Hello, this is my first post here although I've been visiting often the last month of so. I wish I had found this site and the info before D-day as I have made some big mistakes in dealing with everything.

I went out of town last March to visit family that lives 10 hrs from where we live. I drove. I thought it odd that my husband was so calm when I told him I needed to take kids back home to visit, but didn't get too suspicious as My oldest (17) would be staying home also. He seemed eager for us to go and never really asked to go with us.

I had needed this trip to sort out how I felt about my marriage and decide if I should divorce him or committ again and try to salvage a broken relationship. He had been acting different since the summer/fall before, but I never thought of an affair as the reason, but thought we had just been growing apart for a long time and it was dead or dying - but knew I could not continue to live as we were living.

two days before we were to head back home, on St Patricks day, I called my 17yr old around 11:30pm and he mentioned his step-dad my H hadn't been home all evening and was still not there. I knew in my soul at that moment he was with someone else. He had never in 7 yrs of marriage went out that late with anyone (guy or otherwise) and never did he ever go out at all without letting me know where he would be....and with whom. Needless to say, I was frantically calling his cell phone # for the next 5 or 6 hours (which was going straight to voicemail) and leaving messages. He never called me back. He didn't get home til around 5 or 6 am as best I have figured out. He did call me for a brief talk the next morning around 10am saying he was at bar with friends from work and drank too much, then went home and passed out. This killed me as I had just decided not 24hrs prior that I still loved him and was going to return home and rebuild my marriage and love the hell out of this man!

Well upon my return, all hell had literally already broken loose. He had, while I was away Took a $1500. loan on his 401k and bought a new stereo system for his new truck he had just gotten a few months before. He spent maybe 600 or 700 on that and never could explain where the rest of the money went (still cant). Included with this purchase was a huge subwoofer that filled the back of the cab, so our children could no longer fit into his truck, and he didn't have to have them tag along (like he normally would) as they couldnt ride safely anymore.

The night we got back into town he wasn't even home to see his 3 children that he hadn't seen in 7 days. said was at movies with friends from work and didn't get home til midnight.

He began coming home after 9pm daily, going straight up to bedroom and not talking to me or kids if they were awake. He suddenly began taking wallet, truck keys, and cell phone up to bed instead of leaving them on the table in Entry Hall. He began buying clothing, especially shoes, underware, and socks. He started caring more about his appearance and even dieting. Also concerned about length of penis as I saw a bookmark for male enlargement methods. He started taking our daughter to school in the mornings at his request which meant getting up 1 1/2 hrs earlier, saying he needed to get to work earlier (per his boss), he started "Playing basketball 2x per week for 5 HOURS!!! after work, and carrying a bag with a change of clothing. His sudden interest in hunting from the fall of the previous year became consuming as he went every other weekend, or sometimes would take a Th/Fri off and say going hunting with a "guy from work" - there was also a couple camping trips thrown in for good measure. I knew what was going on as he wasn't being too careful with his behavior to me and his sudden and dramatic disappearances from home. I just didn't know who, how long, or how to get proof.

So, for the next almost 2 months I kept a daily log of his comming and going, where he said he was, who he said he was with, how he treated me and kids when he decided to be at home, and when he contacted me and how. Then when the cell bill came, I took the calendar I kept and started to analize it all. Then I went to see an attorney and filed for divorce! After I filed, I confronted him with evidence and he still denied, denied, denied! This was on Mothers Day weekend, and while he was denying and telling me he didn't want a divorce, he was off buying a 4wheeler and not getting me one dang thing for mothers day. He didn't take the kids to even pick out a card for me.

Well, one of the first things I did was grab his cell phone while he was showering one morning and go through and write down all the #'s, then I called the one marked "L" and "H" which were his OW and the hotel 3hrs away that they spent the weekends at. I talked to the Motel clerk and said, "Hey I think my husbands cheating, here are the dates I need checked and here is her name and his name" each time he was hunting/camping one of them was checked into the motel. There was my undeniable proof. I confronted, he admitted it all.

Then he told me the standard stuff, he didn't love her, he loved me, he wanted to stay married, didn't want to leave house, kids, stuff. He would end it. In fact said it was already over since I had called her to tell her I loved my husband and she needed to back off as long as we were still married and living in same house. I told her if he left...if he wanted her, she could have him but back off and let him make the decision without her help.

He begged me to not divorce him said he'd do whatever it took, go to counseling even. This lasted about 4 days. 4 days of him lying around miserable, telling me how bad we were together, how much better off I'd be without him, how I was a better person than he was, I deserved more. That he didn't know what he wanted...blah blah blah - then after 5 days he says "Maybe we should separate" I knew this meant he wasn't done with her, sleeping with her, having this relationship with her.....so I told him since the next day was payday - to pack his **** and leave. He was on the couch that night and when he got home next day he packed and left. Went to a motel, where she joined him after she was done at the bar...about 2 am. I know because I listened to his voicemail (I guessed code) and she was like....I'll be to motel at 2am blah blah

He came knocking the next morning and I was so frantic thinking I had driven him into her arms I let him back in.....

Then he swore again it was over, but this time said he loved me because I was mother of his children but wasn't in love with me. Said it wasn't the same and didn't know if it ever could be....I bugged the computers in the house and guessed the code for his voicemail at work because I wasn't going to be tricked and lied to again. I also called her a couple more times which made his so angry...saying that every time I call her it just gives her new reasons to contact him.

Within a couple weeks I had seen one email from him to her saying basically this is the last time I'm going to contact you, but know I love you...and care for you, you made me happy then goes on to tell her that it is almost asurred that he and I would be divorcing soon (after he's been begging me not to divorce him) ??? then 6 days later he went to the Alltel website and sent her a text message saying he was in love with her and that he thinks of her, but not to call his cell phone or text message. I printed this one out and confronted him asking him if he had sent her a text message, he looked me in the eye and lied. I pulled it out and read it aloud, then he said that yes he sent it, but didn't mean it....that he didn't want to hurt her and cause her to go off at work and tell anyone because he'd be so embarrassed he'd have to quit his job. She is blue collar he is white collar office and she is 13 years older! I told him I din't believe him and wanted him out. He begged, said he wouldn't be with her even if I divorced him and wouldn't live with her or keep seeing her.

Anyhow, he then knew the computers were bugged and ceased contacting her in any way from home.

We took a family vacation a few weeks later and during our trip I called and checked his messages at work only to hear her still calling with "I need to see you" "You are never f'ing available!" and other such messages. He swears it is over, but she sometimes still calls, but he cannot control what she does. I screwed up on this because now he knows I listen to his voicemails.

I've demanded we move, but my 17 yr old is in his senior year and even if my husband said he would (which he says he will not start over in his career somewhere else) it would be to unfair to my son.

So here I sit, he is still working in the same building as her - after d-day she moved 2 minutes from where they work. Everything between us is great but as soon as he leaves, my mind goes crazy, I can't stop checking his messages, email, messeger, and everything else I can access...I've even paid lots of $$ online to get copies of her phone records....which confirm she is still calling him at work!!!

I don't want to kick him out again and take the chance of driving him into her arms, but he still doens't seem to be honest with me as he says they aren't taking but her phone records show she calls him. He says the A started in March when I was out of town, but i suspect they had a long standing EA prior to that as I think it is weird that an A that lasted 1 1/2 months before D-Day, should still be lingering with contact between them. He swears he doesn't see her outside of work or talk to her outside work. Things feel better then ever between us, he is now affectionate and loving with me and we are sexually active 5 or 6 out 7 days a week, I just feel like they probably aren't sleeping together, but are still talking!!!

Where do I go from here - keep plan A going and building love between us and just try not to think of if she and he are still involved??? Do I snoop even more trying to find proof of further involvement?? I am more in love with him than I've ever been. He is home regularly and tells me where he is and who he's with. We've been spending lots of time together.......

anyone?

<small>[ December 20, 2004, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: 1confusedBS ]</small>

I just wanted to add that since I have her phone records for the last 5/6 months, I've thought about the possibility of contacting HR dept where they work, and although she doesn't report to him, it is proof that she is using her cell phone during work time (some times up to 9 times a day) to contact him on his work #. I could tell them that he is trying to end it and she is harassing him.

I think as far as his job goes this would be the only way to cause a problem and open it up to the light of day since she doesn't work under him and there isn't a policy about relationships with coworkers.

well, nobody ever did give me any advice....

that's ok, I think I'll just update this thread and use it as my running journal of questions and stuff.

Feel free to give any/all advice or reality checks (no 2x4's please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )


Things have been good between WS and I since this post a couple months ago. In fact the truth is that things between he and I are probably better than at any other time in our Marriage.

A couple things I want to talk about but wanted to preface it with this: I don't think my WS is a cake eater, or at least I'd like to believe he is not. The problem is that we cannot move until next summer when my oldest son graduates HS and goes away to college (just offered full scholorship to his 1st choice college!!) - I absolutely won't F up his senior year with our garbage! OW still tries to contact WS. He swears that he deletes emails and doesn't respond, that he tells her not to call him when she does and doesn't return phone calls if she leaves a message. Lately her attempts at contact have been slowly growing further apart. I think we sit at about 2x a month now that she calls or emails. He told me a few months back that he would tell me if they had contact, but only does if I have evidence - then admits it.

The last contact I saw was about a week ago, I found a note in his work pants pocket written on 3 post it notes, it reads:

"I have this toy that I play with @ night when I think of you. I try not to play with it but I have to, just to get release. I see your eyes and call your name. I came so hard! How's that?"

I immediately took it and walked into the room he was in and just stood there with it in my hands looking at him. He looked at the note then at me and said, "That was on my desk when I got into work this morning"

I said nothing, just sat down across from him and stared at him.

he says, "I don't know why she left it on my desk, there is nothing happening between us, it is over with her"

still I was silent, just staring blankly at him

he says, "she tries contact every couple weeks, I don't respond. This is first time she left a note on my desk" then says, "BS - I would never hurt you like that again, there is nothing going on, I have done nothing to encourage it, I can't control what she does- only what I do and I am doing nothing wrong"

He then told me he loved me, only wanted me, and stuff like that.

I said: Well, if you were still seeing her, I'm sure you wouldn't admit it, so there is my dilema.....then I asked him if he wanted his note and said no, so I stuck it in with the rest of my evidence in my A file....

I want to believe him but of course I don't because he has lied in the past. He swore again he would tell me if there was any further contact but he has said that before also.

Things are so good with us, sex is great and often, he is affectionate and loving both verbally and physically, he is loving and helpful with our kids, he is at home after work and on weekends, doesn't go anywhere without verifying with me. So when I look at his actions...it enforces everything he says - but this F***ing note has really set me back a ways.

Maybe I need a reality check and if so please give it, but mostly I just feel as though I have no idea what the truth is or ins't any more.

Hi confused, I am sorry you here and am even sorrier that no one responded to you initial post. You must have posted at a slow time, that is the only explanation I can think of. Welcome aboard.

We have another member who is in the same position you are with a WS who works with the OP. He thought it was over but just discovered that it wasn't. I am going to repost my words that I said to him about the WS working with the OP:

First off let me explain something about affairs. Affairs are like addictions. And like addictions, the only way a person can recover is if they ABSTAIN and avoid the subject of their addiction.

Can you imagine a newly sober alcoholic going into the bar every night and sitting in front of a beer but cannot touch it? He thinks of nothing but that beer and how wonderful it would taste. He is obsessed with that beer and thinks of nothing else in his white knuckle effort to NOT take a drink. Eventually, though, the inevitable weak moment overtakes him and he grabs that beer.

It is the same with your W. She cannot recover as long as there is any contact. She cannot withdraw from her addiction as long as she sees him. Contact is contact and calling it "professional" is nothing more than an excuse to continue contact.

She can never recover this way and it is probably just a matter of time until she caves in a weak moment. Your marriage will never recover with this contact. And every time that she sees him, puts YOU back to Day 1 of recovery.

You are left to live in daily fear and your only hope is the WORD of an untrustworthy person that she is doing nothing wrong. Every day, you have to HOPE that this untrustworthy person will be trustworthy. What a hell of a way to live, DD.

Living like that is probably just as painful as D-Day because you are dying the death of a thousand cuts.

In short, this is why Harley INSISTS that all contact must end, EVEN if you have to move across the country. Please think about this, DaltonDad.

here is what Dr Harley says about continued contact:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure. "

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

When it rains it pours! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Something you can ask him to do NOW is to send her a no contact letter asking her to NEVER EVER contact him again. This should be written together and sent by you to her. In your case, I think it might be helpful if he tells her that her continued harrassment might result in legal action [a restraining order, etc]

His willingness to send this letter will go a long way in helping you restore trust and will show you where his head really is.

Here are some sample nc letters:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018918

All I can say is your very lucky he still wants to be with you and as I have been told here NC
is very important because it opens him up to withdrawl from you If he thinks he loves her.
My husband is on the other side saying he loves her and hes not in love with me. gone 7 days now and thinks he justified in what hes doing.
My prayers are with you, check with your local church sometimes they have free consuling for couples.
Hope you and your family become whole again very soon. Keep on being as understanding as you can.

1confused:

First of all, I'm sorry that no one posted on your thread 2 months ago. If I had seen it, I would have said something. Obviously you were reaching out for help, or just for opinions and you didn't get it, and for that, I feel badly.

Second, are you and your H in marriage counseling? Are you in counseling for yourself? There are obvious trust issues here, and even if you're on the right path concerning your marriage, it'll be hard to repair it without help.

Third, I agree about your H seeing this OW at work. It's an impossible situation. It's probably killing her to see him. She's probably still hopeful. I can easily see things from her eyes, because I was the WW in my scenario, and my lover left me. We *do* live a country apart, but I had residual feelings for her, and I probably would have done what your OW is doing. It's probably hard for her to conceive that it's over, when your husband had those feelings for her. She's probably confused and can't understand why she can't have things back with him. I totally can relate. I can't imagine how hard it would be for her to end it with him being in the same office building. Think about it. Even under the BEST circumstances (having them both agree to end it), they'd have to face each other and it would be hard.

Can your H get another job? Can he be relocated to another building? Something should be done to separate them, or he'll be faced with the reminders and temptations of the A. This period is very hard for him, the OW and for you, and seeing her daily makes it nearly impossible to heal.

I wish you lots of luck. I admire you for doing the groundwork investigation that you did. I know nothing about that, but it sounds almost illegal to have gotten the OW's phone records! I don't know of any company that would provide that service!

Good luck and let us know how things are going.

CC

Thank you all for the replies.

We did go to counseling together and IC for me. I stopped after the counselor (the one my PCP referred me to) said to me in IC:

"If you are happy w/husband and the quality of your marriage is better and you feel loved by your husband, does it really matter if your husband see's the OW every now and then. Would you rather be married to an unhappy hostile person who's given up the OW or a happy loving husband who has a bit on the side?"

I swear he said this!!! I said neither of those was acceptable to me, and I thought that we were in counseling to make sure neither of those options were the outcome!!

I want to do phone counseling with the MB but cannot afford it for a couple of weeks, since finding out about the affair I have barely worked (I am self employed and work from home) and my income has dropped dramatically!

Melody has given great advice and words of help. One other thing I would add is that he should let her know that if she continues to contact him not only can and will he look into legal action for harrassment, but he will also present the issue of sexual harrassment (i.e. the note left on his desk). This can be presented to HER boss. I don't think they will look lightly on that. Maybe, just maybe, she would lose her job and he won't have to deal with her.

In any event, I'm sorry I don't have time to offer more. Keep writing though, the people here are a great help. Hugs to you.

1Confused,

Do you know if this woman is married? If so, have you told her hsuband about the A? Exposing the affair to your H's job is also something you should definitely consider.

You said that you are concerned that if you kick him out, he'll fly right into her arms. Maybe that's not a bad thing, at this point. There are a lot of posts here about how As fall apart when they are exposed to the light of day. If he had to deal with her on a day-to-day basis, not simply as the object of some love fantasy, he may come to see things differently.

I'm not expert at this and others may have varying opinions. But it seems to me that you are at the point where you need to start Plan B.

I told him months ago while we were on vacation and I had called and listened to his messages and she had left some pretty pissy messages on his voicemail, that if he didn't demand she stop contact I'd out him at the office, I'd tell his boss and coworkers so he'd either be so embarrassed he'd quit or he'd get fired.

He and OW don't work together per se, they work in same building on different floors and rarely run into each other. He doesn't have cause to go to her area and vise versa.

I know we need to move. I just WILL NOT screw up my 17 yr old like that. He is a very unselfish child and has said to me...."Mom, do what you need to do to make things better so you can be happy, I have friends whose parents will let me stay with them until schools out...."

But, this is his senior year, he deserves to have graduation parties and other fun stuff that parents are suposed to do for their kids, can't do that 500 miles away now can I???

I know that after schools out, I will move. I've told WH this and although it doesn't make him particularly happy he knows I am leaving with or without him. I will not stay beyond next summer. I've told him he better have a different job by then, and I will relocate with him and new job, or I will go wherever I want and leave him here. He knows.

ok, here is what my husband has said, truth or lie, you decide (I know I can't)

* affair not about OW or feelings for her, affair about me and him
* he only thinks of OW when I bring her up
* OW is 13 years older, he says BS in four years OW will be 50, what the F*** do I want with a 50 yr old woman??? says he knows there would never be a future for them
* He thought I didn't want him and didn't act as though I wanted to be around him, she wanted to be with him....made it really easy to be with her but doesn't mean he ever felt anything for her beyond sexual
* Even if we divorce, he wouldn't have a R with OW, she is NOT the type of someone he would want his business associates, friends, and coworkers to know he'd been with - ashamed i guess
* Says his hope is that she finds someone and leaves him alone, or better yet moves and quits so he doesn't have to

1confused,

Don't believe anything your H says about the OW. Remember, he's trying to protect that relationship and to throw you off the track.

Is the OW married? If you don't know, find out. And then, tell her husband.

Andrew -

Her divorce was final last July - I think

She left her H last October, I know because the PI i hired last spring pulled the court records.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"If you are happy w/husband and the quality of your marriage is better and you feel loved by your husband, does it really matter if your husband see's the OW every now and then. Would you rather be married to an unhappy hostile person who's given up the OW or a happy loving husband who has a bit on the side?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please tell me there is a firing squad out there for these types of ICs!!!!!!!

1confusedBB - your H MUST get a new job. He MUST write a NC letter WITH YOU. If he wants to salvage your marriage and means all that he has said, then he sould have no problem with doing these things. I can understand your not wanting to move until your son graduates. BUT in the meantime, your H must find a new job so that the chance of contact is NIL.

Good luck - keep posting!

Hugs,
Frags

after the note I said that i thought he needed to write her a letter to reiterate that it was over and that contact needs to stop entirely, tell her he will not leave his family and loves us. Told him I must read it and mail it.

He said, "That's a good idea", he didn't have a problem with it. We haven't talked about it since. But I will bring it up again tonight and have him write it this weekend.

He has told me that in her emails she writes about how she is seeing a psychiatrist and is on AD's. He says he doesn't wish her any ill will, but doens't have any lingering feelings except guilt. He feels he has caused her to be in this state, and I'm sure that is the reaction she wants.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">* affair not about OW or feelings for her, affair about me and him
* he only thinks of OW when I bring her up
* OW is 13 years older, he says BS in four years OW will be 50, what the F*** do I want with a 50 yr old woman??? says he knows there would never be a future for them
* He thought I didn't want him and didn't act as though I wanted to be around him, she wanted to be with him....made it really easy to be with her but doesn't mean he ever felt anything for her beyond sexual
* Even if we divorce, he wouldn't have a R with OW, she is NOT the type of someone he would want his business associates, friends, and coworkers to know he'd been with - ashamed i guess
* Says his hope is that she finds someone and leaves him alone, or better yet moves and quits so he doesn't have to

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell him that is all nice and good, but he needs to put a stop to her contact. You CAN'T recover until he stops the contact and starts protecting you. The no contact letter is a very healing gesture that helps you recover. Everytime the OW contacts him again, you are put back to D-Day again.

He must do everything in his power to PROTECT YOU.

The affair most certainly is about the OW, it is silly to say otherwise. It may have resulted from marital problems, but adultery does not solve problems it creates NEW ONES.

confused, the least he can do is send her the letter if you are willing to stay with him. This is not much to ask.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He thought I didn't want him and didn't act as though I wanted to be around him, she wanted to be with him....made it really easy to be with her but doesn't mean he ever felt anything for her beyond sexual</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is all great information for you to utilize in repairing you marriage. If feeling like this in the past would cause him to be vulnerable to an affair, it will do so in the future. I would suggest taking the emotional needs questionaires and getting the books Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. The problem in your marriage must be addressed and resolved.

P.S. if he is not willing to send this letter, then I would view that as a red flag and question his sincere committment to your marriage. The usual reasons for not sending the nc letter is because a) they are still in contact or b) the WS is still holding out hope.

I would also point out that you seem to place great merit on your husbands WORDS. You cannot go by the words of an untrustworthy person, confused. You must go by their ACTIONS.

If he is really committed to the recovery of your marriage and the end of this affair, then he should be willing to TAKE ACTION to make that happen. Talk is cheap.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1confusedBS:
<strong>

He said, "That's a good idea", he didn't have a problem with it. We haven't talked about it since. But I will bring it up again tonight and have him write it this weekend.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dang! you mean I typed those last 2 posts for nothing?? lol! Ok, this sounds really good. Another suggestion I have is that YOU CALL her up if she does not stop contact. That will shake her bake!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just wanted to add a comment about your son finishing school. He says he can stay with a friend's family. If you could find a fine family to watch over him that would be lovely.

It is FAR more of a gift to try to do all you can to save your marriage with his dad than to give him parties and etc.

He knows it.....deep down YOU know it.