Curious to know how much fear played into things for you. Let me get more specific

-Were you afraid of really looking at your spouse's changes because you were AFRAID of really truly falling back in love and then having to make decisions that were more difficult than what you *thought* you were facing right then?
-Were you afraid to really see the pain you might have caused?
-Were you afraid that if you really looked at your marriage that you might not find a good reason to stay and didn't want to think that about life with your spouse?
-Were you afraid that though you felt committed to never cheat again, that since you did once, you might again?
-Were you afraid that if you started feeling good about your marriage again, that you were really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for things to return to "normal"?

I know that all of these things probably come into play at some time. My main number one question though is whether or not you afraid to fall back in love with your spouse again. When did these fears really hit home with you? Middle of Affair, ending? post? Do you ever still have them? At what point did you or did you not just decide to deal with your fear and take a chance (either for reconciliation or towards something else)? Or did you just let the fear go? Did you instead welcome the fear and use it as justification to keep on path away from your spouse?

Just curious really. I sometimes feel like my H is afraid of really falling completely back in love with me again and it's one thing (though only part of it) that's keeping him away. In fact I think he does things to deliberately move further away from me which seems to be pretty common. I don't feel like I can do anything about this, at least more than I'm already doing..but I would like to try and understand it better without actually asking my spouse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

bumping up

I think these are REALLY good questions!

Pep

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

My main number one question though is whether or not you afraid to fall back in love with your spouse again.

I am BUMPING again ... coz I really think this is an excellent question....

Maddy, I am not a FWS....

BUT here's what I suspect.... the FWS often feels ~they~ are no longer loveable because they see themselves through a glass darkly after an affair.

I suspect it has very little to do with the loveable qualities of the BS .... maybe 80% of this is a lack of self-love and a confused identity of the FWS for him/her self.... IMHO

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
<strong> Curious to know how much fear played into things for you. Let me get more specific
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Maddy,
I'll try to answer your questions, but remember my W was not following any of the MB principles during my A. I personally think a good plan B would have worked on me! BUT I don't believe this site was here then lol. GOSH was the internet even here 10 years ago? I will however try to explain what was going on in my head at the time. Plase remember, it's been quite sometime between the OLD FM and the NEW FM so somethings are a little fuzzy. In my case, OW wasn't some nice girl who accidentally got swept into an A with a M'd man. She was very much intent on taking me from my W, in fact I've had to block phone numbers, email addresses and I'm considering a restraining order as she continues to contact me every few months or so though I've requested NO CONTACT and my W can attest to this. Anyway, here goes:

-Were you afraid of really looking at your spouse's changes because you were AFRAID of really truly falling back in love and then having to make decisions that were more difficult than what you *thought* you were facing right then?

My W didn't really make changes, she was herself during my A and after. I remember knowing during the time of my A that I would always love my W. That's why I never wanted a D, though OW wanted me to file so badly. I didn't file for a D until during my separation and my W had a BF for quite sometime.

-Were you afraid to really see the pain you might have caused?

BIG TIME! YES! I wanted to believe I was still a good man so I did alot of things to try and make up for all the pain I was causing my W, OW and C's. The OW had C too, so I was in big conflict, I felt I was needed so many places and I didn't want to hurt everyone. I had created this huge mess of my life and no matter what I chose, somebody was going to get hurt unless I could juggle all of this madness.

-Were you afraid that if you really looked at your marriage that you might not find a good reason to stay and didn't want to think that about life with your spouse?

No, I knew I had all the reasons in the world to stay M'd. I wanted to get OW out of my life but somehow during our EA I felt responsible for being in her life. The OW was very dependent on me and I felt alot of guilt. After my EA turned into a PA I only became more sucked into feeling obligated to be in her life not to mention she was determined not to let me go. I remember telling her I was ending the R and she said, you can leave me but I'm never leaving you...you're the best thing that's ever happened to me! Imagine that, I was a cheating H and I was the best she ever had. At the time, her words made me feel admired, loved and truly needed. Now I know it was all desperate crap I wanted to believe that only enabled more pain and deception.

-Were you afraid that though you felt committed to never cheat again, that since you did once, you might again?

In a way. I felt that there were so many things in my M that needed fixing that it might not be repairable. This did give me the feeling that I had no real choice but to stay intangled with OW. I didn't want to be alone and OW didn't either..blah blah blah All fogese and cop outs!

-Were you afraid that if you started feeling good about your marriage again, that you were really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for things to return to "normal"?

My W didn't apply any MB techniques, this was 10 years ago but it lasted 4 years or so. I had to make a decision to change my life and work. It was my responsiblity, not so much my W's.


My main number one question though is whether or not you afraid to fall back in love with your spouse again. When did these fears really hit home with you? Middle of Affair, ending? post? Do you ever still have them? At what point did you or did you not just decide to deal with your fear and take a chance (either for reconciliation or towards something else)? Or did you just let the fear go? Did you instead welcome the fear and use it as justification to keep on path away from your spouse?

WOW this is complex:
I was afraid we COULDN'T fall back in love again, so that fear did enable my A. If you don't have the benefit of understanding what withdrawal is you can misinterpert it as signs that you need to be elsewhere.

There is fear throughout the A and after its over. First you fear that you've made a huge mistake that can end your M. Then you fear that your S would never forgive you. After the A I feared that I had ruined my M for nothing more than a friendship and an attraction to OW, a person that I didn't see myself having a life with or C with!

My justification was the fog of the good times with OW and also how much I meant to her. At the time I felt my W took me for granted. Now I realize so much more, but back then I feared my W and I had too many issues to rectify. After I detoxed from OW I realized that if I put the same energy into my M that I put into trying to meet OW needs and maintain my sleazy A, that my M was repairable.

I hope some more recent FWH's can chime in with answers to your questions.

I'm rooting for you Maddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Bump (so I don't forget tommorrow morning--er, later--to respond. Just back from hospital a little bit ago. Ugh!)

- </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> -Were you afraid that if you really looked at your marriage that you might not find a good reason to stay and didn't want to think that about life with your spouse?


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never intended to leave. I was a cake eater. I loved my H the entire time.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Were you afraid of really looking at your spouse's changes because you were AFRAID of really truly falling back in love and then having to make decisions that were more difficult than what you *thought* you were facing right then?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I never fell out of love with him. I was afraid of his changes, because they were so drastic. I almost felt he was fooling me, just to crush me, to get back at me. I felt his changes and gestures were lacking depth, and sincerity.

I have since realized, he is changed, because he loves me, and never wants this to happen again. It shook his world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


-Were you afraid that though you felt committed to never cheat again, that since you did once, you might again?
-Were you afraid that if you started feeling good about your marriage again, that you were really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for things to return to "normal"?

- </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> -Were you afraid that if you really looked at your marriage that you might not find a good reason to stay and didn't want to think that about life with your spouse?


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never intended to leave. I was a cake eater. I loved my H the entire time.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Were you afraid of really looking at your spouse's changes because you were AFRAID of really truly falling back in love and then having to make decisions that were more difficult than what you *thought* you were facing right then?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I never fell out of love with him. I was afraid of his changes, because they were so drastic. I almost felt he was fooling me, just to crush me, to get back at me. I felt his changes and gestures were lacking depth, and sincerity.

I have since realized, he is changed, because he loves me, and never wants this to happen again. It shook his world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> -Were you afraid to really see the pain you might have caused?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess you could say afraid of it, I'm not sure. I know I hate to see the look on my H's face, when he is being triggered by something, the raw pain, the pain I caused, it fills me with guilt and regret. I don't want to see OM's W face to face, she was a friend, I caused her a great amount of pain, I'm afraid to see that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> -Were you afraid that though you felt committed to never cheat again, that since you did once, you might again?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not fear that. My H and I are working hard on our M, and I am working hard on myself. I never want to walk this path again. I have no fear of returning. I will learn from this huge mistake, and change my life for the better, and my M will be better, and we will recover.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> -Were you afraid that if you started feeling good about your marriage again, that you were really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for things to return to "normal"?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do fear this. I am not back to feeling normal. It has been 6 months since DDAY. I love my H and he loves me, he has forgiven me.

I'm still recovering my inner self. I have disappointed so many people, I have hurt so many people, and I have compromised all of my beliefs and my moral standards.

We have changed many things in our lives. My children have been directly affect, and I have always taken pride in being a good Mama.

I'm hurt, I hurt myself, that is hard to understand, unless you have been where I have been, it is dark here, lonely, and very sad, and I have brought it all upon myself.

To rise up from this is very hard, especially like most WS, I come from a place where I felt no worth, and my self esteem was very low. I now know, I can not look to anybody else to make myself feel good about me.

I'm choosing to recover. I know there are many people who will always see me as the other woman, the wayward wife, the tramp down the road, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> this really brings a person down, but I no longer look to others to feel good about myself. Perfect timing for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When did I feel these things, after the A, post dday. Yes, I am still afraid. I don't feel very lovable, but my H is showing me otherwise. I am just now, ready to take a chance and give myself to him completely once again. I believe it was more about my healing, than my lack of feelings for him. I needed to heal my inner self before I could feel worthy of his love.

I hope I did your Q justice, and this didn't come out as just rambling nonsense. I wanted to give you some insight as to what I'm feeling as a FWS so maybe you could see it is not just fear, but inner healing. There is so much damage that one does to themselves in this process, I hope I explained it well enough.

I'm now exhausted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I hate thinking about what I did, what I was......

KY

{{{{KY}}}}

I will NEVER look at you as the "OW", "WW", "OP", those acronyms are ugly and conjure up bad mental images in my mind, which you could never be.

I think of how you must feel regarding your exfriend, whom you betrayed, and I wouldn't wish your feeling of guilt on anyone, because you are a kind person and I know how hard this must be for you to live with.

We all make bad decisions that hurt other people KY, but that we can learn from them and become better people is a great thing.

If I were you I would send silent blessings and prayers out to your exfriend everyday. Just to replace what you took away from her with good universal energy, and so that God will hear your prayers and bless her that much more.

I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful replies.

You know, I suspect that these thoughts would not enter a WSs mind, really, until they really started to think about a possible reconciliation.

I like to consider myself as a very empathetic person. It is both a strength and a weakness. I have this really strong need for understanding my husband's behavoir (don't we all?). It helps to see what you've all said, to picture him with the same type of reactions, and then to evaluate whether or not it seems to be true for him. With understanding comes the ability to stop taking things so personally. I have a really huge problem with the feeling of never being good enough. Lol, I KNOW that's crap but it's something that was kind of drummed into me from day one. Especially in an affair situation it's really hard to disassociate from that and hard to not apply the A to that "never good enough" feeling. Anyway, your responses help with that so I thank you.

I think I know my husband pretty well. Not as well as I thought I did or I don't feel that I'd be in my current situation. I feel that my husband *does* truly love me and I do not feel that he ever stopped. Even right after discovering his first affair I did not stop feeling that way.

He has said some things in the last few days that just make me think, "if you feel that way, then what the hell are you doing right now"? He cannot get past the guilt he feels from the hurt he has caused. We've tried to talk about certain things in our marriage and what I felt my contribution was and stuff like that. You know what he says? That he is the villain and always will be, that he holds all the blame, regardless of the things that I did. he said, ""i deserve punishment" i cant get rid of it. even now, i read how you know this is hard for me.. me.. i read that.. and want to laugh, like im the victim.. not through my eyes.. i will always be the villin here. "

You know, I don't think there is anything I can do about that. I've forgiven him but he cannot forgive himself. I believe that this will be the thing that keeps us from ever reconciling. Sure, that hurts to think about but I also can see that this is about *him*, not me. I think that he is afraid to really believe that anyone could love him enough to move past all this. I feel that it's like...well, if she loves me that much, and I let her love me that much..and she decides further down the line that I really *am* such a bad person and she leaves..where does that leave me? Again, this is all about him. It makes me sad because I'm not sure it's something that will change.

I'm not sure I'm making sense here and not sure this is all relevant to the original question. But yeah, I think he's really afraid and I jsut wanted an idea of where he's coming from and how much that fear may affect the possibility of us reconciling.

wow, some really good "meat" here to chew on. i think almost everyone involved in these situations have analyzed fear and changes to the extent that they have been asked about here. SH has pretty much validated my feelings which has been that H fears that my changes aren't real, fears being alone, now fears that he will hurt the OW, fears how things would be if it didn't work out between them and because of that he has to stick to his decision about divorcing me and being w/her.

hope more peeps will chime in, prayers to all, RR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:

-Were you afraid of really looking at your spouse's changes because you were AFRAID of really truly falling back in love and then having to make decisions that were more difficult than what you *thought* you were facing right then?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never "fell out of love" with W. I questioned it, but it really is not an issue. (And unfortunately, that's the question you really wanted answered.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
-Were you afraid to really see the pain you might have caused?
-Were you afraid that if you really looked at your marriage that you might not find a good reason to stay and didn't want to think that about life with your spouse?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am an avoider--a stuffer--by "nature." (Hence, me being a gambler as well.) I am back in IC, and as I explained to my W, I "fear" a lot of things to be dredged up about me that I have yet to pinpoint. Triggers. (I've posted this before, but I actually stopped seeing me IC last year (who was geared towards the gambling part of things) and stopped gambling completely--(and I just figured this out recently) simply because I didn't want to deal with the nerves he began touching regarding my younger years. So, I actually quit gambling to avoid some of the real issues! How's that for an avoider?)
In answer to your questions: yes (but it wouldn't prevent me from staying with my W and;
I'm afraid of antyhing when I have to jump into conflict--in my "real" life. (I am a referee and manager, and darn good ones. I have yet to transfer--or should I say--I am only beginning to learn how to transfer those "methods" into my "real" life, what counts, my family. Yes, there are things I am "afraid" to address. But, I'm beginning to. It's about balance and saying to myself, "This is sooooo worth it!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
-Were you afraid that though you felt committed to never cheat again, that since you did once, you might again?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. I'm sure it's in the back of both of our minds. But, now is the now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
-Were you afraid that if you started feeling good about your marriage again, that you were really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for things to return to "normal"?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely. But it has nothing to do with our R and our M. We've never had "normal." NEVER! And the other shoe is regarding our children. ('nother time, 'nother story.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
When did these fears really hit home with you? Middle of Affair, ending? post? Do you ever still have them? At what point did you or did you not just decide to deal with your fear and take a chance (either for reconciliation or towards something else)?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fear kicked in when the consciousness of it all came to fruition: that I should be communicating these things with my W!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Or did you just let the fear go?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fear in anything one is apprehensive to do is always there: It's all in how you handle it and, of course, in a M, what kind of communication and support system there is. (Why MB is *SOOOOOO* important!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In fact I think he does things to deliberately move further away from me which seems to be pretty common. I don't feel like I can do anything about this...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy, can I relate. (And not even necessarily relating to the A.) I hate that "C" word! "Conflict." (Shame on you all for thinking I would even be thinking of "that" word! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) Avoidance of pain. This is the one thing that I "fear" of finding out what the root of this trait of mine is.

Hope this helps, maddy!