WxW brought our eldest to my office this a.m. He's having an allergic reaction to a wasp sting and been to the Dr. and didn't need to go back to school. It's my weekend and I could go ahead and take him so she brought him to me. Anyway, we were standing in the lobby and she was telling me what the Dr. had said and something that was going on with the youngest at school. She was looking waaaayyy off to the side and not at me as she was talking and almost started to cry. She said she couldn't look at me. I asked her if she wanted to talk about that and she just said no, finished telling about the kids and left. Whats up with that??? Also she has lost a bunch of weight that she didn't have to lose and looks like crap. My only thought is maybe she is feeling some guilt.?!. Could that be it? Could this be a sign of a crack in the fog? I have had a hard time talking to her at all since the first part of July when she admitted her A from 11 years ago for the first time and then called and apologized because I found out. The realization that it happened and the years of lies hurt too much. The apology because she got caught dosen't help anything. So other than the bare essential conversations about the kids we haven't talked at all. Is she starting to show remorse?

Jeff,

I am sorry but I don't know your story.

How long have your been divorced? Is your XW remarried, if yes for how long?

Thanks for asking Weaver. Things move a lot faster on this board than Divorced/ Divorcing where I usually hang out. I'll try to do a brief version of my story from what I've seen here, its pretty similar to many others.
MY WxW were together 22 years and married 17. January 26th this year at 10:00 a.m. my W walked into my office told me she had moved out, wasn't happy, and wanted us to get a divorce. She took the kids, DS9 and DS8, to a house she had rented about six blocks away. I got my Dv papers 2 days later. I was unaware we had a problem. I started doing some digging at the advice of my attorney and found 2 mutual friends that she had told she had an A about 11 years ago, neither suspected anything current. A little more digging and I had the current OM's occupation, address, 3 phone numbers and age. Lots of fog talk and outrageous lies about me. Against the advice of my shrink, attorney, friends, and everyone here, I had a brief fling. Our Dv was final August 2nd, the only thing contested was custody. There was an attorney ad litem appointed to represent the kids. My youngest sat in his mothers lap and told the ad litem that he wants to live with me. My oldest took the stand and told the judge he wants to live with me. Because I worked my a$$ off so she could stay home the first 4 years with the kids, the judge said that she was the primary caregiver and gave them to her. I get to give her 1/4 of my paycheck to see my kids 2 days out of 14. The event described above was one of the few times she has been anything other than bubbly and happy through out this ordeal, the only time since Dv was final.
WxW has not remarried still makes the 2 hour drive to OM's house anytime I have the kids, tomorrow is day 1 of week 7 since Dv was final.

First of all I want to say I am very sorry for what has happened. What a tremendous, painful shock.

I am assuming that since you are here you would like another chance at your marriage.

I am not one of the vets, but my take given what little I know from what you post is that there could very well be trouble for your wife. Hard cold reality is settling in. She is realizing now what life is like without you, and what life is like when she has to fend for herself. Her decision seems like it was unbelievably sudden, I would question why on that. Was she having trouble with the OM? And needing to do something drastic to hang onto him?

And yes fog is probably lifting.

I would go into Plan A, if you haven't already. Take advantage of every opportunity you have to charm your wife's butt off. But don't push. Show her now just what she has lost.

Are you in Plan A, and if so how long and how did it go?

I'm so sorry that you got divorced so quickly. Sounds like you didn't have time to think straight (I realise this was not your fault). Obviously, something is not going so well in LaLa Land for your WxW. There must have been some issues that caused problems in the marriage and maybe now, in hindsight, you can recognise that. My WH's A also hit me like a bolt from the blue, but in retrospect, I can see we were stagnant for at least 3 years prior to his going. Maybe, just maybe, the full realisation and impact of her actions are sinking in. I hope your son is fine. Good luck.

Thanks for the sympathy Weaver, you must have been close to something similar yourself, most people don't understand unless they have been there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am assuming that since you are here you would like another chance at your marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, yes and no. I would love to have the marriage I thought I had back with a few minor changes. But the person I thought I was married to was just a fantasy of mine, I have no interest in being remarried to my real WxW. The reason I'm asking what is going on with her now is because I'm one of those masochistic idiots that thinks he has to know every detail about what happened and when and why. Her current OM doesn't concern me as much ast the first one I know of. The one that she lied about for 11 years is the one that wakes me up in the wee hours of the morning with the knotted stomach. Now, I can't talk to her except the bare minimum of conversation about the kids and then it is very difficult for me to be civil. I don't see it getting any better until she can sit down with me and tell me the truth and answer all my questions. I realize that will probably never happen. When we had depositions, she knew from my witness list that I had 2 witnesses that would testify that she had admitted her A to them. She was busted and she knew it. So when my attorney asked the question, I heard her admit it for the first time. The next night she called me for the first time since move out day and apologized because I found out. Not that it happened or that she lied about it for all those years but because she got caught. I doubt that someone that thinks that way and has had so much practice at lying would ever give up the truth. But in the remote chance that it could happen, I know it won't be while she is still in the fog of her current A. I am curious to know if maybe this could be a sign of the begining of the end of it.

Thanks Tummytuck, DS is doing better and the swelling has gone down quite abit. Sorry to hear you got struck by lightening too.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There must have been some issues that caused problems in the marriage and maybe now, in hindsight, you can recognise that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not going to try to tell you that being married to Jeff was a day at the beach but it wasn't all that bad. And, hey if we have a problem, give me a clue. Maybe we could fix it. Moving out to persue an A seems a little too drastic a solution. It did happen pretty quick but if we could have agreed on custody (I tried to talk her into full joint custody) it could have been over in March.

Well until some FWW's jump in here -

Maybe it is all catching up with her now. Unless she is a sociopath she is going to have to come to terms with what she has done. There is no way around it, we all end up paying the piper sooner or later.

Someone who can live a lie for 11 years is beyond my scope of experience, however there are many on here who have been through it. The FWW's on here are very remorseful and have gone through incredible pain and growth once the fog lifted.

Your WxW is not a monster so she is inveriably going to take a huge fall. Maybe it is beginning now.

You now have the tools and the insight to have a great relationship with someone, given that you have taken a cold hard look at the part your played in all of this, and made changes which you need to make, as we all do.

And why can't it be with your WxW? Given that she goes through what she needs to go through now. Which is going to be crushing to her when it happens.

I really have nothing to offer you except that I like to see people stay together especially when they have kids together, and still (even possibly) love each other.

I guess the next few weeks will probably give you some more insight into her frame of mind. Or you could try and talk to her, without blaming - with honest loving concern.

Could you muster that, given all that she has put you through?

Weaver:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your WxW is not a monster </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wanna bet? Just kidding, I don't gamble.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You now have the tools and the insight to have a great relationship with someone, given that you have taken a cold hard look at the part your played in all of this, and made changes which you need to make, as we all do.
And why can't it be with your WxW? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The why is another long story. Take out the custody issue and I can't remember ever being happier. I would like to be this happy with someone else and I even have a certain someone in mind but it ain't WxW. Too soon I know, I know, I know,.........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really have nothing to offer you except that I like to see people stay together especially when they have kids together, and still (even possibly) love each other.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like to see people stay together too and it tears me up when I see a friend having marital problems and the D word is used. The kid aspect adds a whole other dimension.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess the next few weeks will probably give you some more insight into her frame of mind. Or you could try and talk to her, without blaming - with honest loving concern.
Could you muster that, given all that she has put you through? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope the next few weeks provide more insight, patience is one of those things I need to work on. I might could talk without blaming, don't know how to be anything other than honest, the loving concern ship has sailed.

Ok, now I'm laughing - touche'


Good luck on the new possibility, it is only too soon if you are still carrying around a lot of anger and unresolved resentment towards your WxW, and it sounds like you might be.

Good for you and I mean that sincerely, but I do hope that someday you get to a place where you are concerned about the welfare of your WxW, if only because she is the mother of your kids and your loved her once.

dearjeff

I am a FWW and I do not know how she has lived with it for 11 years. I can say that what you have described that your X is looking like/going through I too have and currently experiencing. The guilt, the shame... There are times during the day when certain thoguhts cross my mind of what I have done to my H and OMW that I have to stop what I am doing- I become sick to my stomach and have to go somewhere to be alone to pull myself together. My H and I are trying to work through tis and like you he has found it hard to even look at me let alone speak to me and this was only after months of lying- not 11 years!
I don't know if this helps at all but just my thoughts....
22

Weaver:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Good luck on the new possibility, it is only too soon if you are still carrying around a lot of anger and unresolved resentment towards your WxW, and it sounds like you might be.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks. Anger and unresolved resentment. Uh, okay maybe a little. I am working on that though. And my new possibility is a mental health counselor, she has a way of pointing some of my issues out. We're taking it real slow, her choice, not mine of course.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Good for you and I mean that sincerely, but I do hope that someday you get to a place where you are concerned about the welfare of your WxW, if only because she is the mother of your kids and your loved her once. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks again but I'm not sure that ability is even in my gene pool.

f22,
Thanks for responding. I hope everything truly works out for the best for you, your H, and the others involved. The 11 year thing blows me away too. I think my guts would have rotted out. I guess the more you more practice you have lying the easier it gets. My take on the emotion I saw, the body language and the unhealthy amount of weight loss was that it might be guilt but I gave up on trying to figure her out myself months ago. My oldest told me today that she took them to the pediatrician last week and he kept telling her she needed to gain some weight and she kept saying I know, it just the stress of the divorce. I don't know why she would be stressed about that, it was what she wanted and she got everything she asked for.

dearjeff

I do agree- each time got a little easier to lie to my H. Then one day it hit me- the one person to whom I should be able to share anything with was the one person I had begun to disrespect and show more respect to the OM who in turn was lying to his W and he had a new baby at home. I am disgusted with me- OM complained about his wife's attention to him, lack of emotional connection, and on and on.. I should have thought about her side- SHE JUST HAD A BABY and he should support her but yet I took part in it. YUCK YUCK YUCK. Affairs are truly made of lies- I felt as if I cared for him, "loved him" but true love and respect would have been to walk away.
I love your qoute- I am adding it to my "book"- I carry a little when around so when I have my "ill" moments I have something to pull me back on track.
My thoughts and prayers are with you, your childern and your XW.
22

Hey DJ,

One "small" question. Your WXW had an affair 11 years ago. Was the affair over 11 years ago, or was it an 11 year affair? If it was over 11 years ago, what kind of wife was she since then?

Think about it. Trying to find out what happened this time, and how to correct it, might be the way to go.

RAG,
Supposedly it was over 11 years ago. He has since married and divorced. WxW became friends with his wife and we would go out to dinner with them occasionally, WxW and OM1 had their dirty little secret that OM's wife and I didn't know. OM1 and his wife divorced, WxW and she remained friends. OM1 eventually told his now ex, she confronted WxW, WxW admitted it to her. OM1's ex and my kids have both told them that they have seen them together since she moved out. OM1's ex has speculated that WxW buddied up to her to stay close to OM1, yet she and WxW have remained friends. Be watching for us on Jerry Springer..........

bump. Aw, come on FWWs give me your view.

Hey there DJ.
Sorry, not a WW (well, maybe by some people's definition...)
I would say it does seem like maybe it's catching up with her. Probably things aren't going so foggyliscious in Fogland right now and it has brough up some regrets...

Sounds to me like there's a little somethin' left for her deeeeeeep down in there somewhere? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> heehee

Actually, I know how you feel. I have to admit I find myself being curious about STBXWH, as far as wondering if he has realized anything yet, wondering if he has regrets, wondering what the heck has been and is going on in that HARD(and sick)head of his...

Hey fhl04! How are you doing?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry, not a WW (well, maybe by some people's definition...)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I started to ask how things are going there but we don't want to get that stirred up again do we?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sounds to me like there's a little somethin' left for her deeeeeeep down in there somewhere?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes there is. If I remember HS Biology correctly, or some science class somewhere along the way- it all seems so long ago, its called bile and its produced by the gall bladder. Its what leaves that really nasty taste when you retch and almost barf but it doesn't come on out. Is that deeeeeeep down enough? I have some anger issues I am working on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would say it does seem like maybe it's catching up with her. Probably things aren't going so foggyliscious in Fogland right now and it has brough up some regrets...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats kinda what I was thinking but I obviously haven't known how to read her for a long time. I posted this in Divorced/ Divorcing too and someone there suggested that maybe there was something going on with the kids that she was wanting to talk about. I kinda doubt that but what do I know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Actually, I know how you feel. I have to admit I find myself being curious about STBXWH,.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I didn't feel this way. I'm sure it hinders my moving on process. It would probably be easier on me if I could just let it go.

Deafjeff,

I lurk on your posts all the time.

They make me laugh out loud.

You have a great sense of humor! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks SerendipiT. I try to go by the old saying "Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone". Or is that laughs at you. WxW always told me that my sense of humor was one of the things that attracted her to me. I guess it wore off.

This is happening right now by email!!! The names have been changed to protect the guilty:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Jeff,
I know why I was having trouble looking you in the eye the other day.
I feel badly, no I feel very badly, for how things went between us. I apologize for my part of letting things go. Please someday accept my apology.

WxW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My response:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I kind of suspected that but I obviously have not known what was going on with you for a long time. I know I played a role in how things went before you moved out and I have apologized to you for that. I don't think I can do what you are asking until we can sit down and you can tell me the truth, all of it,and honestly answer the questions that I have. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her response:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am afraid to do that because I believe that you would go to the boys with anything that I tell you. And I know that you don't trust me, but now I don't trust you either. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My response:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't go to the boys with anything. If they ask, I tell them the truth. What did I ever do to make you not trust me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The plot thickens! Am I handling this okay?