Kiwi, did you SEE what I accidentaly called Boppo??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> After that fiasco, TMCM asked a loaded question, lol....if it had been anyone else...dunno about that one! Yet another opportunity to make more of a fool of myself on the same thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Come on, why DON'T you jump in and help??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

anyname, I followed the Atkins diet to the letter and have been on it for about 6 years now. It has truly been a lifesaver for me in so many ways. The food on Atkins eliminates blood sugar spikes so you don't have the constant exhausting spike and crash, spike and crash throughout the day. It normalized my blood sugar levels, and because of that my energy levels stay nice and steady throughout the day.

Another side benefit has been the reduction of once high cholesterol to normal, healthy levels.

I was plagued most of my life with mid-late afternoon tiredness and irritability; that all went away and now my energy levels are the same throughout the day. I used to have to plan my day around a nap, now I can go without a nap and feel just great.

Basically, what I did was eliminate all junk food and replaced with low glycemic vegetables, fruits and nuts. I never ever eat sugar of any kind, no honey, no high sugar fruit, no fruit juice [it is terrible!], fructose, lactose, etc. I limit my vegetables to the low starch variety and avoid all bread.

The rest of my diet consists of meat, cheese and eggs. I find that I have to stick to the low sugar fruits in the berry group with the occasional peach. But I have fruit rarely, because it aggravates my blood sugar and sets off sweet cravings again.

If you want to try it, get Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution. You might also want to check out his newer book [I haven't read it yet] called Dr Atkins Diabetes Solution. You might find alot in there that would be helpful.

I probably sound like a commercial, but it is just one the greatest things that has ever happened to me and I can't say enough about it.

And you can always email me and I can help you if you decide to do it @ dana100@cablelynx.com

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Another thing that made a huge difference is taking an essential oil pill every day. It has lineolic acid, fish oils, borage and flaxseed oil in it. It is supposed to help fight depression and I take one every day.

MelodyLane and others, while I think it is ABSOLUTELY correct that there can be holistic reasons for ongoing depression, I think that "point stimulus" depression is a different thning.

My doctor explained to me that because I had never encountered a stress trigger like D-Day before, and that in his experience there is only one other stress trigger worse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> my body's coping mechanism was thrown into chaos trying to process the deluge of hugely negative data by over-mobiilising responses. He said that a managed a-d could help normalise, or make less extreme these responses so that I concentrate on processing the central issue of the betrayal without also having to deal with maximum-thrust responses.

I dunno frankly if they worked, but the scenario sounds like me.

I have been A-D free for over three weeks now and I seem to be coping OK. The side effects of Cipramil were unpleasant to me, but I am here today in a not entirely misrable place that I never dreamed I would ever se a couple of months ago.

I have never been depressive in my life, but I know people who DO suffer this way and yes I believe a paitient and skilled doctor should work on ways to holistically remove the depression, rather than doling out xanax.

I now consider a-ds in response to point-stimulus depression at least to be the same as taking an Ibuprofen for a headache. Not a crutch, not a weakness, just a 21st century convenience.

I didn't read the responses to your post, I just have a few minutes. So if this has been covered I apoligize.
My oldest son, Christopher died by suicide May 2. He had been taking anti-depressants for 6 years, There has recently been studies that show a marked increase in suicides of young men who are taking these. I would urge all caution before advising ANYONE I LOVED TO DO SO!
suicide is the #2 leading cause of death in young men aged 14 to 24. I would do anything to stop this new round of pill poppers, just like 20 years ago when they had 1 in 4 women on Valium. God, when are we going to stop letting the drug industry addict us and run our lives! If only i had known that these pills could actually hurt him instead of help him I would never have allowed him to take them. But, I trusted the doc. He only had so much info at the time too. Now, it is too late. My beautiful son is gone.

Jen. Hi. You are a good sort! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

KB. You didn't answer my post about forgiveness. But dont' worry, I only spent two days writing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ML, think I might email you privately as I'm quite interested to discuss the Atkins diet with you. My cholesterol is too high, and I've had a sneaking suspicion about refined carbs and sugar for a while now.

CV55 - is Lexepro a tablet or a capsule? I was wondering how I'd go on 5mgs a day? I did very well a few yrs back on 10mgs per day of paxil, so am wondering if I could feel some benefits on a small dose of lexepro.

Anyname, I take one lexapro pill a day. When I took the 20 mg. pill after d-day I could not believe the difference I felt after 3 days. Maybe some of that was placebo, but I doubt it. It is unusual for most ADs to kick in that quick, but Lexapro is quicker acting. Again, it DID NOT dull my feelings. I experienced it all. It just took the huge anxiety edge off of me, allowing me to better cope with the crisis at hand. After several months went by, and the full effect of the drug kicked in, is when the sexual dysfunction began. I never lost my desire.

This is more info than you are asking for. You can ask your doctor about starting on a 5 mg. Lexapro. If that is not doing anything the doc will up it until you are on the right dose.

Remember that each person is different, so what is good for one person might not be best for another. I just know that except for the sexual dysfunction, that not everyone experiences on Lexapro, Lexapro is a pretty clean AD (meaning minimal side effects). Just for everyone's information, most SSRIs (which are very effective for depression), can cause sexual dysfunction. Paxil is one of the worst for that side effect.

You can also try St. John's or Sam-E(sp?). I have asked 2 psychiatrists about them and they both said the research doesn't back up the claims. However, they are dealing with the prescription drugs. The one thing to realize is that anything we put in our bodies, called natural or not, is doing something to our body chemistry. Also, when I have looked into some of the natural remedies I would have to take so many pills to get the desired amount, as apposed to the 2 pills I am taking now. Plus my insurance is paying for most of it.

I too am very concerned about labeling someone as depressed. I hate insurance companies. Anyway, my therapist and I discussed my diagnosis. Most therapists will hopefully give the mildest diagnosis it takes to get insurance benefits in the situations we find ourselves. I'm talking about those of us who did not have pre-existing depression. Still it doesn't matter. If you were fine, and the A threw you into PTSD or whatever, that would be noted.

Sorry, I'm writing too much. Also, the South Beach Diet is good also.

Melodie, what is that pill you are taking? I take a fish oil pill, but I like the flaxseed in the one you are taking. Thanks! CV

Cherise, I am so sorry for the death of your son. I don't know much about the recent info about ADs and young people, but it is very concerning. Thanks for sharing that information. CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong>

Melodie, what is that pill you are taking? I take a fish oil pill, but I like the flaxseed in the one you are taking. Thanks! CV </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CV, I agree there is a very big difference between situational depression and lifelong depression like mine. I don't know much about that, I only know what worked for me.

The best essential oil pill that I have found is from Atkins Nutritionals. I qualify that by adding that it has been 5 years since I looked around. Back then there was no pill that included ALL of the essential oils like fish, borage, flaxseed, alpha lineolic acid. You had to buy them all seperately, which was very expensive. And I trust Atkins' judgement on this because he specialized in vita-nutritents and wrote a very well researched book called Atkins Vita-Nutrient Solution.

I take Eskimo 3 fish oil. I also take magnesium which is supposed to be good for depression too.

:::: I could not believe the difference I felt after 3 days. Maybe some of that was placebo, but I doubt it.

I've read some excellent articles about SSRI's and heard the stats re placebo. However when I took paxil in 1998 it started working in 3 days too. I thought it was a wonder drug. I find it hard to believe I imagined the effect. I had suffered a mini breakdown due to moving countries to a new place to a new house my H had bought (I had not seen) and I just hit the wall. Had stopped eating and was transfixed with anxiety. Terrible weight loss etc.


::: It just took the huge anxiety edge off of me, allowing me to better cope with the crisis at hand. After several months went by, and the full effect of the drug kicked in, is when the sexual dysfunction began. I never lost my desire.

I've got thru a lot - and when you talk about PTSD? I think some of us go thru hell with that. I'm past a lot of that now, but the emotional storms that Together Alone refers to are terrible still. Just terrible.


:::You can also try St. John's or Sam-E(sp?). I have asked 2 psychiatrists about them and they both said the research doesn't back up the claims.

You get conflicting stories about them. We had an item on the Australian 60 minutes program recently and the senior medical man argueing against vitamins said St. John's Wort should be on prescription. Following that comment I tried it. The first lot did nothing, so changed to a mega dose of a different brand and really noticed a difference. I've had to stop taking it because I experienced very, very painful breasts. I was afraid that it worked like a phytoestrogen. My daughter said it might just mess up my livers metabolism, but I have stopped it for a month or two and will try it again. For me, it was similar to paxil. I had so much energy. Hadn't ironed in two years and suddenly I was ironing everything that moved. I felt really positive and no emotional storms except one the nite before my period. Better than two weeks of them? (ok so now who's giving too much information?)

SamE? Yeah, have heard about that - but it's very expensive. I'm also trying to get hold of something called Pycnogenol. It's pine bark extract from a french maritime pine tree. I read an article about it showing 100% success rate in treating PMS. As I think part of my problem is extreme PMS, I'm keen to try it.

::::However, they are dealing with the prescription drugs. The one thing to realize is that anything we put in our bodies, called natural or not, is doing something to our body chemistry.

I'll drink to that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

:: I'm talking about those of us who did not have pre-existing depression. Still it doesn't matter. If you were fine, and the A threw you into PTSD or whatever, that would be noted.

I was great before. I was so good that it took me a while to go into decline. Or was that denial? Then started drinking again and eating rubbish. Then the PMS started and the mood swings from hell.

I've pretty much realised that I will have to accept sexual dysfunction with a/d's if I want to stay M. If I go on like this the M will end anyway, so either way I'll have sexual dysfunction right?

Anyway, thanx for your input. I've missed reading your posts lately and not sure how you are doing?

AN

cherise,

I am so, so sorry for your loss!

I started this thread in response to a story like yours. ADs can be dangerous and are over prescribed in many cases. The more I look into it; it seems to be young males that are at greatest risk. The success stories here are from folks definitely out of puberty.

Given the environment here and people involved, the thread took a turn more towards info that helps BS fight depression. That’s ok with me.

Part of my original intent was to highlight a story like Christopher’s to warn about sometimes fatal side effects. Thank-you for sharing.

Painter,

I have to disagree with your original post.I have been here almost a year and I do not regularly see people forcing the issue about AD's.It does come up and many of us suggest them if the newcomer is an an acute post affair/adultery situation where eating,sleeping and emotional disturbances occur.Obviously these drugs cannot be given without an evaluation first by a doctor/psychiatrist,etc.

As with any drug,there are numerous side effects,even potentially fatal ones.But the job of the prescriber is to weigh the benefits against the effects for that individual.

Being an RN,I know all too well what this entails. I was also a person that does not like to take any medication except ASA(Aspirin).But I did realize that I was in a state of shock and my very wellbeing depended on this type of medication for me to survive.Having suicidal thoughts,severe sleep deprivation and weight loss were not symptoms I could have effectively treated with some OTC(over the counter)"herbs and spices".

My point is that I do not want people to feel that they cannot share their positive experiences about AD's if this is what has helped them with this trauma.Like someone else mentioned,we are a message board and only give our personal accounts of Infidelity and all aspects related to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

My 2 cents about Paxil: BAAD one to take! It was the first one my Dr. put me on some years ago. I felt good emotionally but had LOTS of side effects. I had tremors, I yawned all the time, I couldn't sleep, had little "electrical zaps" in my arms, and sex was just out of the question. I was physically numb like someone shot me with novacaine.

Serzone was just as bad, and made me feel weird, too. I took another--can't remember what. Finally settled on Celexa with great results, and this year switched to Lexapro when my insurance removed Celexa from their list. Also have great results on it.

My point--for those of you who DO take A/D's, if you have problems, don't think ALL A/D's are bad. Be honest with your Dr. about your concerns, ALL of them (even the sometimes embarassing sexual ones). Not everything works for everyone.

I also have concerns with A/D's for children and teens. My daughter briefly took one a LONG time ago when she was so anxious from school that she was physically throwing up. It helped, but we were on it very short term, along with therapy. She's not taken one since.

And finally, Melody, you may regret putting your email out here. I'll bet you've gotten several requests for advice on the diet/cholesteral thing already. I'm thin (5'9" and under 130lb), overall I don't live on junk food, and my cholesterol a month ago was almost 250! I might be the next email you get!

LL

Painter,
I guess you could lump me into the "Dr Feel Good" category if you'd like.

There are times when I tell newbies not to be afraid to go to their Dr. and to ask about ADs. I also tell them to be wary of getting this type of important advice from the run of the mill HMO type GP.

I made that mistake and found out that they aren't set up to really diagnose and then monitor their patients on ADs. My GP put me on Lexapro after my DDay1 but didn't really set up a good monitoring process. Just refills. After a few months I dropped Lexapro bc I didn't feel as though it was really helping.

Later in time came DDay2 and I was a mess. Didn't immediately seek ADs bc of prior experience. Also wanted to do it myself.

Four months later I was still having huge mood swings. It felt as though I couldn't control myself. Lots of nasty words spoken to my FWW.

A new IC convinced me that I needed to go see a psychiatrist whom she worked with to diagnose depression. I went and was diagnosed with major depression. The doctor felt that it had been going on well prior to the affair and may have been a contributing factor.

Now that I know more about the symptoms I can tell you that my FWW was also suffering from depression that in effect led her into the A.

The Dr. had an interesting take on affairs, which I had suspected but never knew if it were true. We here at MB all agree that the WSs are acting selfishly. They are living the fantasy. Tey're in the "fog." They are in a relationship that isn't real. The relationship makes them feel good. They get flattered. It boosts an ego that typically has low self-esteem issues. The affair makes the WS feel good.

The Dr feels that the affair acts as a natural AD bc of its effect on the WS's brain chemistry. (See the Road Less Traveled for explanation of the chemical reasons behind the "In Love" feeling) He also said that the "posative" benefits are just "quick fixes." The long term effect is to sink the person further into depression due to feelings of guilt.

We all know that the fallout from an affair is horrible. The Dr isn't saying everyone who is depressed should have or will have an affair but he's saying that an affair given the oppurtunity and circumstances may be more likely to occur in a depressed individual than one who isn't.

He's also made the following observations:

People who are put on ADs need to be closely monitored by a Dr. since early in the treatment cycle due to the changes in brain chemistry the risk for suicide can go up temporarily.

The longer someone goes untreated for depression the more difficult it is to treat.

If it is improperly treated, ie medication for too short a time period or improper dosages, the more difficult it is to treat.

The more major episodes of depression a person has had in their life the more difficult it can be to treat.

Depression is a change in brain chemistry. The chemistry can not be altered or modified without additional chemistry whether natural (SJ's Wart) or synthetic (ADs).

Not every AD is right for everyone. Lexapro worked reasonably well for me but Wellibutrin was better. In certain situations combinations are tried, which is another reason to go to a specialist and not the co-pay HMOer who's trying to minimize his loss.

Depression and the likelihood of getting it and the severity of the symptoms are hereditery. Again its brain chemistry. Nature not nurture.

I think most people who post here at MB know that the other posters aren't Drs or professional ICs or MCs. I also don't think that most posters try to pass themselves off as experts. They are just trying to let that newbie, who is starting down that long winding road aka the rollercoaster, know that they have been there before them. They retell their experiences hoping that it may give some small piece of advice to the newbie that might help.

The best thing about MB is that it is a community of BSs and FWSs who can share their experiences. It's also a virtual group therapy session. BSs especially feel very lonely and alienated right after DDay (that's why so many think about suicide) MB lets them know that they are not alone, that they are not isolated and that they can make it whatever the ourcome.

Mac

anyname, remember that my psychiatrist added Wellbutrin to counter the sexual dysfunction of Lexapro. By the way I learned about that possibility on MB and mentioned it to my primary doctor. That is when I began going to the psych for more specialized treatment.

Mac, what your doctor said is very true concerning close monitoring at the beginning of taking an AD. I was never suicidal personally. However, when a person is in a clinical depression, and they have suicidal thoughts, they often don't have the energy to actually commit suicide. When the person begins to feel better, which can happen when beginning an AD, the person then can have the energy to commit suicide. Another reason why therapy is so important in conjunction with someone taking ADs for depression. Thanks for sharing your psych's theory. CV

::::MB lets them know that they are not alone, that they are not isolated and that they can make it whatever the ourcome.

mcw, I logged onto MB's within a week of d-day. I didn't stay longer than 24 hrs. I was so shocked that I was in such a terrible place, that I refused to stay. I couldn't get my head around my marriage requiring this kind of help. I was in major denial of course. I returned 15 months later.

I was wondering whether you feel close to coming off Wellbrutin? TA's words about fearing the return of the emotional storms when she is finished her year on a/d's, made me think what happens after a year? Any thoughts?

Btw, CV55, and cwm, I get the message. A doctor is required for assessment. I think that another symptom of depression is unwillingness to consult a doctor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This tread has been very interesting, and helpful. I am on Lexapro for anxiety attacks, and it has worked tremendously well. But I am going to go off of it, to see if I can swing it now without.

Along the lines of natural remedies, I have just started taking a combination of 3 herbs which are supposed to plump up the ole breasts, as the ex was running around with someone who lets say is "artificially enhanced", and I just can't stand someone one uppin me in that department. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll let you ladies know how it works. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

P.S. Mel, thanks for the hint on the oils, I'm going to try that too, all I take now is Evening Primrose Oil.