I’ve noticed a trend here regarding welcoming newcomers. The message almost always reads the same: “Welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you have to be here, but read all you can and get on anti-depressants”

I always cringed at the anti-ds recommendation, but never thought it was my business to say anything. I don’t know of anyone here that is qualified to recommend the use of these meds. It reminds me of being at a party (when I was younger) and watching the group talk someone into trying acid or ‘shrooms for the first time. No one really knew how that person would react; sometimes it was good, sometimes it wasn’t. Anyone ever witness someone on a bad trip?

I would go on with life not sticking my nose in this topic, but a couple of things in the news caught my eye.

There is a young man, Christopher Pittman, who is up for murder-one and blames Zoloft. His story will be on "Good Morning America" Friday September, 10 around 7:30 AM.

I, for one, don’t think most people know what these drugs do to people in the long run. What if one is supposed to hurt or be depressed for some reason? God made a mistake in giving us emotions? I don’t even think most of the folks handing out the prescriptions know what this stuff does. FDA approval stamps get fast-tracked so the drug companies can start selling the product. Doctors start handing them out in order to keep lots of satisfied patients. The consumer public eats it up to realize instant relief of whatever ails them. I believe history is on my side of this argument. Anyone remember Fen-Phen? Aspartame?

I’m not saying people that are suicidaly depressed and really being helped by meds are wrong. For me to say they are all dangerous and wrong is just as silly as setting them out in a candy dish for the guests.

I also think that our kids are getting the message. “Bad drugs are BAD!, but good drugs are wonderful." This story reports that the use of LSD and ecstasy, once highly popular among adolescents and young adults, dropped. Meanwhile, illegal use of prescription drugs continued a recent rise.

I try to use a no drug use policy in my house. Somebody survived all kinds of things without drugs for us to be here…

MB elders: Share your experiences with us all. The benefits of previewed 20/20 hindsight are invaluable. Give us relational advice! You’ve been there and can see from a distance what we cannot see up close.

MB newcomers: Read all you can, ask for help here, and seek professional advice too. Get a second opinion before you dull your senses with drugs.

Painter, I agree with much of what you said, but I wanted to point out that it is NOT standard advice to tell folks to check into anti-depressants. Some members do recommend it, but many don't.

Folks who post here have to understand that they are going to get a variety of opinions from people just like them. It doesn't absolve them of the responsibility whether or not to take that advice. We are all responsible for our own choices.

Even so, there is nothing wrong with telling a person to see their doctor about it; one can't just go to Walgreens and buy AD's off the shelf. They have to be evaluated by a doctor in order to get them.

I like what you said about researching it before you take it. I have learned the hard way to never blindly trust any doctor. The ultimate responsibility for a person's health lies with them and no one else. My motto is trust.........but verify.

Good post, Painter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The way most of us live requires us to be functioning at a high level most of the time, and ADs help us to do this. They help us keep our jobs and keep from getting malnourished and keep some of us from killing ourselves.

I don't believe I was "supposed" to feel as horrible as I did before I was on ADs. Without any sarcasm - do you have any ideas about how deep despair and depression might be necessary and good for us?

I don't mean to get too caught up in the issue of suicide, but certainly it is of no benefit for somebody to feel suicidal. And yet it is a normal feeling for many BS to have.

I suppose you could argue that without sinking as low as we're gonna sink, we never allow ourselves to be properly tested. But I'd say that's hogwash. I've been tested plenty in the last four months. But here I am arguing with myself.

Interesting subject. Glad you brought it up.

GC

One more thing, Painter.

ADs do not dull one's senses. Least the ones I'm on don't. That's an oversimplification and a misconception.

GC

I do believe there ARE many drawbacks to going on ADs.
I don't want to elaborate but there simply are. (Just don't get me started on my band box....from second hand experience of more than one person I've witnessed on them)

Yay for those who are satisfied with them in general.....I'm happy for you.

I was thinking about posting on this subject.

While talking with an MD at the PCH where I work, he was surprised that, given my circumstances, I wasn't on AD's.

He kindly offered to give me Paxil samples.

I declined, but when I got home I looked it up, and then called a pharmacist friend, who quietly advised me against this particular drug .

I am very glad I passed on this.

Yes I am stressed, and yes I get sad.

But under these circumstances, sadness is normal. Grieving is normal. Anxiety is normal. Fear is normal.

It is normal to feel these things. It is okay to be a basket case some days. It is okay to cry, and rage and have ups and downs.

We are going through a hard thing. It is supposed to hurt!

I'm not saying no one should be on AD's.

But before you do, be informed and weigh the risks.

Excellent point, Painter! My BH is very, very thankful he never sought after ADs. But just as all WSs are not alike neither are all BSs. The choice to take ADs or not is an individual one and there is no judgement upon those that do.

A peeve of mine: It is disconcerting to see a short welcome and then the words, "get some ADs" on the tail end of it. It is a bit of a presumption to assume that any and all BSs require or even want to take ADs. Many do not.

We need to give each other elbow room to do whatever we need to do to recover including taking or not taking medication but I would like to see those who recommend ADs routinely in their posts to get to know the person first. If they feel that ADs would be helpful, then by all means they should express their opinion but within the context of an established posting relationship.

Newbies need time to sort out the quality of advice they recieve here. Bob Pure said recently, "All advice is not equal." and he is right. A variety of opinions is valuable on the board but when it comes to health issues I think we need to err on the side of caution. Good post Painter.

When I came on here I was broken, smashed. When my posts became erratic and very dark some folks suggested that I should hi-tail it to the docs and consider A-D meds.

I did, and whether they helped or not I don't know, but I ain't dead and just like those folks predicted back then, I am coping better right now than I ever dreamed would be possible in the dark times.
I have not been on a-ds for almost four weeks now. The side effects were pretty bad, I'm glad to be off them.

In truth perhaps as a board we sometimes SAY we recommend 'a-ds' when we really mean " go see a healthcare professional and don't think you're weak for using A-ds if your doc thinks appropriate'.

Many folks ( me included) have avoid 'crutch' drugs like plague all our lives, but when you hit low enough, that silly prejudice MUST stop.

Good , thought provoking post painter.

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Painter:
I’ve noticed a trend here regarding welcoming newcomers. The message almost always reads the same: “Welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you have to be here, but read all you can and get on anti-depressants” </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Painter...I have to disagree with you. I have yet to see a "welcome to MB" message with "get on some AD's." (No one actually has addressed that yet, so I figured I would.) Through time, of course I've seen it (and suggested it--but like Mel said, through an MD--one can't get it OTC!)

However, you make some valid points when researching your AD's. (One, in my opinion, should do that with *any* medication they are ingesting!) Good point to something that can be easily overlooked.

For those who are reading this because they are struggling with the question (should I take them or not) I have read here that there is a homeopathic version too. I'm quite sure Mother Nature has provided things to help us when we're in need, so it might be a good thing to look into that. Anyone with any experience there?

hi.....good topic..... i have to say i would have to agree with what Graycloud said.

Taking the female side of things, practically all of us have children, household duties, etc. etc. and much much more. My children are teens, but they still needed me to be their mom in all sense of the word.

For a week after both D-Days, I was here, but non-exsistent in anything. I just layed in bed and stared at the ceiling.

I guess it all depends on how much strength you have to fight the pain, I didnt have any, so AD's was the best thing for me, dont regret it for a minute.

A/C0810

I agree that these days AD's are over prescribed and people need to talk to their doctor and do their own research before taking this step. When I went to a counselor after D-Day the first thing she told me was I was clinically depressed and should go on AD's. I was two months pregnant at the time and couldn't go on AD's even if I wanted. That was my first indication that it was time to find a new counselor!

SAA strongly emphasises the AD approach, hence the push towards it on this site, I suspect.

I've come to believe that the reason Harley advises ADs is that his method requires the BS to be thinking clearly. At a time when you're flooded by appalling emotions, it's incredibly difficult to 'contain' yourself enough for the Plan A approach. ADs don't deaden your senses, but they stop your anxiety from reaching the point where you can't think for the emotional pain. If you never reach that point, you probably don't need ADs.

I was strongly opposed to medication of that kind, and went through the first eighteen months without approaching a doctor. Eventually, it became clear that the anxiety attacks triggered by 'discussions' with H were blocking our progress. I decided that a temporary, artificial block to those panic symptoms was worth trying to see if it would help.

In the last six months there HAVE been side-effects - headaches and weight-gain, as well as difficulty climaxing. I'm looking forward to being rid of those in a month or so, although I'm also concerned about the return of those debilitating emotional storms. However, the 'calm' of these last months has allowed me to detach myself just enough to get the situation in perspective, and to think through my actions rather than just react.

My doctor also emphasised that ADs are a temporary 'crutch' to keep you afloat while you work out healthy coping strategies.

TA

Paxil is associated with a seven fold increase risk of breast cancer. Conversely, I suspect deep and prolonged emotional pain and unresolvable stress might be a cause of cancer too. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I am absolutely certain I would have done a hundred times better had I taken anti depressants, as recommened by everyone. I have refused to take them. I didn't think I should have to be medicated in order to stay in my marriage. Either it makes it on its own merit or it doesn't. For me personally, it's been really terrible. MOnths of not eating and not sleeping followed by my mothers death from cancer. Then months of anger and resentment and endless confusion about what happened and what it all meant. Menopause or is it PMS mood swings? I would love to be able to dose up and opt out. But something in me is dogged.

For those who need to work and function - I think it's a personal choice. We cannot tell each other what is right for them.

BTW St. John's Wort is excellent. Least the ones that I took were. But I stopped taking them because of possible side effects - I'm going to give them another try in a months time.

Painter -

I always recommend anti-D's to people that are completely unable to function. They work so well! And I have never been a drug taker. I don't even like to take aspirin.

Had both my boys with natural childbirth. But there was a reason - to protect the baby.

You have to weigh the risk vs the benefit. I have seen lots of people lose their job after D-day. That makes no sense, just suffering through it.

I'd like to weigh in on this topic. Years ago it seemed that ADs were being prescribed almost immediately to people in therapy. I used to think it was just dulling people and not allowing them to work through their emotions and issues. Then my H was treated for Hep C which threw him into a deep depression. When he finally got on an AD everything improved. Since that time I went to school to get my counseling degree. In my 2 years working with my clients this is my approach. Unless someone comes in with major depression, or is definitely suicidal, I prefer to try just therapy for a while. If progress isn't being made I have found that an AD can help clear the person's thinking up to the point that we then can make real progress in therapy.

Now my experience. I had never been on an AD. Through all the crisis in my life I just worked through it. After the truth began coming out in January about the A, like many here, I couldn't eat, sleep, suffered from anxiety (which I didn't have anxiety before), and couldn't function. For 2 weeks I debated about getting on an AD. I am forever grateful for the recommendations on this site to get on a AD. Being in the counseling profession I knew I was in a major depressive episode. I called my doctor and asked her to put me on an AD, and even told her which one, based what I knew about the cleanest one out there. I was still hesitant and asked her if I should be on one given my depression was caused by outside circumstances, not a biological factors. She told me if it lessens my anxiety and helps me get through this crisis I should do it. I also asked for sleep meds several weeks after that, something I had never taken before.

Getting on that AD was the best thing I could have done. Within 3 days it began kicking in, the anxiety lessened, and I began thinking more clearly. Right after d-day the BS has to go into battle mode. It is like a strategic game to try and break up the A. If I would have been a basket case I'm not sure I could have have done what I needed to do, and I am a very strong person. In later months H admitted to me that at the time he wanted me to kick him out. The MB plan took him off gaurd and he stayed.

What I have said on MB many times is that it is documented that a BS has PTSD. That is a mental disorder, like someone who has been raped. Also, even if depression is caused by outside circumstances, it can still change the chemistry in the brain. For me the AD did not dull my pain. I sobbed often those first months after d-day. It just removed the anxiety edge so I could do what I needed to do.

I'm not recommending that everyone go on an AD, just that I am so grateful I did. Everyone reacts differently to different ADs, so you need to find the right one. Lexapro worked great for me. It began to cause sexual dysfunction so I ended up going to a psychiatrist and added Wellbutrin to the mix. It is recommended that a person stay on an AD for a year before getting off. I can't wait to get off of the ADs, but for now I'm waiting out the year. If it helps me to keep doing what I need to do to save this M and be there for my boys then I'll stay on them.

So that's my story! Good discussion. CV

I thought I was going to get beat-up for sure over this one...

I realize ADs are not OTC, but if you know where to go and who to ask it's way too easy to get samples without any evaluation. My mom sees a Dr. Feelgood who got me all the Ritalin I wanted.

To those of you surviving with ADs, I don't want to take them from you. Several have pointed out that it comes down to a personal choice. I could have made that point clearer in my original piece.

St. Johns Wort has worked for me in the past, I also drink green tea if I don't know what else to do. (just seems like an earthy homeopathic thing to do) I'd like to hear about more Ma Nature remedies too. Although one obvious one aint exactly leagal...

Thanx for all the replies.

:::::]went through the first eighteen months without approaching a doctor. Eventually, it became clear that the anxiety attacks triggered by 'discussions' with H were blocking our progress.
::::: I'm looking forward to being rid of those in a month or so, although I'm also concerned about the return of those debilitating emotional storms. However, the 'calm' of these last months has allowed me to detach myself just enough to get the situation in perspective, and to think through my actions rather than just react.

Hi TA, I am 22 months post d-day and pretty much stuck at where you were stuck at 18 months. Emotional storms? If you are referring to what I am experiencing then you have my sympathy. These emotional storms are overwhelming. I'm even wondering whether I have a split personality. I seem to slip between being two people. All can be going along just fine and then something will be said about the A and I lose it completely, taking hours to calm down.

CV55, how has the Wellbrutin with Lexapro worked out for you? Have you got reasonable sexual function on this combo?

I'm really thinking I'm not being so clever to not try an A/D for a while. Just to give myself a break from all the thinking. I hate what this has turned me into.

I'm another one who lived for nearly a year without the ADs. I thought I could handle it, though our MC quietly suggested them for both of us as he started to see that we weren't making progress.

I finally started taking them when I realized that WP was going to truly do horrific things and I needed to be able to think.

I like to compare it to speakers that are turned up too loud. My emotions were so utterly overwhelming that all I could hear was incredibly loud static. I was utterly unable to function.

And that was before WP revoked her consent to the adoption and started denying me access.

As the meds started to kick in, I started to be able to think again. I sincererly wish that I'd started taking them sooner -- and yet, as we often say of waywards, I had to hit a place where the pain of being there was worse than the pain of taking MAJOR steps to change.

I took the major steps because of what I was going to lose if I didn't. Fear for your kid is a really good motivator. Even better than fear for your own safety, I think.

As I stayed on the meds, I slowly came to a point where I was at 75% or 80% of my previously normal capacity to function. (As opposed to being at maybe 5% to 15% beforehand.)

When I hit the six month point on the ADs, I immediately talked to my doc about going off of them. He was willing, and I weaned off of them in the usual couple of months, and my ability to think went up incrementally again.

I'm probably now at 95% of the pure intellectual ability that I had before this crisis. If I made a few other changes in my life, I could be back to 100%, I think. However, I prefer to have the emotional stability I now have, and to approach that peak intellectual performance level (as far as I can -- I'm not 21 years old anymore, which is when mathematical ability peaks) while maintaining the other things I've gained.

I'm sorry if this is threadjacking, but JJ just struck a chord that my W has been doing--that's getting *off* of the AD's. How have others handled this?