He doesn't think of this!?

"According to the Vedic law, however, there is no such thing as divorce laws, and a woman must be trained to be submissive to the will of her husband. Westerners contend that this is a slave mentality for the wife, but factually it is not; it is the tactic by which a woman can conquer the heart of her husband, however irritable or cruel he may be."

http://www.ghq.org/articles/trained_to_submit.htm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

http://www.ghq.org/articles/divorce1.htm


Talking of reverse babble responses... use this cite, just instead 'wife' use 'husband' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tree,

I just read an awesome post that you should copy and sent to your WH. It might roll off his slimey back or it might just blow away some of the fog and touch his heart. His heart...it's still there. You have to BELIEVE. Anyway, here is the link, but don't just send the link, copy the letter and email it.

WH letter

Good luck!
2scared

Orchid, I laughed till tears at your babble reply. You should write a book I swear....
dearest Tree, I have never ever read such a bunch of stream of UN-consciousness, flagrant horsesh1t in my life.

I will add nothing to teh wonderful dissections my friends have already done on here.I will say only that I know you love him, but he needs a cattle prod attack to make him come to.

Unbelievable shower of sh1te.

If you ever wanted ANY actual genuine proof that you WH is absolutely brim-full of Sh.. sorry FOG, and you can utterly disregard everything he says, this mail is it.

Laugh at it tree, its funnier than my 'compendium of WWs fog babble' from a month ago.

You REALLy have to consider him temporarily insane, 'cos he is.

{{{{{treereich}}}}}

Thanks for all the responses!
I woke up feeling so alone this morning. I just can't believe that this is my life now. I love being married and having a family. I just can't believe that I'm having to deal with all of this crap in my life. I always look forward to the holidays and now I'm just dreading them.
My heart aches for my H love. I just don't see him coming out of the fog any time soon. If he does will I still want him? I'm just so lost!

The book that he recommended that I read is called...
"Spiritual Divorce"...divorce as a catalyst for an extrodinary life...by Debbie Ford.

He keeps telling me that marriage is just a contract and a piece of paper. He says we can still love each other and be friends just not married. Is he crazy???? He just wants a reason to continue his A!

I'm truly losing hope!!!!

Treereich, a gentle 2X4.

I know you are hurting. You're confused, angry, disappointed. you have a hard time seeing the future.

You said in another thread that you were in Plan B. You posted your letter to Chris after he requested it. Why are you still embroiled in the chaos?

I honestly have not seen where you've done a Plan A or a Plan B. You've also talked of going on Anti-D's, but I've not seen an update on that. I still see a very panicked woman who has no clear stategy to either try and rebuild her marriage OR move on if the marriage is not meant to be saved.

Treereich, aside from just waiting to see what your H's next move is, what are YOU doing? Nothing ever changes if nothing ever changes!

Please feel free to dispute anything I've said here because I do not like giving a 2X4 when I've misread a situation or haven't seen the complete story. I'd like to see you on a path towards healing regardless of what happens in your M.

Hi Maddyk...
Yes, I've been in plan B....I guess I broke that by answering his email huh? The only reason I did was because he was asking some things about bills and our son. Also..I did get some Anti-D's. They are making me sleepy!!! I guess that will go away in time.

I never really had the chance to do plan A....H moved out and didn't want to talk to me. I do feel paniky and don't know what to do. I have just had so much going on in my life and I guess I really feel out of control right now. My son is the only thing keeping me sain.

Treereich, never mind responding to his email, you should not even be reading it! You should have an intermediary doing this for you. I was reading on save your marriage central that along with their phone counseling, they have an email service. When partners email each other it first goes through the intermediary..and things that are too emotional get edited it out and then forwarded onto the intended recipient. I think you need someone in your life to do this for you. (SYMC i believe only offers this as part of their counseling..I do not believe they offer it separately).

Also...you're somehow aware of what your husband is or isn't saying about you when he talks to your son. You really need to remove yourself and not know these things. If you feel that the phone calls need to be monitored to ensure your son is not being further traumatized, then ask a friend to sit in and listen.

Your son is very young. I absolutely do believe that you should have him in your mind as your anchor and the thing that keeps you going. BUT..from what I'm reading you are also leaning on him for emotional support. I don't feel that this is healthy for either of you. Of course he uplifts you and this is right..it's the way it should be. But I just fear that you're putting this responsibility on him and that's not fair. I don't think you should be hiding what you feel from him, but I also think you need to let him know that you will BOTH be okay no matter what happens. I do not feel that this is the picture you're presenting to him. I am taking this only from what I've read in your posts and it could be that in your venting you exagerrate things and I can understand that.

Plan B is for YOU, Treereich, not your husband. You are allowing yourself to let him push your buttons and lead you further and further into confusion. You're waiting on him for *something* and I'm not sure what that is. I know your confusion..we all feel it ourselves at one time or another, if not all the time! I just worry for you that you are neither helping your marriage by your current mode of operation, and neither are you helping yourself. Please understand that I am just worried for you.

You're EXTREMELY lucky that you've got friends and family to lean on. Please don't underestimate their value!! Use them as much as you need to. It's time to work on YOU and let your husband continue on his current destructive path. Plan B WILL work, one way or the other...and if your husband does not change his course, then his destruction will only affect you if you let it. Please try to remember that. You're allowing this to happen to you.

I looked the book up on Amazon.com and here is their editorial review. Treereich, I can't believe he is using this book to justify his actions. Ugh. Sorry, I read alot but don't post too often.

Book Description


Divorce rocks the very foundation of our beings, leaving us feeling lonely, flawed, enraged, undesirable, hopeless, and empty. In Spiritual Divorce, bestselling author and workshop leader Debbie Ford reveals how this devastation can be transformed into a profoundly enlightening experience. This empowering guide shows how the collapse of a marriage is, at root, a spiritual wake-up call, an opportunity to liberate ourselves and reclaim our lives. The end of a relationship -- no matter who ends it -- is a damaging moment. Ford offers a clear program for turning ruin into renewal.

Ford provides life-changing tools and exercises as she walks you through her plan for self-discovery. She shares her own powerful story of divorce, weaving it together with inspiring real-life personal accounts to illustrate seven spiritual laws for healing. Understanding and practicing these basic laws -- acceptance, surrender, divine guidance, responsibility, choice, forgiveness, and creation -- will help you break through your fears, dissolve your pain, and comprehend the deeper meaning of events in your life.

The turmoil of divorce is a priceless opportunity to explore your inner world and accept your entire self. Offering gentle instruction and wisdom from many faiths and traditions, Ford demonstrates how utilizing the seven spiritual laws for healing will enable you to make peace with your past, purge toxic emotions, and be liberated from old behavior patterns. Living fully in the present will reconnect you to your divine nature, making new love possible.

The end of your marriage can be the first step to spiritual transformation. Learn to use your divorce -- don't let it use you! Spiritual Divorce can help you reclaim your personal power, your joy, and the freedom to create the life of your dreams.


K

BS-me 43
WS-him 40
DS 21
DD 11
DS2 6

2nd A DDay 3-3-04
false recovery

D-DAy 2 6-29=04
NC as of 8-04

in recovery

Hi Tree......the anti-d's make me sleepy too. I take mine around 8 or 8:30pm every nite. By the time bed time comes, it most definetly helps me fall asleep which you want right?

take care
A/C0810

Thank you!

Maddyk....I may sound like I'm leaning on my son for emotional support but really I do tell him we will both be ok and I try to keep things happy and as normal as possible for him. I only say good things to him about his dad and when he talks to him on the phne I don't ask anything. My son comes to me on his own and tells me things that his father has said. I guess it bothers him. I really do try and be strong for my son.

You are right about the emails. I should just not read them. If he needs to address something about finances I should have him contact a friend and let her tell me. I am just so hurt. I guess I need to move on with my life and work on me. It's just really hard when we've been together for so long. He's always been in my life.

I'm not sure what to think of this "spiritual divorce" he's talking about. I don't want a divorce but he keeps pushing it so if that's what he wants I'll let him file. He keeps telling me he can't afford an attorney right now. I guess maybe this is a good thing. Maybe in time he will wake up from the fog he's in. It may be too late but maybe by then I will be able to handle thngs better.

Thank you to all of your for your advice!!!! I really do appreciate it!!

Treereich, I see a couple of things you could be doing but you're the only one who can decide what is too painful for you.

Okay, you're in Plan B. Is this where you *feel* you should be? I do see you wanting to withdraw from your husband--I mean, it couldn't happen quick enough, right? But it seems like you're also ambivalent about it. Maybe you feel cheated out of being able to do a really good Plan A and so felt you had to go to Plan B? I'm not stating..just kind of asking.

If you do feel that you need to speak with your husband or reply to emails or whatever...I do feel that Orchid's reverse-babble will help you immensely. Your H is pushing for a divorce and you don't want one. The reverse-babble will help you to take control of the situation and I think that's a great thing. You feel out of control and that you have no say. Decide to take back control.

If you decide to do a real Plan B...go as dark as you possibly can.

If you feel that you'd like another chance at a Plan A (and you feel that you have the strength to do it and won't be hurt further by it)..then read up on the woman who did her Plan A by snail-mail. I *think* the thread had CarolH in the title so you could search for it. If you don't know what I'm talking about and have a hard time finding it, let me know and I'll try to dig it up myself.

As far as your son goes..I do understand where you're coming from. My son is older so I'm not sure what you can do about that. Maybe be as honest as a child can deal with..maybe saying it's a difficult time and sometimes people don't always know the right things to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TreeReich: I woke up feeling so alone this morning. I just can't believe that this is my life now. I love being married and having a family. I just can't believe that I'm having to deal with all of this crap in my life. I always look forward to the holidays and now I'm just dreading them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: U R not alone but understand how you can feel that way. Keep posting here and giving love to your son. It will subside. When it does, the other stages of grieving will take over. Aquaint yourself with them. It is vital you know what can be ahead for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TreeReich:My heart aches for my H love. I just don't see him coming out of the fog any time soon. If he does will I still want him? I'm just so lost!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Your heart will ache for your H, it should. Someone has stolen him and replaced him with an alien like creature (aka: WS). Let your WS know (when you are in a calmer spirit), that you want to see your H, not the WS but your real H. Tell him you have a message for your real H and if the WS can find him, you would like the opportunity to give him the message. Don't let the WS try to drag the message out of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TreeReich: The book that he recommended that I read is called...
"Spiritual Divorce"...divorce as a catalyst for an extrodinary life...by Debbie Ford

He keeps telling me that marriage is just a contract and a piece of paper. He says we can still love each other and be friends just not married. Is he crazy???? He just wants a reason to continue his A!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: The fog does tend to distort. See how dangerous it is? Aren't you glad you don't have fog on the brain?

BTW, try reverse babble on the 'piece of paper' crap.....

WS: 'marriage is just a contract and a piece of paper. We can still love each other and be friends just not married. '

BS: (you could respond via a 3rd party e-mail)Been thinking about what you said. 'marriage is just a contract and a piece of paper.' That's news to me and millions of other people. Most people I know think contracts are important pieces of paper worthy of commitment and honesty. One that affects their lifestyle.

While I can't guarantee to love you without commitment and I am not even sure about the 'friends' piece..... we both seem to agree that a piece of paper exists in a M, so please send more papers in the form of monthly checks (hand him the separation agreement).

It is just a piece of paper (or several). Providing you have more paper to back it up ($$ in the bank), I can spin those papers into coins/cash to pay for non-paper items (re: bills, house, education, insurance, lifestyle for family, etc.). Let me know when the paper gets a bit heavy or thick or if you want to give more papers. I believe that different papers can impact one's lifestyle, so please make sure you don't send the bad papers to me (aka: divorce paperwork), ok? I mean after all paper just doesn't seem like a big deal to you, but it does to me.

Thanks for your accomodation.
Love,
Your Wife.

************************

I like the recommendation of a 3rd party e-mail or phone contact. I recommend a guy instead of another woman. That c/b a tough call but he may open up info to a trustworthy guy. It would have to be a strong character person one you are both comfortable with and one who is loyal to your side.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TreeReich: I'm truly losing hope!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Don't lose hope. It ain't gone yet. Just very lost in the fog.

BTW, you are doing good with your son. Keep the lines of commuication open with him. Even at a young age, children know and want reassurance while also wanting know that they can in some small way help their remaining parent. You'd be surprised what can come out of the mouth of our little ones.

take care,
L.

Thanks Maddyk and Orchid!

I don't think I can do plan A. I get to hurt hearing all of his crap. I think Plan B will help me. I guess I need to go dark. I will do my best! It's really hard when we have a young son. I can do it though!

I like your responses Orchid.
I have a severe headache right now so I will try to write back later on.
I need a vacation!!!!!