OK. I know this question may seem not to have anything to do with MB, but it does in my sit--in a huge way.

Briefly, for those don't know the history: we have four children: S19, S18, D10, & D2. Part of my downfall was not being able to "deal" with anything. (Or confronting it and not getting any results.)

The past month has been extremely and at the utmost STRESSFUL! I have been trying to handle things head on and not escape like I did so often in the past.

Besides the EA I was in and ended--that in itself can cause a catastrophe--we are handling a move (which is a great thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but still stressful); back to school, our oldest son and his non-chalant, lazy, "I have no ambition" attitude; our oldest daughter and her new JHS 'tude (although she was an invaluable help to me with our youngest D during the summer); our youngest D, who just needs the attention as she's 2!; and our 18-yo S.

Brief hostory with him: about 2 months ago, I had finally had enough and kicked him out. He had failed his senior year because he just didn't give a $hit; he absolutely refused to help out with babysitting between our shifts (about an hour a day); refused to help out with *anything* around the house; took *everything* for granted; disrespected us all; and has a "smoking" habit on top of that, etc. Well, I hope you get the picture. One day he was walking out the door, said he wouldn't be back in time to babysit, said he didn't care, and he called my bluff one too many times. Much to his surprise, when he came home that night, he *did* find his stuff on the front lawn.

Anyway, after using all of his friends for about a month's time, he decided he wanted to (or probably used all of his friends' stays up) come home. We sat down briefly and discussed the terms. Plan A for children, I guess! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He has always taken things for granted and thinks the world revolves around him and the world should certainly stop for him and his problems. (Last night I spent the night in the ER as he was hit with a puck in the neck. It was during warm-ups and he still played the game! Then I get a call from my W, saying they were on their way to the ER. Called him, where they were, they were about 15 mins away. By the time I closed up the new house (I was clening it) etc and got to the hospital, they should have been there for at least 15 mins. They didn't even get there yet! He had to stop off at 7-11 first! Needless to say, I went ballistic when they finally did get there. I checked out his neck, surveyed the sit and said, you still want to go in?!?! So, long story long, I am now 6 for 6 with "major" injuries and whether they really needed the ER or not: no fracture no nothing, just swelling and pain. (To top it off, he wanted a CAT scan too!) Didn't get home til about 3 this morning.

I hate to say it, but things were better when he wasn't home. The new house has a basement apartment which the boys will be living in and paying rent.

Anyway, since he has been back home, I have been feeling the same anxiety, stress, and stress on brown and I that I felt when we just weren't connecting.

I am so sorry this is so long, but it's been very difficult finding the right balance for everything. (And I didn't even get into what's been going on at work with my employees! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

I am at a loss for "what to do" and how I can separate the two: my son and my M.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If anything, it feels good to get it all out again. (Brown already had to hear it this morning while at work. Ech.)

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

well I know I am taken 2 asprin just reading it LOL sorry had to RAZZ YA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I don't know if I get it , YOu need to know how to separte your son from your M ???
Well taken a stab at this ,,, BOTH of you need to deal with your son he is an ADULT thats first .

I would set those bounderies on last time when you guys move in the new house ,,, FAMILY meeting !

As a family they need to know that family's pitch in and help take care of one another , with that life won't be so hard ....

NOW the separte the stress from the M ,, well same a plan MAN ! YOU and Brown ,,, bith of you need to attack this stress as a team ..

I guess by what your saying is you use to avoid helping out in the passed ? well now your in it and that does not mean alone .

you can't let yourself get so over welmed , one problem at a time ...

And work well I always say its a job ,,, leave it there ,,, that cuts down on that .

I know this is probbly no help at all I just hate to see post go unanswered !

What does Brown say about all this ,,,?? I am sure shes stressed as well ,,how does she handle the juggle of it ?

take an advil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> cuddle with your W and start ove rin the morning ... Sorry .

3

Thanks for responding, 3iac--even if it was out of pity! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this is probbly no help at all I just hate to see post go unanswered ! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
I guess by what your saying is you use to avoid helping out in the passed ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, just the opposite. After brown's MB, I had to take care of everything. And I got tired after awhile, as selfish as that was--I stopped not giving a $hit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can't let yourself get so over welmed , one problem at a time ...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, the impulsiveness in me. I want to conquer the world! Hard to do when everything seems to have turned on all at the same time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does Brown say about all this ,,,?? I am sure shes stressed as well ,,how does she handle the juggle of it ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely stressed. We had another argument this afternoon--over something really stupid, but the topic was, of course, the kids again.

Thanks again for posting, 3iac. I hope I can get more feedback--even if it is out of pity! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (Have a great weekend!)

Hi LINY,

Sounds like a three month course at Parris Island would straighten him right out and put a little discipline and direction into his life...


Semper Fi,
RIF90

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: Rebuilding in Faith 90 ]</small>

Liny,
Sounds like your S needs a reality check, but I guess you already know that huh? Small pieces friend, small doses of parenting need her. Your SON is an adult even if he chooses not to behave like one. I'm willing to bet eventhough he acts like he doesn't care about his future/life he's probably very frustrated and nervous. Does he have a plan for his life? Without a plan he's going to find more trouble to get into. I read where you put him out and after doing the SPONGE BOB on friends etc...he came back. Did he show any improvement?


You and Brown must give yourselves a break. It's not your job to fix your S. He is an Adult remember? You guys have a M to think about and letting your S stress you out is not an option. 2X4 (whack! Whack! WHACK once more... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) Seriously though, give yourself permission to set boundaries. It's okay to say to yourself, I've been doing all I can to lead him this way, but he must learn for himself. I know this is easier said than done, but if you don't set the bar of limitations you're going to go crazy. LINY/BROWN you guys can't save people from themselves, you can offer your love, support and guidance, but at some point they must start being receptive and even more importantly, taking responsibility.

My D is only 14, but she too has to make some decisions. I cannot force her to go to school, do her homework etc...I can only provide, reinforce boundaries, REWARDS and repurcussions for her actions. I do not envy your situation, though it's fastly approaching. HECK, I can't control my D as it is, but I don't think I'm supposed to...:FREE WILL! Your S is free to be a bumb, a jerk, or a productive member of society. He must make that decision and he will, but as long as you stay in the middle he'll probably rebell just out of spite. No one really wants to be a bumb yah know? OKAY, some people but they live on beaches with leathery skin and bleached hair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Give yourself a breather whenever necessay, you've earned it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rebuilding in Faith 90: Sounds like a three month course at Parris Island would straighten him right out and put a little discipline and direction into his life...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RIF90...thanks for the response. I've said that a few times over the years (for both of them.) Certainly shed some light on my sister, and two B'sIL.

Teenagers are funny that way...they go through their angst and as a parent you explain "YOU WOULD HAVE *NOTHING* IF IT WEREN'T FOR THIS GOVERNMENT OF YOURS ND THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT--PARTICULARLY, THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO FIGHT FOR US--LITERALLY FIGHT FOR US." I *HIGHLY* respect gentlemen (and women) such as yourself. Thank you! And both of us being feds, it's even more "hurtful." It's funny, though...when they were contemplating a mandatory draft, we saw a visible change in them. Fear. Kids these days aren't afraid of anything--'til it slaps them in the face and they have *NO* control over the sit. Yes it would be a great idea. It's also "funny" how, they over the age of 18, have all of these "rights", yet when it comes right down to it, we are still legally responsible for them.

FM...thanks too for taking the time to respond...I know it seems trvial to what you and so many others are going through, *BUT* I know this was one of our conflicts that led us down the road we travelled and decisions I made.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can offer your love, support and guidance, but at some point they must start being receptive and even more importantly, taking responsibility.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, the balance...I guess in comparison, we have been the meanest strictest parents in the world--compared to what we see today. (Cell phones pre-teen, the clothes--oh, the clothes (or lack of them!), the attitudes, the lack of respect, the lack of discipline. It's depressing. I guess this is what every generation of parents go through, huh? However I was an angel! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's hard to "teach" them anymore. Even "guide" them.

And it all compounds the stress and tension we are feeling with each other. We are making a very conscious effort to realize when we are LB'ing, in our own little definition and "plan." Seems to be working--then you add the "everyday" stuff and our own responsibilities: AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!

The other thing in the back of our heads is: we realize they have to do things for themselves, mistakes, etc., but come next month, when they *have* to pay rent on the apartment in the house and we don't get it, where does that leave us? More stress and tension which overflows into what we need to concentrate on.

Thanks for the responses!

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong>

FM...thanks too for taking the time to respond...I know it seems trvial to what you and so many others are going through, *BUT* I know this was one of our conflicts that led us down the road we travelled and decisions I made.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is serious business Liny....I realize that in my M as well, issues with the kids, finances all play a part in how my M operates. It's really hard to keep FM the parent separate for FM the husband and not have spillage... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I've been debating on whether or not to chime into this post as I'm not sure what I have to offer. Lol..maybe I'm just looking into thoughts of my own situation, maybe i'm just trying to offer empathy..I dunno.

My son is 16 and he's from a previous marriage. I really hate to say this, but my son is the BIGGEST thing keeping my husband from committing to working towards a reconciliation. It is not my son's fault, it is not my husband's fault. It's just one of those things where they do not get along well and my husband cannot live in the same house with my son. They like each other well enough to be able to get along in a visiting situation but not in a living situation. This is something I cannot do anything about unless my husband and I see reconciliation as a real possibility. At that time I would look towards family therapy and/or parenting classes..but right now there's nothing to be done about it.

I feel really horrible for saying this, but I had a lot of resentment towards my son over the last year. Most of that is gone and has probably turned inwards to myself..but it rears it's ugly head once in awhile. While I do not believe my son holds any blame for anything....his behavoir most DEFINITLEY affected our marriage, especially in the last year and it added so much stress to an already stressful situation.

LINY, I don't really have any advice to offer, but just wanted to say that try to be easy on yourself. I know it's a difficult balance and you don't like having the thought that things were better when your son was not there. I can totally relate to that feeling and I have felt so much guilt over it. I hope that you can find a solution that benefits everyone.

Oh Dear LINY and BROWN!

Well...... I can relate!

Our 2 kids are adopted siblings. Born to a drug addict. We got our son when he was 3 years old. Our daughter when she was 8 months old.

Our son, L has always been a huge challenge. He came to us very damaged. Emotionally fragile.

Well, he is now 18 years old, and today he is in NYC visiting a friend. Yesterday he went to "ground zero" and Ellis Island.

His road has been long and very rough.

8 psychiatric hospitalizations <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

addiction(s)

2 different times sent to live in a group home, each time lasted one year in length

horrible knock-down-drag-out physical confrontations with us, his parents as we tried to restrain him from doing crazy things

2 investigations for child abuse! both came to the same conclusion.... we were instructed how to physically control him ~without leaving marks~! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

incredible stress

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is what did NOT work

giving in to his rages/demands

yelling

reasoning with /explaining to /educating a brick wall

time outs

grounding

taking all his "stuff" away

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is what did work

therapy (group/family/individual/parenting support groups )

BILY group (because I love you) google the name

protecting ourselves and our daughter

becoming a solid unbreakable TEAM of 2 parents who couldnot be divided (known as "splitting")

ALANON meetings and support

daily prayer with my husband

allowing our son to hurt due to HIS choices, not because of anything WE did

most recently, we put him into a sober living facility, and did not rescue him when he was kicked out and homeless.....

not giving him money , at all, even for food

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And time.....

Today, he is OK .... don't know for how long.... but I accept today.....

If you live in an area where a BILY group has meetings.... that is a great place to begin. It is a parent support group.... tells you practical things to do .... how to set up rules and consequences....


Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maddyk:
I feel really horrible for saying this, but I had a lot of resentment towards my son over the last year. Most of that is gone and has probably turned inwards to myself..but it rears it's ugly head once in awhile. While I do not believe my son holds any blame for anything....his behavoir most DEFINITLEY affected our marriage, especially in the last year and it added so much stress to an already stressful situation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maddy...oh, how true. Same thing--resentment, and the other "J" word that goes with it.

When I've showed signs of coming out of my shell as opposed to stuffing, this was something I have expressed. However, looking back, what the he11 was she going to do?

I guess I should really take a hard look at my life and say how really blessed I am. (My sons are from brown's previous R.) Ironically, my youngest son (the one who's giving us all of these problems) is the one who took to me immediately. (I've been in their lives since they were 4 and 5.)

Pep...now it makes sense where you get your strength from! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Wow! They say (whoever "they" are: Count your blessings, there is always somebody who has more of a trying situation than yourself." One, two, three, four, five, six...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you live in an area where a BILY group has meetings.... that is a great place to begin. It is a parent support group.... tells you practical things to do .... how to set up rules and consequences....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've never heard of this group, but sounds wonderful and obviously has worked for you and your family. I fear--at their ages--it would be useless. We've done all of the teaching we could do to help shape who they are--of course, with their own decisions thrown in the mix. I just hope and pray they have "heard" us over the years.

One of the other things that did work for you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">becoming a solid unbreakable TEAM of 2 parents who couldnot be divided (known as "splitting")</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy, oh boy. The extra work we have caused for ourselves. If we had a dollar for every time we have said, "And stop playing your mother against me!" and vice versa....

This plays into our non-stereotypical working arrangements: only for about 2 years of our M have we worked the same shift. Brown has said it many times and it's one thing that I am really taking a look back on and saying, "I really f'ed this one up. If only we were on the same shift."

I can't wait 'til I go to dayshift! My goal is within the next two years. (We mainly had to do this for daycare purposes.) We understand the utmost importance of this and have tried (almost despeartely to carry it out in our sit) to do our best, but I don't know how we succeeded.

My aunt has said to me (she comes up with these great one-liners that just make you think, much like you and ark^! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ): "You really don't know how good of a parent you've been 'til you see your children raising their children."

You've once again, Pep, given great advice. Something to share with brown tonight and pray about.

Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you live in an area where a BILY group has meetings.... that is a great place to begin. It is a parent support group.... tells you practical things to do .... how to set up rules and consequences....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've never heard of this group, but sounds wonderful and obviously has worked for you and your family. I fear--at their ages--it would be useless.

No..... some of the parents we met in BILY group were dealing with errant adult children in their 40s!!! Most were dealing with older teens....

Pep

link to BILY

if you click on "reference library" ... BILY will email you a wealth of info on a variety of parenting concerns

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

OMG, Pep! In their 40's?!?!?!? OK, now I'm depressed! I thought they were supposed to leave on their 20th birthday. Isn't there something written down somewhere? Like the parents handbook or something?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong> OMG, Pep! In their 40's?!?!?!? OK, now I'm depressed! I thought they were supposed to leave on their 20th birthday. Isn't there something written down somewhere? Like the parents handbook or something? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I edited my previous post to add a link..... take a look

When parents have a 40 year old child living on their property in a mobile home, growing pot on their property and not contributing to rent, utilities, etc.... it is usually a very long pattern of parenting from a position of fear...

H and I learned to parent from a position of STRENGTH ... and that really made a huge difference.
Pep

BEATLEMANIA

I AM old enough!

I saw "the boys" in person when I was 15....

I was one of the hysterical screaming, weeping girls at the concert in San Francisco.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have some of my Beatle "stuff" from the 60s.

Our 18-year-old son, L. , is a HUGE Beatles fan. When I spoke to him on the phone 2 days ago, he told me all about the Harrison CD he bought... and how wonderful it is.

Our 2 kids actually argue with each other about which one of them is going to inherit my original (now carefully framed) Beatles poster !!! ~LOL~

My Beatlemaniac days are fond memories.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am now 6 for 6 with "major" injuries and whether they really needed the ER or not: no fracture no nothing, just swelling and pain. (To top it off, he wanted a CAT scan too!) Didn't get home til about 3 this morning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am confused - isn't it a GOOD thing that he wasn't seriously injured? It seems to me that it is a no brainer that you should go to the ER if you get hit in the neck by a puck. I would be very upset that he played first, though.

And why would you expect a child to leave home at 20, when most would still be a junior or a sophomore in college? And most kids are forced to come home for awhile after college - how else do they ever pay off 15 or 30 thousand dollars worth of college debt when it is almost impossible to get a job paying much more that 20-25 grand right out of college. So many kids are just juggling multiple part time jobs, none of which offer health insurance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am now 6 for 6 with "major" injuries and whether they really needed the ER or not: no fracture no nothing, just swelling and pain. (To top it off, he wanted a CAT scan too!) Didn't get home til about 3 this morning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am confused - isn't it a GOOD thing that he wasn't seriously injured? It seems to me that it is a no brainer that you should go to the ER if you get hit in the neck by a puck. I would be very upset that he played first, though.

And why would you expect a child to leave home at 20, when most would still be a junior or a sophomore in college? And most kids are forced to come home for awhile after college - how else do they ever pay off 15 or 30 thousand dollars worth of college debt when it is almost impossible to get a job paying much more that 20-25 grand right out of college. So many kids are just juggling multiple part time jobs, none of which offer health insurance. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> HUH?

I left home at 17 because I thought I was GROWN and wanted to make my own decisions. Nellie you sound sort of overprotective, and NO I don't think gettin hit with a hockey puck in the neck requires a CAT SCAN. Now getting with a hockey stick on a non-helmet covered head..YES!

These boards are strange sometimes...strange indeed.

EDITED) for my instant Graemlin insertion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

LINY

dealing with teenagers is not fun all the time is it?
Listening to you post about your son brought such a smile to my face, you sounded so much like my old man!
There does seem to be real divide between you & your oldest LINY right now. I suggest it is the divide of experience and drive and your assurity of your place in the world, he has no idea, perhaps no hope in some way. I know you may find that hard to understand but there are young people who go throu this.
It seems that all they do is spend time pushing your buttons.
I do think you need to separate your LINY parent from LINY spouse & both of those from LINY business.
It sounds like he would only have to look sideways at you and you would explode right now, thats not good for either of you.
So is he the cause or the symptom?

Dont laugh but I was so much like him... I didn't turn out TOO bad if you dont include being shot up a few times and few AWOLs & .. well we aren't discussing me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know LINY sometimes these young adults today have no idea what they want, they close off from the world, dont want to engage in anything, not even family. MMM I heard that somewhere before.. They seem like selfish, lazy, self centred little so & so's....... they are in their actions I think..but they dont see it... they see a parent wanting CONTROL. You know all rights no responsibility..MMmmmm heard that somewhere before too..
The fine line between encouraging and engendering responsibility or directing & controllimg....... ah parenting is so much fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You think its hard now, wait until YOUR daughters get to 17/18 and are going out with a succession of hopeless loser jerks ... speaking of which why in hell isn't she home at 1.15 in the damn morning?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

You know what happened to us LINY dont you?
we got kids much like we were when we were around the same age...whats worse...I dont know about you but I've turned into my Dad!!!!
Oh crikey.
I bet anything you like you have found yourself saying things exactly like your Dad did to you.
I do it all the time.

Plan A ing your kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mmmm I suppose I couldn't do a Plan B could I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Theres one thing I picked up though that may help when you when they push the buttons one too many times..... I step back even if I have to walk outside for a moment and then engage them in the issue, not my feelings. I dont know if it will ever work but I hope that one day perhaps when they hold their firstborn in their hands they will say thanks for being my Dad.

Speaking of which guess whos just pulled up into the driveway at 1.43am ...plan A or the cricket bat? I feel like the cricket bat but that wont be needed now as Mum has just got out of bed and is waiting by the door arms folded ...mmm I'm getting out of here it ain't going to be pretty..... once the screaming has stopped I'll do my 'worrying, responsibility etc' talk thing.

Can I ground her until shes ..oh 35 or so????

GOOD LUCK LINY!!

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
I am confused - isn't it a GOOD thing that he wasn't seriously injured? It seems to me that it is a no brainer that you should go to the ER if you get hit in the neck by a puck. I would be very upset that he played first, though.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nellie, only once has it been an injury that required "real" medical attention. If you knew my son, you know what I'd be talking about. "Oh, woe is me"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And why would you expect a child to leave home at 20, when most would still be a junior or a sophomore in college? And most kids are forced to come home for awhile after college - how else do they ever pay off 15 or 30 thousand dollars worth of college debt when it is almost impossible to get a job paying much more that 20-25 grand right out of college. So many kids are just juggling multiple part time jobs, none of which offer health insurance.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, it was sarcasm. Second, college? HA! I'm assuming you didn't read my entire post--he's repeating his senior year.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aussie2:
You know fm sometimes these young adults today have no idea what they want, they close off from the world, dont want to engage in anything, not even family. MMM I heard that somewhere before.. They seem like selfish, lazy, self centred little so & so's....... they are in their actions I think..but they dont see it... they see a parent wanting CONTROL. You know all rights no responsibility..MMmmmm heard that somewhere before too..
The fine line between encouraging and engendering responsibility or directing & controllimg....... ah parenting is so much fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Plan A ing your kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mmmm I suppose I couldn't do a Plan B could I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aussie...that summed up teens pretty good!

And I am so glad someone else mentioned "the" plans! Brown and discussed this last night, as in matter of fact!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And why would you expect a child to leave home at 20, when most would still be a junior or a sophomore in college? And most kids are forced to come home for awhile after college - how else do they ever pay off 15 or 30 thousand dollars worth of college debt when it is almost impossible to get a job paying much more that 20-25 grand right out of college. So many kids are just juggling multiple part time jobs, none of which offer health insurance.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well..... situation is certainly ~different~ if a child over 18 is working hard to achieve goals, and is willing to live peacefully under the parent's roof isn't it?

Our son was discharged from the last residential treatment home the day before he turned 18.... our convo went something like this

L... "You and Dad have really stupid house rules"

Me... "I know. Our rules are stupid in your eyes. But we will enforce them anyway."

L..."But I won't follow stupid rules, you get that? You can't make me."

Me... "I know. Lucky you, you're 18 and don't have to live with us anymore."

L... "I can't stand your stupid rules!"

Me..."Lucky you, you don't have to live here."

L..."Where am I supposed to live then!" (yelling)

Me... "You can live anywhere that you like, wherever you like the rules."

L..."How am I supposed to do that?"

Me..."I don't know. It's up to you."

L..."But why can't you just change the stupid rules so I can stay with you?"

Me..."We like our rules."

L..."They're stupid."

Me..."Lucky you, you don't have to live here and follow our rules anymore. You're a free man."

and so on and so on..... I held my ground, letting him know HE was making this decision.... where to live.... and I also was instructed to NEVER defend out house rules.... the just "are". No defense needed.

Pep