Been trying to do Plan A for about 6 weeks. Every two weeks I have a setback. Something happens and I explode and go off on all the same old issues and same old problems.

Realistically, I'm not sure if Plan A will even work. She is still talking to the guy every monring on the way to work and every evening on the way home.

I can't seem to do anything right and she seems to look for anything I do to get annoyed. If I talk about anything, then I'm trying too hard. If I give her some space, then we are not dealing with any hard issues.

I want to be able to talk to her about my thoughts without attacking her. She can't trust me to listen to her, and I can't trust her as she is still with him.

Running out of faith & hope. Do I keep this up for another few months to see what happens?

Do I start discussing with her the things that are difficult for me and that are hurting me. Or do I continue with Plan A and stay positive?

Or do I give her space?

Help!

<small>[ September 24, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: TDVA ]</small>

You are the one who needs to stop the lovebusting.
What she does is irrelevant to your lovebusting.

Been trying to do Plan A for about 6 weeks. Every two weeks I have a setback. Something happens and I explode and go off on all the same old issues and same old problems.
Then STOP doing it!

When you say you don’t think Plan A will work, does this mean you will not stop your lovebusting?

If I talk about anything, then I'm trying too hard. If I give her some space, then we are not dealing with any hard issues.
She’s having an affair. You are not going to deal with any hard issues until the affair is over.

She can't trust me to listen to her
Why not? You’re her husband. Part of Plan A is YOU need to learn to show her that she can open up to you without you attacking her.

Do I keep this up for another few months to see what happens?
Don’t keep up what you are doing. You need to perfect your Plan A attitude.

You should be trying to negotiate an end to the affair. Do this in a non-confrontational way. Use the POJA as best you can.

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

thanks for the advice. I know I need to work at it.

It is so hard when I get very little in return. I know my wife still cares about me and thinks I'm a good person. She just doesn't think she loves me anymore and doesn't think she can ever get it back.

Hard when I can't even kiss her goodbye in the morning or kiss her good night. Very difficult. Also hard when I know she is on the phone with him 10 minutes after she walks out the door.

TDVA, no one said that affairs were easy, they are not. But that is what you signed on for when you decided to stay and try to work it out. In the meantime, are you doing everything in your power to END this affair, such as EXPOSING it to all key people?

That is often the most effective way to hasten the end of an affair. And she will not respond to most of your efforts until the affair ends. That is the whole point of Plan A, to end the affair.

TDVA...Bumped you something from ARK (Plan A tips and musings....get grounded here). Not sure if you've read it, but it sure helped me. I still read it about three times a week.......LS

No, I have not tried exposing it to all our family and friends. I told her sister and my brother and that's all. And of couse she was upset I talked to them.

I did that when she had an affair 4 years ago and I think she thinks that was not the right way to do it. Granted, she ended up staying with me, but I think she thinks I was weak to involve all our families.

I'm just not sure as I think if I expose her, she thinks of that as me being weak and not working at it with her. She thinks I'm running to all of our families for them to be on my side and turn them against her.

I know she knows it is wrong and feels guilty. She also justifies it by saying she was never really in love with me. I'm just not sure if exposing it will help or hurt. If we separate, I will have no problem explaining to anyone why we are separating. I will be honest if people ask.

TDVA

Our stories sound so familar. my kids are almost the same ages and this is my ww 2nd A. I am trying to plan A myself and have found it very difficult. I have gotten good feedback from ARK^^ and others here.

I am in the same exact boat. WW contiues to contact OM via TM. He then calls my house and blocks his num. He is a friend of my cousins and i use my cousin for insight and information.

WW gets up in the middle of the night to tm him as well. I feel i am enabling it by not disconnecting the TM. if I do she will just find another way. We both are in counseling but not together but we do go to the same counseler.

She reels me in and says what i want to hear then jumps back to OM. I want her to leave so that she faces reality and deals with the issue but others here tell me to contiue with plan A and 180's.

If it helps knowing that there is someone else out there in the same boat then HERE I AM.

Just a husband,

Yes, it is scary. Sounds like we are on similar paths. I am just sorry I didn't find this site 4 years ago. We recoverd the first time, but it was really a house of cards, ready to crumble again.

Now I understand my wife's needs and that I was not meeting them. I also understand my own needs a little better.

Ark's posting really helps. I just read it. It is so hard to do a Plan A and expect nothing in return. To stay happy even though I know she is still with him.

She wants the kids, wants me to move out, etc. But she is awful at dealing with conflict. She wants me to give up and just agree to mediation with her. However, I can't do that right now.

It is so hard, but I must keep all my conversations happy and focus on the family. The only problem with that is my wife then thinks I'm also avoiding conflict because I won't address the tough issues of our relationship.

I have to remember there are two steps. One is to rebuild the love in our house and in our relationship. The second is to focus on fixing the problems in how we handle conflict and difficult issues.

I know I have made some progress as she had been more positive to me and had been doing more reading. But then I blow up again and we start all over. SHe goes numb and shuts down.

The OM is divorced and has already been through this, so I know he is "helping" her and providing his recommendations. I know my wife loves our kids and family and does not want to hurt them. That's why I think I still have a chance to make this work.

TDVA

Om in my situation is also D from 2 women and cant aford to live on his own. He has anger issues and several court orders against him. He is definitly filling my ww head with $hit. He thinks that just cause he got taken to the cleaners (twice) that he can now get his revenge on the world by doing it to me.

He thinks he has nothing to loose and he is so wrong.

My ww has doenst deal with conflict as well and does nothing on her own. Her father is moving away and her mother recently passed. Two years ago we also lost a daughter. All of these issues are issues that she is running from. She is running to OM. She is taking OM and placing him as a father figure as well as a lover.

i just feel like im up against the world.

Just to update.

Wife found out I had left messages for a friend at work to talk to her. Said I was trying to "embarass her".

Anyway, she wants to talk mediation document and separation. Told her I'm not ready to do that.

So what do I do? How do I make her feel loved when she wants no part of me? How do I avoid separation? Or is separation the only way she'll appreciate what she had?

sounds like you r having another setback...So am i...Take it in stride...pick yourself up and proceed with plan A.

It took me all day to figure this one out.

Stop saying i love you or stop trying to show it and be her friend.

im going to take my own advice as well

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It is so hard when I get very little in return. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have said before and I'll say it again - Plan A i a heroes gig. It is absolutely selfless, absolutely counter-intuitive.Anyone can do hard stuff if they get something back right away.

I had eight weeks of getting absolutely NOTHING from my WW than hatred, vitriol, spite, deliberate hurt, hurting the kids...unbelievable fog. You won't get anything back while there is contact with OP, and not properly while the A is active.

Plan A doesn't dynamically break the affair, it DOES allow you to place yourself in a position where you are a credible alternative to the A if it enters your WS mind to stop it.

I will tell you from my own personal experience you are wasting your strength doing plan A if the OPs family doesn't know.

Don't expose as gossip, expose to people who have an emotional stake in OMs pre-a life if there are any.

Really read, and re-read plan a in SAA. It reads differently when you STUDY it.

And you are doing something, but not plan a-ing if you keep on lashing out verbally at her.

No,its not fair what shes doing, yes you're entirely within your rights to let her know how darn unreasonable she's being, and Plan A is absolutely not the opportunity to exercise that right. As K says here " you can be right or you can be married" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And you CAN do this. Even I managed it and I'm English ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am even POJAing like a pro now with WW, and she's turning around slowly. You just train yourself to a set of behaviours. And it works after a while.

Wise heads can comment and advise, I will limit my comments to wishing you luck, and to tell you that you must expect ABSOLUTELY NOTHING back from your WW in plan a. Just enjoy it when/if you DO get something back.

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

well said

you guys are right and very helpful.

When I realize I should expect nothing, it is much easier to swallow and understand.

All I'm going to do is be the best dad and best husband I can be. Treat my wife as a friend and expect nothing in return. Now I see the light. I can't ask for anything in return. That is not the point of Plan A.

My only question is since I've had so many setbacks, can I still continue with Plan A. I realize now my Plan A was not realistic and I was not implementing it properly.

So do I start my 6 month clock over from now?

I've got to stop telling my wife what I'm doing and why. Just do what I can.

And I know I can't control whether she calls or sees him.

you cant change what you did in the past. you can only control your plan A for today. MAke you plan A today work for you in the right way. As was told to me, make plan a about the kids and yourself. invite her to join in activities with the you and kids but dont expect her to join. As a matter of fact count on her not joining and if she does then welcome her with smiles.

Its hard i know....im trying every day. i am going throught the same thing here and working on it every day.

Sometimes my lighthouse is bright and sometimes its dimm but its always on in one way or another.

I knew you'd be out there.

So since we are in the same boat. Do you just avoid discussions about separate and mediation and custody?

I don't plan on bringing anything up unless she does.

The reason I'm struggling is one of our problems had been discussing and dealing with difficult issues. We have a tendancy to avoid conflict. Obviously this is the biggest.

So my plan right now is to focus on just rebuilding the feeling of love. I don't think I can or we can address any real issues or fix anything until I have that established and my wife then decides there is enough there to work on the problems.

Correct?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
rebuilding the feeling of love </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your feelings are not helpful in plan a TDVA. My WW got me so low I actually hated her on several occasions/ Teh Harleys say that 'love feelings' are dependent upon love bank deposits. If your WW is like mine has been for months you won't get a d@mn dime invested by her.

It helped at the dark times for me to remember my pre A W, and the things I loved about her. That served as a template to show me the crookedness of her fog behaviour.

Mechanise your plan A, detach from it emotionally ( you can do this) and do it by rote regardless of your WWS mood.

This gets YOU into a consistently positive state of mind, and also consistently confounds your WW by you being a beacon of calm when you deserve to be a crazy, shouting, frothing thing.

Behaving calmly and to a plan in a crisis actually delivered a calmness to me too. Allowed me to laugh at some of the worst fog excesses, allowed me to see WWs abuse of my kids as a symptom of temporary mental illness, that neede fixing by taking the kids out to do fun rather than standing on her neck till she turned blue, which I felt like ! (Joke, Joke !)

Plan A is about YOU not HER. Read up well and start NOW. Read about reverse babble, and have a little fun - you're allowed to. And one day, sooner as in our case or later as in other cases your WW fan will switch on and the fog will blow away for a while. Then you can start to make progress and look for that lovin' feeling again.

Be at ease TDVA, you can do this. heck even I could do this ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{TDVA}}}}

Bob Pure, et al,

Just to give you an update on my situation. Wife says it is just a matter of time. She wants out. I'm driving her farther away. Claims I am "assuming" there is an affair.

Hmmm. voice mails talking about spending their life together and how good their kisses are. Phone records that she calls him every morning and every evening.

He gave her a gift which I found in her purse. I have conveniently "lost" it for her.

Based upon Bob's good saturday and subsequent Sunday post I often wonder...

Just like for the WS is the BS also a victim of assuming the best? The WS likes the A because it is the unknown, so all the BS does is assume the best.

I think the BS is the same way. If you are lucky enough to be moving toward a recovery, you want the WS back, but then you assume the recovery will go in the right direction. It is hard. Part of me is scared my WS will come back and we will still fail.

I still have a long way to go. BS says she wants no part of me, but then we all go to her soccer game together and she naps on the couch while I watch football. Hmmm..

Thoughts?

I'm continuing with Plan A with no expectations or emotions from WS's behavior.

okay all you expert Plan As. I need help.

My WW continues to deny anything going on with OM. Says that is separate from our difficulties.

I've been doing Plan A since August, but have had a couple of LB sessions mixed in. Thanks to the advice of Ark, BobPure, JustaHusband, and many others, I've now realized I need to do Plan A with no expectations from WW. I've seen progress from JustaHusband, lostsailor and others, so Plan A gives me hope.

So here is my dilema. I have just got her new cell phone bill. WW does not know I have access to it. I see she is calling OM all the time. On the way to work, way home, lunch, weekends, etc. They talked for almost 1000 minutes last month. Also I have no idea how often she sees him.

Do I just continue in Plan A knowing what I know? Do I bring up the stuff I found out that WW doesn't know about? Seems my Plan A is making it easier for her to be comfortable at home and engage with OM outside of the house.

HELP

Yep, stick to Plan A. Don't expect any results, and expect the affair to continue. I would remain quiet about the cell phone bill. You know she is talking to him, and it will cause you to love bust. You need to avoid that.

Plan A often does not end the affair. Then it is time for Plan B. But it is too early for you. You need to do a solid Plan A first.

So go exercise, or get a hobby and keep busy. It is very difficult, but you can do this.