects? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I don't Billh...
don't discount the brain ability to be thinking and functioning on many many different levels...
and that thoughts get through the filters plenty of times that may not really hold that much weight....

until we start to feed in to them..

if you dig around ..and really find no gross dissatisfaction with your spouses present behavior...
what value is there in perseverating on something that in some ways ...isn't anything you can do anything about..
and why couldnt have just been a though that blipped through...once..and you grabbed on to it..
subconsciously
it's not even asked challengingly..from me
but asked in a sincere please explain what good will come of it tone...

You can feel the anguish they are going through.
for what reason would one put themselves through this...
and why would it be anguish..

I hope that when Mr. Ark lived with the person he did...that he treated her well and respectful...just as he does me....
and i know how charming I think he is....
so I'm sure she must of like him as well...

and I bet he'd answer anything I asked him as well...but I don't see any value in it for me...but nor do I see any damage in it for me either...it has no value or meaning to my today....

and i don't think I would ask him..cause I wouldn't want to make him feel uncomfortable...

honest billh...
I don't understand this well..
It might be a guy thing...

I don't belittle the feeling....or thoughts that may occur..

but dr. phil is famous for thinking along the lines that humans rarely do much without some type of personal gain...be it negative or positive...

ark

yep, gotta be a guy thing. I don't see alot of women lementing that their husbands weren't virgins or locked in a room with no experience until they met them.

Here's an intereseing thing I thought of with Littlemans post.

He's lemented his wife may have been fairly intamate with other men.
I am/have been tormented by the fact that my wife had one other partner before me.
I've see other posts that someones wife had 2 or 3 other partners.

I wonder if my wife was a virgin, would I be tormented by some other visual of her kissing, hugging, other sexual activity???? Hmmmmmm???

Kinda goes to what you are saying, "why, what good does it do"?

All I know is that it is there. I can't measure it, but I know it's real pain, and I'd bet it falls along the same lines as the pain of an afair. I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone here telling me that the pain couldn't be as excruciating, but since we can't measure emotional pain we'll never know. I know I went through it for about 4 or month 3 tiems in my marriage and it just rips you apart.

Thanks for the discussion ARK.

Littleman, I feel for you and I hope some of this helps. At least to know your not the only one dealing with this. Write more if you want to discuss this further.

You know would would have great insite on this??? "JUST LEARNING" I'd love to have his input on this subject and read input from him!!!!!!

JL where are you??????

I would love to hear some insight into this dilemma the two of you are having also.

I find this terribly interesting because it is so beyond my understanding why this would be so upsetting.

I am not poking fun, nor am I minimalizing the pain this is causing both of you guys, but I am like Ark, for the life of me I don't get it.

I have wondered about the pasts of men I have loved (yes plural, as I have never been married but have been in a few committed relationships) but it has never really caused me more than a moments curiosity. And I don't think they were too concerned about my past either.

I think this is a fascinating discussion into your minds. As painful as it is for you, it would interesting to find what the root of it is.


Are you just looking for reasons to think less of your wives, because if they have spent most of their lives with you, they must be lacking somehow?

Do you think that you may not be as wonderful as a previous experience may have been for her, even if it was in another lifetime?

Are you focusing on this because something else is going on that you cannot look at?

I don't know, but interesting discussion for sure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BillH:
[QB] yep, gotta be a guy thing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the only thing I really want to comment on. (Besides I agree with weaver's question--for whatever reason, I don't feel I've ever been the "stereotypical guy". Well, that is until recently. "*Steretypical*", not typical.)

Yes, it most certainly is a guy thing. Any relationship I was in it "bothered" me. And even when I was out of the relationship, it still did to some extent. (This guy is a toad compared to me; what does he have that I didn't; then it goes into a sexual confrontation with myself.) Normal? Absolutely. However, after being married for 11 years (in my case) those feelings of wondering and to a certain point, jealousy, are no more. (I think they were amplified with my W having two sons as well.) BUt, I couldn't tell you why in the world they would be resurfacing now! Not to say, "Get over it," that would be dismissing your feelings, but why in the world would *these* feelings besurfacing? I would think (even more so being a member of MB) that there would be other contributing issues to these feelings.

I hope the both of you can work them through! Best wishes.

My wife had been with one man before I met her. She lost her virginity in a ONS when she 15 with an older man. I met her when she was 17. Although, it doesn't really bother me what she did before I met her, sometimes this fact still upsets me. I think in my case it has to do with me putting my wife on a pedestal, an not bearing the thought of somebody using her for one night as if she was cheap and worthless. On the other hand I have had plenty of ONS's with women and never felt as if I was treating them as cheap and worthless. Perhaps what bothers me the most is that she was so young and being taken advantage of by an older man who was travelling through town and just looking for a night of fun. Anyway I understand your feelings littleman, and hope you manage to put these fears/insecurities/ doubts behind you and concentrate and making sure your great marriage is not affected by these issues.

BillH & LittleMan,
I'm a guy, Yes I'm proned to all of the same frailties, ego, need for admiration, need for my own personal cheering section...my wife. Guys need that sort of thing, to think they are the BEST MAN. It's hard to come to grips with the fact, YES, there was life before you, BUT hear this fellows, gents and brethren...if you continue down this road of thinking and if it begins to manifet itself in your M as tension, lack of approval, jealousy and a degree of separation you run the risk of experiencing a much more horrifying vision than imagining your W with some other guy before meeting you:
The risk of her being with another guy after you!

Been there, been through it, got the t-shirt, the poster and that darn green stamp on my wrist.

Chin up gentleman.

If I were you, and I have been at least in the same frame of mind as you at one point or another, please try to focus on the fact...
She's yours NOW! She doesn't have to be you know? She is not property. She chose you! She loves you!!!

You can sift thru what triggered this and spend money seeing therapist to unravel the meanderings of the psyche or you can choose to focus on making some happy new memories with your beautiful wives.

I hope I don't come actoss flippant. I understand this is a serious issue to YOU, but I wanted to point out how darn lucky you are to be talking in the past tense about other men being with your wives. The sad fact is, for many of us....that cruel mental picture AINT so far in the past...OKAY!

BREAK, go kiss your wife and buy a cheeseburger from that fast food joint Bill was talking about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

My WW and I only had each other as partners until she had this A. It rips me up. I think I can only get over it if she truly regrets it after a while, but if she is like the girl example at the start of SAA, I can't get over that. Not unless God 180's my mind.

I wouldn't worry about what happened pre-meeting I don't think, unless WW lied about it to me.

Be at ease, mate. UR spouse loves you and has been faithful to you since she met U. That makes you better off than most of us here .....

Sooo
some guys...think and ponder pre-marriage activity of their spouses...

sooo
how do they view their own activity with pre marital partners...

do some guys see the women they "got busy" with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> to what ever level prior to exclusiveness as respectful encounters...or do they feel these women did something "wrong"....and not wife material because of those acts in their eyes....

Or is it only their wives activity that is negative...?


just trying to understand.....

and bobpure...sorry for the pain of this discussion to you.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
how do they view their own activity with pre marital partners...

do some guys see the women they "got busy" with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> to what ever level prior to exclusiveness as respectful encounters...or do they feel these women did something "wrong</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ark!! my MB sensai! (May I call you "Mrs. Miyarki"?!?!?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

For *me*, at first, absolutely a double-standard. Until logic kicks in.

We (W & I) have both had sexual partners before "us". Before W, I think it did bother me that my mates (all but one) had partners before me. With my W, the same. However, there was no getting around the fact of the "mystery" about it--she had two sons. I didn't have "time" to think about things like that. I wanted us to work. I was naturally (I guess, the "guy thing") curious about pre-me--and it was sort of self-inflicting wounds. Like the devastating car accident you drive past on the expressway: you want to look; you don't want to look. For me, what could I take from that knowledge of the past. Not, I wish that were me.

"Wrong"? No. But it does take some "working through" to get over the fact I was not the only one to share one of the most beautiful pysical expressions of love with my W. No. Not wrong. But the male psyche (mine, at least) said, "It wasn't me!" I got over it, though. Don't know how. Maybe like I said, didn't have time to. Can't change what's happened--only learn and grow from it. No sense in spending wasted time trying to think about things that are simply not going to change. Acceptance.

I am happy now that I get to share this *NOW*. Now is the only thing that matters. Yes, the past shapes who we are; the future is something to look forward to. But you can neither change the past nor predict the future.


I think I went way of track--trying to write quickly as I start with my new IC today!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope this helps, ark--you've certainly helped many of us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I haven't see a reply from littleman for a bit, I hope he wasn't belittled about his feeling to the point of not wanting to discuss this issue. Once again, I'd like to acknowledge his feelings. Tell him it's not unusual to feel the way he is and to let us know if he has fugured anything out.

Here's a question I have that was facilitated by something Bob said. He said, "I wouldn't worry about what happened pre-meeting I don't think, unless WW lied about it to me." I would think all spouses feel pretty much this way in the logical sense. When you think deep down does it really matter if your spouse slept with someone before you. I'd say logically you'd say no!

However, What if you found out your spouse lied!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> What if it came out that your spouse participated in orgies with 3 or 4 people of the oposite sex and it happend 20 or 30 times. They would go on 2 or 3 day drinking benders and have sex with anyone that came around and multiple partners at the same time. Would it matter? I'd say if you were totally truthful, you would lose it with your spouse!!!!

But if you go back to your previous comments, you are saying the past is the past and it doesn't matter, and we should do our best to drop these thoughts.

My point is that everyone has a different tollerance for a spouses past and I'd bet it fluctuates depending on your present relationship or life events. Littleman's is just a very low tolerance at the present time.

What do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BillH:
<strong>
However, What if you found out your spouse lied!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> What if it came out that your spouse participated in orgies with 3 or 4 people of the oposite sex and it happend 20 or 30 times. They would go on 2 or 3 day drinking benders and have sex with anyone that came around and multiple partners at the same time. Would it matter? I'd say if you were totally truthful, you would lose it with your spouse!!!!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHEW!
If I stumbled into discovering my W had orgies with 3 or 4 guys and she did this 20 or 30 times how would I feel?

That's a hard question to ask because it hasn't happened. Who knows? I'd wonder WHY? My W would need to provide honest answers to my questions. I'd probably go thru a rough time coming to grips with it, but eventually I'd accept the fact that she's not that person anymore. In fact, I'd eventually accept that there's nothing she or I can do about the past and looking back would only be hurting US.

I do get your point about people having different perceptions of what's immoral and what isn't. I hope that we can all respect our spouses for the people they are today, not who they were years ago. The term "What have you done for me lately?" comes to mind. Spouses tend to put their mates on pedastals, but we are all imperfect humans and none of us ask for the pedastal. Men in particular tend to picture their W's as angelic, chaste and blah blah blah blah. W's are human too and we should allow them the right to make mistakes, learn from them and change.

I hope Littleman1 wasn't scared off by some of the responses here because he really needs to vent his concerns with others and not let it create division in his M.

Orgies with 3 guys, 20-30 times?
Sheesh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Pre me right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks BillH for the bad mental picture <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My W would never do that, she's an ANGEL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
and bobpure...sorry for the pain of this discussion to you....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely not ! Addressing uncomfortable stuff is gonna be the path for us boith for a long time. Stuff makes me think, it stings, I work it over, it adds to making everything better.And as Orchid 2x4ed me ages ago I am responsible for how I react to stuff, its not the stimulus' or the poster's fault !