Kloe, here's a rule that you have to remember always, always: do not allow fear to guide your actions. Learn to take it out of your decision-making at times like this. Just say goodbye to your fear and do what you have to do. You'll change so much by doing this, and you will raise a child that will be guided by your example.

GC

I'm not going to even comment until you have the conversation with him, then there will be more of an idea of where his head is right now.

Kloe, I know this is hard for you but I strongly recommend that you get everything out of him that you can in this conversation even if it is like pulling teeth.

I have been reading everything I can read from Cerri (aka Penny Tuppy) and I think that once this happens you should contact her at SYMC and get some coaching. She is incredible, and if my ex and I ever make it to recovery I am going to go to her for coaching, even if I have to take out a credit card to do it.

I know that one way or another you and baby girl will be happy, but it would be wonderful if you could be in recovery with your WH during the last three months of your pregnancy, before she is born.

I am really rooting for that for you, as I know everyone else here is also.

Weaver

Thanks guys. I know I need to be strong and not guided by fear, easier said than done. I've always been a conflict avoider. I'm just back to feeling so horrible today. Plus my birthday is next Saturday and I am alreadying starting to dread that.

Hopefully, I'll feel better after church and maybe my Redskins will win the season opener for me!

We will be meeting for dinner on Thursday at a Pizza place by the house. We'll see how it goes. I want to be hopeful, but it just doesn't seem good. I know his actions say one thing but I'm afraid his words will tell me that nothing has changed and he doesn't want to come home. I don't know what will be worse, knowing or not knowing.

Kloe,

To me nothing would be worse than not knowing. How can you know what you are dealing with if you stay in the dark? This is your life kiddo!

Just remember that we are behind you every step of the way, you have nothing to fear but fear itself.

I guess my ignorance is bliss policy just isn't going to cut it anymore. I know I need to be strong on Thursday and I will probably hear things I don't want to hear. However, if we don't get them out in the open we can't deal with them and move on, one way or another.

Kloe, be calm, cool, helpful, understanding. Don't be afraid to tell him how his A has hurt you, but don't dwell on that either. Let him direct the conversation once it gets going.

You know the routine. Compassion and self-respect, in good balance. No fear, sister!

GC

Well tonight is the night, I'll be meeting WH for dinner after work. Any last words of advice?

Kloe, I think you will be surprised, after this talk, no matter which way it goes, at how much the "unknown" has been sapping your strength and energy. The more my conflict-avoider H shares with me, giving me his honest opinion (not just what he thinks I want/need to hear), the more I realize how much the unsaid can rob from us.

My handle here, Spider Slayer, came about when I physically faced my worst emotional fear - being alone, without a partner, for an undetermined amount of time. The night I stopped panicking, took matters into my own hands, and realized that I was going to be fine no matter what, was a HUGE turning point for me. I let the fear go.

Isn't it so silly how we can fear something we don't even know for sure? He might do this, he might do that.

My H took me out to a very nice lunch, that I couldn't even eat, to tell me he was sure he wanted a D. Then he came home a month later. And my story is not atypical. It is the norm around here.

You did excellent, IMO, by sharing YOUR feelings with your H. When he was over that day with "nephew," his questions seemed to me to be probing you for information, for where he stood. Asking if your parents hated him. And reply about talking, he said 6 weeks to take care of the baby, and you if needed. He could take off more than 6 weeks if needed. This sounds to me like someone who definately has his head in the game, your game, not someone else's.

I remember how excited I was the first time H did a house chore, when he started hanging out around here more. He fertilized the yard. No biggie normally, but his head was in the game again. And it made me smile.

So, go slay something, and let the fear go. Just think of it all as a "wonderful learning opportunity." That is what our MC always says, and most of the time when he says it I want to rip his head off! BUT, when I am calm, it sounds much more encouraging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Go into that pizza joint tonight with peace, love, and compassion in your eyes. It sounds to me like he is afraid of hurting you. Show him you can take it, you are strong, you can get through this with him - together, as a team, as partners. He is scared too, I betcha.

My thoughts and prayers are with you tonight.

SS

Thanks SS, I was hoping you would reply. I always get such encouragement from your posts. He really does seem to be coming around and I put it all out there so he has no excuses. He called yesterday with what seemed to be some made up question just to confirm for tonight. I guess I'll know soon enough. If it's not too late when I get home, I'll post tonight and let you know how it went. Take care.

I just got home and things went alright. After dinner we sat outside at the restaurant and really talked. He says he is just not ready to come home. He knows when/if he comes home it will take a lot of time and work and right now he is so busy at work that he doesn't have the time to put into our M that he would need to. He also said that he was afraid that he would hurt me again and couldn't come home until he knew he wouldn't do that again. He says he knows he made a mistake. He also said he was worried about it being awkward around my parents and family. I told him that I was responsible for myself and my choices and he couldn't let that guide his decisions. I also told him that yes it probably would be awkward around my parents at first (but they don't know about the A) but they have never intereferred before and won't now. They want their grandchild to have a father.

I asked him if he would consider going to counseling now before any decisions were made. He said he just didn't have the time right now. I know he is extemely busy at work right now; however, I think this is just an excuse he is using. I did make it clear that him coming home would not be as simple as him saying he wants to move back in, that we would need to go to counseling and do some of the work first.

He is very frustrated with his job and that was hard for me to talk about. I make enough money that we could live on my salary alone but I told him I didn't want to go there because it seemed like a bribe. He has been at his job for 16 years and it is all he knows. I told him he has a lot more skills and opportunites then the he thinks he does. He is talking to two of his friends this weekend about a business opportunity, but without me he doesn't have the money to invest. I also told him that if we got back together I don't know how comfortable I would be with him staying at his current job since that is where OW works and he said he knew and has considered that.

He did admit that he does think about coming home. But he says one thing that he likes now is he doesn't have any responsiblities, he can work as late as he wants or go out (but he says he doesn't do that much) and then go home when ever. I told him that is because I have to take care of everything and that is hard for me and getting harder.

I did a good job listening, I just wish I knew how to better draw more out of him. I tried to ask some questions and that did open him up a little but I just couldn't think of enough questions. I teared up a little bit but didn't lose it. When we left he did give me a hug, something he hasn't done since June 23rd (our anniversary). He'll be coming over this weekend to do some stuff around the house. My birthday is Saturday so we'll see how that goes.

So we seem to be at the same place we were before, but I know a little more about what he is thinking. It's just so hard, I miss him so much.

I just checked my e-mail and had the following message from WH:

"It was good to see and talk to you tonight. I'm glad we started to talk about "us" again.

See ya later. Good night."

Kloe, that's wonderful. Don't sweat whether you questioned him enough. Maybe that was a GOOD thing.

He said all the things his recent actions suggest. But I think you should be careful not to get carried away in your efforts to reach out to him. Draw him to you the same way you have been. It's working. No need to turn up the volume, even if you're getting impatient.

Maybe it was the cookies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC

I am so glad you posted tonight! I have been checking in, looking, waiting. And I have to say, this is soooooo dejavu! Or however you spell it. This is almost exactly how it went for me and H in the very beginning. Of course, ours was louder because we are, well, very emotional creatures, and a bit freaky. BUT, I see all good, Kloe.

Especially the follow-up email from him. Hm. His wheels are turning. It is wierd. My experience of my H's behavior during that time, is that he HAD to say some of the things that had been swirling around in his brain for the time we were separated - but it wasn't necessarily how he really FELT.

These are the positives I see: He has been thinking about coming home (this is HUGE! IMO); he has been contemplating how to make money from a source other than his current employment (where the OW is); he doesn't LIKE his current employment (where the OW is); he is thinking ahead, of the future, with the awkward moments between relatives and friends, whether they know of the A or not, it is a bit awkward; he realizes he hurt you, badly, and wants to make sure that doesn't happen again. This last one is kind-of double-edged, though. IMO, it comes from a sense of guilt. My H, even when he first wanted to come home, didn't, because he felt that he didn't trust himself to not hurt me again, and didn't deserve to come back home. That is an issue he had to resolve on his own - with a LOT of help from IC.

The positives I see from you are: You are being open and honest about YOUR feelings; you have set clear boundaries (agreeing to IC and/or MC before him coming home); you are overall an excellent MBer, and an awesome girl, and I think you have a great chance of recovering your M.

Keep those communication lines open. When he comes over this weekend, wade into the R talk again. It doesn't seem to be taboo to him anymore. He said so in his last email to you! Talk about the 6 weeks off, maybe talk to him about lamazze (sp.) class again. Perhaps, since you couldn't think of questions on the spot, write some down tonight, tomorrow, so you might remember them at an opportune time. We know what happens to short-term memory of expectant mothers! One of the Step instructors at my gym is 5 months along, and we'll be 30 minutes into the routine, and she all-of-a-sudden cannot remember the next callout. We all just kind-of stand around, staring blankly at her. It is so funny.

Keep posting! I will be checking in tomorrow and Sunday to see how it's going. We are going camping at a hot springs with the Scouts this weekend, the family. I'm looking forward to being away with my H and kids.

SS

Thanks SS. His e-mail did throw me for a loop. It all seems good, but I can't get my hopes up and then come crashing down so I'm just trying to take it all in stride. I'm going to call the hospital tomorrow to see if any of the lamaze classes are available and then see if WH wants to take the classes with me.

Have a great weekend camping with your family. Hopefully you'll have nice weather; however, I remember how much fun WH and I had camping in the rain one time. Just enjoy being together!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It all seems good, but I can't get my hopes up and then come crashing down so I'm just trying to take it all in stride. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kloe, you are so wise. I get so excited, but there are no guarantees. I just remember how SURE Believer sounded about my chances way back when. She saw hope, she believed H would be back. And it lifted my heart, but I also didn't think it would happen SOON. I was ready for the long-haul, I tell ya. She likes to say that H came back chasing ME! And it did happen fast in my circumstance, and I was very scared. Excited, but scared.

You are right to temper hope with reality. I personally thing the Lamazze (sp.) class-checking is a great idea. Your H might really be interested in doing that with you, since he brought it up first. It was his idea! Might just be his round-about way of letting you know.

Listen to GC. He is wise also. Definately keep doing more of what you are doing. I remember one day my H said that he was thinking of inviting me to lunch with him and the boys on one of his weekends, but then thought it wouldn't be a good idea. After I told him I would have liked to have been invited, he invited me to dinner that night with him and the boys - in fact, that very night, we ended up watching a movie in the theater near the restaurant we ate at, the boys fell asleep in the van on the way home, H was driving . . . it was wonderful. We were totally platonic, H thought he still loved HW, just friends, but it was familiar. Driving the same roads we have for years, listening to the same music, in our family vehicle, soothed my soul.

Literally, about 10 days after that night, H came about 90% out of the fog. Have hope, Kloe. It does happen. Have hope.

SS

Hi Kloe,

I'm at work but came on to see how it went last night. I have to say I am a little bit annoyed at his continuing lack of committment, or maybe it's better to say lack of desire to get back into the marriage. He is too willing to float along in limbo land. The total absence of passion is troublesome too and I don't mean just the sex part.

The others are right you can't and shouldn't push, however I think a little taste of what life would be like without you might be just what this guy needs. And I also think that if you are going to Plan A, you should start to be a little more seductive with him.

JMO

Take care Kloe and have a good weekend.

We all know what you think, weaver! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just kidding.

You've had less patience for the WS lately, and I'm extremely glad you're here expressing that. There's enough righteous indignation to go around, but it usually comes in the form of anguish, sadness, and disappointment. I love that you're here to point at our WS and shout,

"J'accuse!"

Thanks for that.

Kloe, how do you think the impending arrival of his first child is affecting your H's motivation right now? I think I know the answer, but I'll let you give it if you want.

GC

It shows heh Gray? I'm trying to watch myself but I am leaning towards the tough love theory more and more.

Anyway Kloe, please call the Harley's or Penny Tuppey to get some advice here. We can support you and give our feedback but I really think you need some coaching from Harley, Jennifer or Penny.

It shows heh Gray? I'm trying to watch myself but I am leaning towards the tough love theory more and more.

Anyway Kloe, please call the Harley's or Penny Tuppey to get some advice here. We can support you and give our feedback but I really think you need some coaching from Harley, Jennifer or Penny.