HI to you. I read your post in a different topic first and thought, oh boy AD, i have to say hi to her, then i saw then next topic you posted in shortly after me and in that was a HI <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

so hi to you too. don't know how much you read, but H and I are doing really quite well these days. sounds like the same is true with you. wonderful isn't it??

keep smiling,

Karen
p.s. i know i said this before but you can't really say things like this too much. i really appreciated your support back then, meant a lot and made a difference. thanks!

Hi FL,

I just wanted to let you know that AD usually hangs over at the Pregnancy/Child forum giving great support and advice. She's a nice lady. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

thanks TMCM. she must read her sometimes because she posted her yesterday but thanks for the info, i'll have to go over there and send her a hi.

Hi Karen!

How sweet of you to make sure I see your greeting! Super-duper sweet of you to say thanks, it means a lot! It's nice to know if I've been of some help. I have much to give back, for all I've received from MB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do read a lot on GQ, but not enough to keep up with everyone. My main residence, I guess you could say is P/C as TMCM pointed out. It's really easy to keep up over there! Plus, that's where I landed when first I came to MB, (for obvious reasons). So, to be quite honest, I didn't know the exact status of your M at the moment. Last I heard your H was kissing you, and you were so relieved! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I did catch some of the back and forth calls w/ x-om, and near meetings, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have to say, I've learned more about all the M recovery concepts over here. So many smarty fartys!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I read here, and try to take back what I've learned, to the members over at P/C.

I'm so glad to hear things are going well for you! Oh, how are things on the career front? Get any of that ironed out?

Things are going well for my H and me too, and YES, it is wonderful. Not to say, there aren't still rough patches, to be sure. But, I'm hoping our deepest valleys, as far as our M is concerned, are all behind us.

Take good care, and I will try to be better about keeping up. Then you could quiz me sometime, just to make sure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

~ad

Ooooops, forgot...

Thanks for the compliment, TMCM! Bet you didn't think you'd ever refer to me as lady, when first I appeared?!?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by autumnday:
Bet you didn't think you'd ever refer to me as lady, when first I appeared?!?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not at all for you see to me a lady is a woman who acknowledges when she made poor choices and has the guts to accept the consequences and make restitution to the ones she has hurt the most because of those choices. And when it comes to guts you got them in spades. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Guts? Hmmmm...not too sure about that one. I know I ended up doing the right thing, but not without a lot of persuasion. I recall one particular sentence, from one particular coffee drinking poster, that helped me to find my "guts". It went something like this: "If you want to lie, and keep this covered up, it will someday be your own funeral..." I'm sure glad that poster had the guts to tell me like it was! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey, FL--just making sure you saw that I saw this thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

hi AD,

yes i saw your reply, nice to hear from you.

hey, i can bearly keep up with my situation, i certaintly DON"T expect anyone else too!!! but your sentiment is sweet, thanks.

I am struggling some right now in the area of keeping NC. and it's hard to have to admit that. especially under the watchful eyes of TMCM.

TMCM, no offense meant, at all!!! i know your view on people who have had more than 1 affair. correct me if i am wrong, but you basically don't think they are capable of change nor worth any S's time and effort. and that is fine, that you have that opinion. and i am assuming you still remember i am someone who has had more than 1 A. hence my difficutly with posting knowing you will read.

i also hate to have any BS read about a WS's struggle with NC. It cannot be very pleasant to read and must be very unsettling. hopefully not many are reading this since it is titled directly to you.

i am doing the right things when the urge comes. i am praying, i am thinking of H, i do not tell H directly that I am struggling with NC, that would be just plain mean. I did tell him when contact occured in july. it was the first time that i told him about contact. (between nov, 2003 and july 2004, there were a few (less than 10) other times contact occured and i did NOT tell H.) july has been the last time contact has occured. and the message sent to OM at that time was very strong. i told him this has to stop and i would be telling H about contact and if OM ever calls me again, i would be having my H return the call.

i am committed to telling my H if any contact occurs in the future, even if i am the one to initiate the contact. This behaviour has to stop and that is the ONLY way to ensure it does. I don't want to hurt my H anymore than i already have.

but the question that remains in me is WHY. Why am i struggling??? why do i have this urge to see how OM is. It's wrong, 100% It is behaviour that is NOT consistent with the type of person i want to be and yet i still struggle.

but i guess struggling in and of itself is not bad. as long as i keep my actions consistent with the type of person i want to be.

it is hard for me to stay in "today". JL told me once not to let the fact that i had an A define who i am. but that is exactly what i do still sometimes. i define myself by my past mistakes, not by who i am today.

i am going on faith that the struggling will get easier as long as i stick to the path. the longer NC is kept, the easier it will be. until such a day, (and even after) i need to protect myself from my weaknesses. and one way to do that is to be honest with myself that the weakness is there. but that with God's help, that weakness does not have to be acted on.

bumping up for you to see and to also add that i am feeling stronger today.

I am really hoping tonight H and I will have time to relax together. We bearly saw each other yesterday because of work and kid stuff. He was up today at 5:30am to golf though, so he may not be in the mood to give any attention tonight. I already told him last night I was needing some attention, even if it is just for us to just relax a bit with no kids, no tv and play a game of backgammon with music on. i will tell him again sometime today that I really need us time tonight. i've been told not to expect him to know what i need. so i will be clear. one game of backgammon with music on after the kids go to bed.

Thurs night he is going to go out with a friend, friday he has a golf outing that will probably go late, sunday he will be gone all day (5am-11pm) to go watch a golf tournament in Detroit (we are in chicago). If I don't get some of his attention tonight I think it will be harder to deal with all his other activities. I don't think it is asking too much to want his time tonight.

Have I convince you yet?? Have I convinced myself it is ok to need this?

ok, i'm rambling and i really need to do some work now.

keep smiling, Karen

FL,

When you married did you constantly think of past boy friends? I suspect not. I think you need to start focusing on your future not your past. If you do your OM will be just like many past BF's, he won't be part of you daily consciousness and you won't be triggered. The now and the future is where you need to focus. OM is a solution to NO part of the now or the future, just like a HS crush or middle school crush is today.

Your future lies with your family, your H, and in the worst case BEYOND. But OM is NOT part of that future, so turn forward look to your future whatever it may be.

God Bless,

JL

Karen~

No convincing necessary here. There's most definitely nothing wrong with needing more alone time together. I'm an overly enthusiastic cheerleader for the 15 hr. per week concept. Ra-Ra!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Why do you feel the need to convince yourself it's okay? Is it the whole WS thing--being afraid to ask for anything from your BS?

What did he say when you told him you were wanting some alone time tonight?

Does he always spend so much time apart from you doing his recreational things, or is this week an exception? I remember his golf being a bit of sore spot between you two in the past. Have you all talked about it? POJA'd it? Have you tried to share in his interests? He in yours? Big love bank contributions are usually made, when each spouse takes an interest in the other's hobbies. I know you already know that.

Since d-day, my H has cut back considerably on his outdoor sports. He still does a lot, and many still take him away from home, but he now is pickier as to what he does, so we're not apart so often as we were in the past. For instance, this summer, he cut short an annual trip by 4 days. He not only did this of his own accord, to spend time with me for the rest of his vacation, but because, guess what?? I was honest with him, and told him about how this particular trip, is difficult for me. Triggers all over the place, (read--spent time w/ x-om during this trip 2 years ago). He being the way he is, of course didn't want details, but he knew what I meant. I second guessed myself, about telling him this, like wondering if I was being snotty, or hurtful to him, using blackmail, whatever...all to get him to come home early. I think it was the right thing to do though. It was weighing heavily on my mind, and he could clearly see something was up with me.

I say all that to say, I think you should be honest with your H about your struggles with NC. It will be hard for him, but you need to tell him. First, so you're not keeping secrets, secondly, you are providing a way to be accountable. You're making it real. Just think how saying it out loud will sound? Not so glamorous, hey? You need to do it.

You know, if you can get the dillema of your most recent post solved, I believe a lot of the dillema of your post before it, will be solved.

Here's why--yes, you are doing some right things when the urge for C hits, BUT I truly believe the best thing to help get over this urge is to spend more time with your H. Let me guess, the urge hits, usually when alone--when not much else is going on in your life? Or maybe even when a lot is going on--but it's stressful things that are going on, thus you kinda just want to run?

Let your H in on your struggles. Have a heartfelt conversation with him.

My heart goes out to you Karen, I can truly empathize with you. If it weren't for my A ending in a P, I honestly don't know where I'd be today. I might just be in the same place you are, facing the same NC struggles. I might even still be in the A, (God forbid). Who knows? The P was an instant fog lifter, and fantasy burner. I struggled with withdrawal, as most do, and even had thoughts of C for the first couple months. However, H and I spent so much alone time together, and continue to do so. Plus, and this may not sound quite right, but with a baby to care for, who the hell has the time to think about x-om? I guess Karen, a mix of time with H, and busy-ness is a good combination to keep your mind, (and of course you, yourself), from going to places it shouldn't.

Now look who rambled? Unfortunately, not a rare thing for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Regards,
~ad

***edited to insert the word home after come and before early. But not till after I LOL'd at myself! Fruedian slip???***

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
I am struggling some right now in the area of keeping NC. and it's hard to have to admit that. especially under the watchful eyes of TMCM.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Better to admit it than to try to hide it. Your honesty with your H and with yourself is what can prevent you from falling back into contact with the OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM, no offense meant, at all!!! i know your view on people who have had more than 1 affair. correct me if i am wrong, but you basically don't think they are capable of change nor worth any S's time and effort. and that is fine, that you have that opinion. and i am assuming you still remember i am someone who has had more than 1 A. hence my difficutly with posting knowing you will read.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As the politicians are fond of saying 'Let me clarify my position on the issue' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . My view is that when it comes to dealing with a multiple affair WS, there is MORE than the issues of long neglected and unmet EN. There almost always seem to be unresolved personal issues with the WS that pre-date the marriage that appear to be the driving force for their A's. Does that mean that I beleive in 2 strikes and you are out? Of course not BUT unless the multiple affair WS acknowledges and seeks to resolve his/her unresolved personal issues, then no amount of marital counseling or coaching will stop the WS from continuing to engage in affairs in the future. It's like an addict that refuses to acknowledge that he/she has a problem and refuses to resolve it, with the likelyhood that one day he/she will lose his/her loved ones. In my own situation, no amount of begging, warning, or marital counseling helped to convince my XW that her affairs were not only destroying our marriage and family but her life as well. It was only after I divorced her and was granted by the courts physical custody of our daughters, that my XW eventually hit rock bottom and had to be institutionalized due to an attempted suicide. At that point, my XW had to admit that she WAS self destructing and wanted to become a healthy person once more. She underwent therapy and now is a much healthier person emotionally, mentally and physically than the person I was married to. Although it is too late for us now because I've moved on and remarried, I am nonetheless happy for her and for my daughters because now they have their mother back from the abyss. To sum up my thoughts on this topic, I do beleive that it is possible for a multiple A FWS to save and rebuild his/her marriage BUT ONLY if he/she acknowledges and is committed to resolved his/her personal issues which drove their A's [like you have], otherwise he/she will most probably continue of his/her self destructive path.

As far as worrying about hurting us BS because you are still struggling with NC, don't worry we MB BS's are made out of durable materiel that resists shrinking, fading, and staining. We are more than happy to give you a couple of good virtual 2x4 whacks over your head when you richly deserve them [you've got the lumps to prove them, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]

Hi JL,

thanks for the post. I agree... OM is NOT part of my future, in any way shape or form. and the thing is I DO NOT WANT HIM TO BE. even if i were single tommorow, OM is NOT someone I would seek out to be with. this is why i know it makes NO sense to waste any energy dwelling. but that is the point. I AM NOT DWELLING. i am acknowledging however that i was struggling yesterday. and rose was so right, my struggle is more about the addiction of wanting that "high" i got with OM. like a person who has quit smoking. deciding to quit smoking will not mean that there will not be moments of wanting to smoke again. and i think trying to ignore the feelings will only do me more harm then owning up to them and doing all i can to RELEASE THEM. as you say, look at the present and beyond. see i really am finally learning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AD,

why do i need to convince myself that my request is OK? good question. seems sort of silly, right?? the best answer i can give you is that i doubt myself so much sometimes. H worked so long always trying to convince me that my feelings (back when i was unhappy in the marriage) were wrong. the marriage was fine, the amount of time we spent together was fine. he is so level headed, he convinces me very easily and i have learned to doubt myself and i have learned to betray myself.

i am unlearning those habits now!! IC and I talked a lot about this last week.

anyway, he seemed open to the idea (of tonight) but when push comes to shove, if he gets too tired, that may go to the wayside but he will make sure he has enough energy to go out tommorow night as well as friday to the golf outing. i am pretty sure that will be the case anyway.

he used to argue that we did NOT have to enjoy each other interests to have a good marriage. i do believe he no longer thinks that way. i tried to become a golfer, took lessons, but i am sooooo far behind his level, it's not fun for him. however we have gone this year together a few times and he has relaxed and just tried to enjoy the time together. and we have gone to the driving range together.

on his side of it... he went to see Prince with me!!! that is saying a lot!!! i am a concert fan, he is not and he is certainly NOT a prince fan. so i do beleive he is trying. he initiated going on a bike ride with me recently too. and that is something he is not usually up for doing. bike riding is more my thing. we are no where near the 15hrs / week, but with kids that is really hard anyway. we have not talked about ensuring we spend a certain amount of time together. when we go to the lake, we do spend a lot of time together, but not alone time, since kids stay up late. but we sneak in time.

but to answer your question directly, yes his recreation activities have been such that he is gone a lot. he did switch the sat permanent tee time to wed morning instead a few years back. but this summer golf has been more out of control. he says it helps him deal with the A.

bottomline, progress is being made... and that is all i ask for.

i will think more about your thoughts on telling him when i struggle with NC.

TMCM (this will be short cuz i'm running out of time.) thanks for your clarification. i do believe we are pretty close to having the same opinion at this point in time. i do acknoweldge that i brought in much baggage from childhood, i am realizing now how much that impacted me and our marriage. but i also do believe that without the neglect and constant critisism, i would NOT have cheated on him. but then without my baggage maybe he would not have been so critical or neglectful??? one could go round and round with all that, don't ya think.

at this point, i just want to work on myself, learn healthy habits, work on marriage, be happy and bring happiness into my H and children's lives.

ok, with that i have to dash so i can perhaps manage to get dinner on the table before 6pm!!!

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>