Hello all. First off, let me say that I have been lurking here for quite some time. I wish I had found this site many years ago. My situation is complex just like everyone else's so I will summarize the best I can. I understand that there may be lots of questions I have to answer.

My story:

My wife and I have been married for 19 years. 3 children (D - 17, S -16, S - 9). Wife is 42 and I am 40 so we married young. The marriage has been very troubles - affairs (me - 1, her 2), lack of partnership, lack of communication, unfair fighting methods etc. I even filed for divorce during her last affair but seeing what this did to our children, we reconciled and made another attempt at the marriage. This was over 2 years ago. We attended counseling for a few months with very little progress (in my opinion) and decided to stop going as it was becoming uncomfortable for her mostly.

Here is my situation today: Since we reconciled I continue to have strong feelings of regret that it wasn't the right thing to do. I love my wife but it's not the type of love that a man should feel for his wife. We're more housemates than partners or lovers. I'm not attracted to her, there's little time spent together as everything revolves around the kids and I even feel used by her as I am responsible for 100% of our expenses. I am just going thru the motions and just tired of living like this. I'm very sure that I don't want to be married anymore and feel I need to get on with my life. What's stopping me is the financial aspects and guilt of doing this to the kids. I also feel guilty for not telling my wife how I really feel as she is content with us pretending that we have a good marriage. We're both conflict avoiders and have managed to sweep things under the rug and keep going on but I can't do it anymore. I just don't want to hurt her by telling her how I feel but I know I should be honest about it. I also feel selfish for wanting out in this way but it's just the way I feel and I can't change that.

I understand that this is a marriage building board but I really think it's too late for that. I just don't want to go thru the effort anymore after 20 years or so all this and no progress being made. There really is a love between us but it's based on the children. I really need more than that. I could really use some suggestions though. I have been trying to hold out until both of the older kids are 18 and off to college but I'm not sure I'll make it that long.

Should I go to counseling on my own to work these issues out and then talk to my wife or ???

Thanks for any help out there.

Why does your wife think that you are staying in this marriage? Does she think it's because of the kids? Does she think it's because you truly love her and want's this to work?

Welcome to MB,

U have some heavy heavy reading t/d. What you have outlined is similar to someone who has not dealt with the issues causing the M to fail in the past and present. Holding onto to this pattern is causing you to fail now as an H and father.

There is hope. The recovery road is not easy but not as hard as breaking up your family.

R U ready?

Here goes:

1. Read the concepts section above.
2. Read the book His Needs/Her Needs By Dr W. Harley.

3. Call Steve Harley for some phone counseling sessionns.

NOTE: Your negative attitude right now is holding you back. Remove that and then see the real issues. Expect that your W has similar issues and then some. Expecting that will help you prepare for your healing and her support. You each need to heal and support.

4. Both of you take then emotional needs questionnaire located in the concept section above.

There is no instant fix. You put effort into breaking down your M, you will need to put the same and then some to repair it.

Here's a question to ponder: Do you see yourself as a conflict avoider? If not score yourself 50 points because that in itself is a big hinderance to recovery.

All the best.
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by reluctant-h:
<strong>
We attended counseling for a few months with very little progress (in my opinion) and decided to stop going as it was becoming uncomfortable for her mostly.

Here is my situation today: Since we reconciled I continue to have strong feelings of regret that it wasn't the right thing to do. I love my wife but it's not the type of love that a man should feel for his wife. We're more housemates than partners or lovers. I'm not attracted to her, there's little time spent together as everything revolves around the kids and I even feel used by her as I am responsible for 100% of our expenses. I am just going thru the motions and just tired of living like this. I'm very sure that I don't want to be married anymore and feel I need to get on with my life....... I also feel selfish for wanting out in this way but it's just the way I feel and I can't change that..... There really is a love between us but it's based on the children. I really need more than that. I could really use some suggestions though. I have been trying to hold out until both of the older kids are 18 and off to college but I'm not sure I'll make it that long.or ???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me start off by saying that I am not an experiences MB. I certainly have had (and continue to have) issues in my own marriage. However, some of what you said really made me want to reply- particularly the part where you said that your feelings are just how you feel- and that you can't change them.

Let me say this. You have invested a lot of time and energy into your marriage- as has your wife. You did counseling- but not for very long. You and your wife aren't communicating, aren't doing things together- and are, in your own words, basically acting like you are housemates.

Of course you arent' going to have romantic feelings for her. You both have issues which have NOT been addressed in your marriage. Isn't it worth actually making a REAL effort to try to regain the love, attraction and passion that you have lost? I would suggest that both of you read the sections of this site discussing emotional needs, and working from there. I would also suggest considering a session with Dr. Harley.

My best wishes to you as you work through this. Boy, who knew how tough marriage would be when we signed up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RH:


There are some very compassionate and carring people on these boards, and are very willing to listen and help... Welcome.

Couple of questions....When did your affair end? Does your wife know you are struggling with these feelings?

reluctant-h I wouldn't be surprised if underneath your lack of feeling in love with your W is the huge issue of mistrust. Let's face it, she did not betray you one time, she betrayed you twice. What specifically is your W doing to avoid having a 3rd affair? From what you posted it seems that she is doing nothing but trying to forget it ever happened in the hopes that you will to. This seldom works and only sets up for a repeat performance in the future.

I suggest that you consider going back to marriage counseling even if she is reluctant to go. The time for divorce is when you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and state that you did everything in your power to save and rebuild the marriage but your W did not. Can you do that at this point?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> reluctant-h I wouldn't be surprised if underneath your lack of feeling in love with your W is the huge issue of mistrust. Let's face it, she did not betray you one time, she betrayed you twice. What specifically is your W doing to avoid having a 3rd affair? From what you posted it seems that she is doing nothing but trying to forget it ever happened in the hopes that you will to. This seldom works and only sets up for a repeat performance in the future.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM- I just wanted to point out that he had said that he also had an A although he didn't give a timeline.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. I will do some further reading on all this but it's hard for me to move my mind from where it's at.

Here's some answers to the questions:

Why does your wife think that you are staying in this marriage? She wants to believe that it's because I love her and want to be with her but I think that deep down she knows that it's for the sake of the kids. She has said in MC that she will NOT be the one to breakup the family.

When did your affair end?
It was a 2 1/2 year affair with a co-worker. EA and then PA. Ended over 10 years ago. She had an affair 4 years into our marriage and again about 3 years ago. I disclosed all details but she would not.

Does your wife know you are struggling with these feelings?
The issue has been discussed several times in the last 2 years during bad stretches but then quickly dismissed to avoid conflict. Right now it has been bothering me and she notices the change in my mood. I don't want to hurt her so I guess I am a coward for not telling her how I really feel. I won't talk about it with her because I don't know what to say.

reluctant-h,

I have to run off and pick up my kids from school, so I have two VERY quick thoughts for you:

Start here The State of Withdrawal in Marriage and read about the state of marriage that I think you're in. You may have been in Conflict for a while when your Taker demanded that your W meet your needs, but when she didn't and since you don't like Conflict, I think you fairly quickly moved right into Withdrawal. Keep reading!!

Next, I'd suggest some transparent honesty here. Transparent Honesty is when you allow your partner to see the real you, and the real you right now is VERY unhappy. She needs to know that you are so unhappy you are considering divorce just to escape the pain and sorrow you feel! Here's how you can be transparently honest in just a few sentences--use the format W.T.F.S. which stands for "When you__, I think__, I feel__, Soooo...I'd like to ask __." See?? When, Think, Feel, So? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It might sound something like this:

"When we continue on in this marriage pretending everything is okay when it is desperately NOT okay, I think this is irrational and illogical and it's unreasonable to continue like this; and I feel unloved, unwanted, and dead in my heart; so I am going to ask you to work with me using MarriageBuilder techniques to respark our romance and return passion between us."

Gotta run!! More later!!!


CJ

RH,

I was sitting here actually laughing while reading your posts. I was laughing because you have inadvertantly stepped into the VERY place you need to be.

First, let's review the bidding oK?

1. You have an A.

2. You W has two A's.

3. You draw up a truce agreement and she focus' on the kids.

4. You don't spend time together, and lead pretty separate lives.

5. You are about 40 and you feel that all you are is a meal ticket, right?

Buddy this stuff is designed JUST FOR YOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seriously, your feelings about this marriage the results that you have obtained so far are EXACTLY what you should have happened given what has happened.

So if you would like to have your W love you. If you would like to love your W. Stick with us and we will get you there.

I came here for reason #5 5 years ago, others come for reasons #1 or #2 or #3, but all of things you have said are pretty common and the results are predictable.

So what you need is a new perspective on this. You need to see the cause and effect, and you need to see that YOU can change the dynamics of the marriage and very likely your W will then change her responses to you.

So it is up to you. You can get rid of this W and find another with similar or different problems. You can end this marriage and hurt the kids. OR, you can change it and actually end up much happier.

It is your call. But, let me offer you some reading to do in the articles here. Read about what Harley's four rules for a good marriage. Read about the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. and then the bedrock of all of this the policy of "radical honesty".

You will learn that resentment is a killer for marriages and the POJA is there to help get rid of this and the "radical honesty" approach is the start.

There is a saying that you should consider </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Harley is a big proponent of negotiating everything in the marriage, the POJA. Why? He feels that if a spouse "sacrifices" for the marriage without the approval and support of the other spouse it will lead to resentment and destroy the marriage.

So read these articles and then move to the concept of NEEDS and how to meet them. This is more fully explained in his book, His Needs Her Needs. Understand what love busters are and how they undermine a marriage.

RH this is simple stuff but it is powerful. It is also NOT easy to do. But, I would suggest that spending a few weeks reading here, the cost of a book or two, and perhaps a month or two of effort is ALOT CHEAPER THAN A DIVORCE. Give it a try and see if you don't see the difference in how you see your W and how to approach her about this stuff.

Once you understand it even counseling makes more sense and can be useful.

So invest a little here, read the posts, read the articles, get the books, I know they are at Barnes and Noble or can be ordered, and see if you can save your marriage, your childrens lives, and a few thousand bucks as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Believe me as you read and ask questions you will see that there is hope and YOU can change your perspective and even your W's view of you. It can be done, it has been done, and it is being done around here all of the time.

Hang in there and do the reading.

God Bless,

JL

CJ and JL, thanks for all the info. You are really on target with your read of the situation. I am going to take some time and read all of the materials referenced here. Might take a couple weeks. I'll be back as needed. I have alot to think about.

Thanks all!

Good luck!

Happy reading!

And remember.... this is YOUR FAMILY you are fighting for!

Pep