I'm glad I helped TUS (that is the initials of your new name by the way).

I mean it when I say "happiness". I was totally miserable for 2 years - all day, every day - because of what I was doing to my H, because of the way I was being treated by the OM. The relief and happiness I now feel, safely back and in love with my H and without the "jerk" anywhere near my life is wonderful. Lovely normal days and a lovely normal life.

It's worth it to get through the withdrawal and I know, it absolutely sucks to go through.

If you're sincere about all this, Tolduso, and I think you are - you can do this.

Jen

TUS, I posted to you on your original thread and at the time was really quite disrespectful regarding rrh despite knowing he was going to be reading what I said about him. It ticked me off to know that you, a young 24 (?) year old was being so completely mainipulated by an older, practiced liar. I knew when we did not hear back that you had gotten on that plane with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Fast forward to now. Ok, so you are afraid you'll break down and contact? Here's a tool for you: www.drjoecarver.com Read the Identifying Losers article. I'd link you directly to it but my computer keeps freezing up so I can't get to it. I think you will quickly be able to see exactly what you have been up against.

Pep is right, stop being a victim here, take control and the more info you have the more able you will be to take control of your life back. It's time to grow up, little girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm glad you are back, some of us were rather worried about you. Men who threaten suicide and kidnapping to "make" their lovers return to them are mentally unhealthy at the minimum and dangerous at the worst. Get home, Sweetie as soon as you can, you are at risk where you are. KB

"We're different" is classic. There used to be a great post on here about OW thinking their "different," that he'll treat her "differently" than he treated his wife, that their love is "different" and they're soul mates. Just as teenagers think they'll never get pregnant, people in affairs think they're above it all because it's "different." They think the pain they inflict on innocent people is justified because their world is "different." As Tom Joad said, it makes me want to puke too.

Staying there to prove that there will be no contact is a bucket load of horse dung...a big bucket load. Your hoping/wanting him to come back. Why would you want to throw away a perfectly fine husband for a man who treats you as if you're trash. Why wouldn't he? He treats his family as if they're trash-easily thrown away.

Quit whining, grow up and get home. Leave this pathetic excuse for a man behind and don't give him another thought. You want people to be gentle with you because you're hurting! This pain is self inflicted so how gentle are we to be?

As you said, mllc/tolduso you were warned. What was told to you came to pass. Stop whining and face what you have done. Count your blessings that your family even wants to speak with you at all. Go home and start to repair what you've destroyed. There is nothing there for you.

OK TUS,
You say that you are NOW ready to make a commitment to save your marriage.

GET OUT of the apartment NOW!

Write the OM a No Contact letter and NEVER have contact with him again.

Take the offer from your parents and get a ticket home. Move in with them and begin working on yourself.

Tell your husband everything that you have done and see what develops. It will not be easy for him to get over what has happened, give him time and space.

Did I say, don't EVER contact the OM again? You CAN do this, you have to make the decision to be in charge of your own life.

TUS...your last post as about 5:00--a little concerned when you are in an apartment alone, no $, no friends, and apparently only a computer. And the only one you "know" is the OM.

You're making steps in the right direction. You really are. But are you just trying to convince yourelf? Us? If you are serious about rebuilding yourself and your M, start NOW!

Please, tus, what do you want? You still haven't answered that. If it's a real life with a real man with a real M and real accountability, get on the phone with your Mom and tell her that. Beg, plead, do what you have to do to get the next flight out of there. Not in a week. (Why a week?) NOW!

Knew better,
Thanks for that link. The "funny" thing is, more of the characteristics of a loser apply to me in our relationship than to him, but most to both of us. He has always been like that w/ his W, too. I was not like that w/ my H.

N/C means that I can't even send this link to him, right?

Will write more later.

Right, NO CONTACT!

Are you serious about rebuilding your life? go back and read the responses you have received. Start making changes TODAY, get out of the apartment and don't look back!

Ok, you guys were all right. Even though OM is living w/ his W again, he came over here after my last post & told me he still loved me, "it just doesn't seem like it's meant to be." I started crying & he picked me up & everything went down hill from there. He went digging in the dumpster for things I'd thrown away & other things to "show me his love." When it was time for him to go, we ended it where he's going to come by again, he just didn't know when...

Last night I felt so guilty & angry for what I'd done. I haven't been eating & hadn't slept much the night b/f, so I was really tired & fell asleep early. I woke up around 4am & thought everything through. I know that I need to get out of here. He might tell me that it's over or I might tell him the next time & we might plan on it actually being over, but what happens when he's "weak" again? He is too good of a manipulater & I am too weak. He'd "ended" our relationship by saying he can't leave his kids. I know that is only a small part of the reason. He is not making me any promises to leave or anything like that anymore, so that's good. He said that he wishes we'd never confessed so we could keep the relationship like it was b/f we did. I know that if I were an onlooker, this would all make me sick. This attachment I have to him is so painful, yet I have not determined to leave him! Can someone tell me why? Is it just b/c I'm a weak person? I feel guilty for the way I treated him & sometimes I feel like I need to make up for it. Last night he told me that if I hadn't been so negative about our relationship all the time, he wouldn't have left me. I miss the good times so much! Please tell me what an idiot I am & how it's so obvious that he's a loser? When he "ends it", I feel so rejected & when I end it I feel so guilty. Should I feel rejected when it is rejection by a man like him? It seems to hurt my pride more than anything to think that I left the great life I had for nothing more than a lying, cheating, etc. guy. I thought he was better than what I had.
I told my H what happened & he was very upset, obviously. I told him that I need to leave here or he's going to do that again or I'm going to go crazy by myself. The car I'm borrowing from him is not registered & yest. I got a warning for it, so I don't have many places to go. The other thing is that we have taken turns leaving eachother & each time we've simply gotten back together...Everytime we've left eachother, I've gone to a different state & so my mom's point is "what difference does it make if you're here or there"? -You'll end up giving in either way. Coming here only wastes more money flying you around. & I know she's right. I need to be determined...

TOLDUSO,
Why are you posting here for advice, if you're not going to follow it? Arent you tired of being a puppet for OM? Arent you tired of losing your self respect? I don't mean to be harsh, but this is getting ridiculous. Leave, if he comes by do not let him in, Leave, if he calls you do not answer, Leave, Do what you know is right, stop acting like you are a child, you are a grown up woman, with power, beauty and strength; it's time to act like it.

Leave.

What concerns me right now the most is your mental/emotional deterioration by your continued contact with OM.
Many WS have attempted suicide when the pain and guilt they've experienced has become unbearable. PLEASE, for your mental/emotional wellbeing, leave the OM and never again have contact with him. If you are not ready to go back to your H, then temporarily go live with your parents in order to heal. Get a restraining order against the OM so he will leave you alone.

This OM, like most OM, has shown his true colors and he is nothing but poison for you physically, mentally and emotionally. Leave NOW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>
This OM, like most OM, has shown his true colors and he is nothing but poison for you physically, mentally and emotionally. Leave NOW. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This OM disgusts me!!!!
He seems to get pleasure from treating you this way and keeping you at his beck and call. He knows your vulnerability and he's totally taking advantage of you. If you were my little siser I'd come get you and bring you home immediately. Please get out of this crazy loop. He will only continue to go back and forth between you and his W..get off the rollercoaster before you hurt yourself.

I don't know much about your situation. It seems like you feel very stuck. You need to severe all ties to this OM. I can see your confusion in your posts. If you want to prove anything, prove it to yourself...quit falling victim to your emotions and take control of your body. It doesn't really matter honestly who you are with, you are gonna have rough times in the future, as things currently stand, you will become as bad as OM down the road, always following your feelins instead of doing what you KNOW is right.

Feeling trapped and helpless? Why don't you sell the computer you are on, abandon that car that is worthless and the OM's, and pick up your phone, call the local YWCA and go check in with the few dollars you have from selling the computer. Don't tell OM any of this. When there, they have activities to keep you busy, just do them, sign up for all of them, basketball, volleyball, whatever, basketweaving if you must...keep physically busy, it occupies your mind. This WILL help you break free from the pain you are feeling moping around that apartment. YWCA. It's really not that tough.

As of now, you are simply just posting here to vent in the public, to have an ear. I don't see you making a single move to actually do anything to fix things. I wouldn't bring you home either. If you don't make a single step to fix this first, you will find this life you are in to be your final chapter to what you enter.

BTW...If you keep doing the same things over and over, why would you ever expect a different result?

tolduso - I'm curious about your reference to your mother and her "requirement" that you be "repentant."

This being "repentant" is usually connected to a faith in Christ, so what IS your relationship, or lack of one, with Jesus Christ? Is Christ a part of your life or not?

The "help" available to you will depend a lot on your answer.

For now, let me simply say that you don't have "sometime" to get back together with your husband. At 24 you have not likely been married that long. I assume that there are no children yet, so he CAN divorce you without the added pain of a "broken home" for children.

If you don't really want to lose your husband, you had better get home right now and establish NO Contact with the slimy user of an OM immediately. You are demostrably weak in your decision making skills and easily manipulated by your feelings and by the OM. The ONLY way to protect yourself and to potentially recover your marriage, or at least to become a better and more mature and stable woman should your husband decide to divorce you, is to END all contact with the OM and endure the withdrawal pains just the way you would if kicking any addictive substance.

The clock is ticking. You no longer have any time to waste. Now go and do the right thing.

TUS,
I see no point in continuing to tell you to leave the OM's apartment and not have any contact with him again. Until you decide that the fantasy life you are wishing for is just that, you are not going to be able to learn from any of this advise.

You are destroying 2 marriages and taking a father from his children. You KNOW that as long as you live there, you are still his mistress. this is MB, you asked for help and are ignoring it.

I don't think you were flamed here at all, just given a dose of reality and you are not listening. If you are sincere about ending the relationship, DO IT TODAY! A NC letter and an empty apartment would be a good 1st step.

No more words from me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Foreverhers,

I got saved when I was 13 & lived for Christ: worked in the church, went to Bible college, etc. The OM has a similar background, minus the Bible college. Since our affair started, my relationship w/ Christ has been almost non-existent. We had it for 4 months b/f we confessed & had terrible guilt. Often the OM would convince me that it "wasn't that bad", but he also had times of strong conviction. We finally told b/c of the guilt of hiding it. Anyway, in the process of the last 5 mo., I have made an effort to go back to Christ (read my Bible, pray, go to church, etc.) every time we leave eachother. I started doing this when he left on Sat., but when he came over on Sun., I stopped.

OK...I said my last post was two posts ago...but, tus, you still have yet to answer a very "simple" question:

What do you want?

oops,double post!

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: knewbetter ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tolduso:
<strong> Knew better,
Thanks for that link. The "funny" thing is, more of the characteristics of a loser apply to me in our relationship than to him, but most to both of us. He has always been like that w/ his W, too. I was not like that w/ my H.

N/C means that I can't even send this link to him, right?

Will write more later. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TUS, Your answer is confusing to me. I have to ask what you meant. I find it hard to imagine that you a 24 year old young woman behave with loser characteristics with the OM but not your H. Let's go over them briefly:

1. ROUGH TREATMENT
Is there violence in your relationship? Are you thinking that you are violent? Men who threaten kidnapping are generally not docile men. What's the reality here?

2. QUICK ATTACHMENT AND EXPRESSION
I could see you owning up to this, ESPECIALLY with an OM such as this.

3. FRIGHTENING TEMPER
Well, he's been jailed by the wife, so who's got the temper problem here, you or him?

4. KILLING YOUR SELF CONFIDENCE
I'll be brutally honest here. At least when you first started posting, even though your point was illogical and mistaken, you sounded somewhat lucid, not as confused as you do now. {{TUS}}

5. CUTTING OFF YOUR SUPPORT
No brainer on who's guilty here. YOU are stuck far from home with NOTHING. Even your parents are hesitant to bail you out this time. Wonder how it got so far? SURELY you can see OM had something major to do with this point.

6. THE MEAN AND SWEET CYCLE
You haven't told all (it's BAD isn't it?) but what we do know is that you were "sweet talked" into moving out of state from your loving H's home and are now abandoned by OM in favor of the wife, although he did do you the "favor" of having sex ("I love you, baby!!")with you last night anyway. No wonder you feel awful and confused. NO CONTACT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM BEING USED ANY FURTHER!

7. IT'S ALWAYS YOUR FAULT.
Well??

8. BREAKUP PANIC
Ok I can see you owning this one, it is part of affair fog. The idea of breaking up causes panic. However, the article is talking about predators TUS, and I do not think you are that. OM , on the other hand fits the profile. He will panic at the thought of losing you as he has so many times before.

You don't realize how p/oed his suicide post made me. WAY too triggering for me. Kidnap you and "make" you show him that all the things you said are true??? Well, he did do it and now is having second thoughts. Losers drop their prey like a hot potato when they are really done. Read that part of the article again and see if you can convince ME that it is not applicable to your situation.

9. NO OUTSIDE INTERESTS
You think if you stay where you are, in a relationship with OM that he is going to allow you ANY kind of life? Be honest.

10. PARANOID CONTROL
Only you know if you are allowed any freedom to speak to people, to go places on your own ect.

11. PUBLIC EMBARRASMENT
I'm sure you've had your moments given that your entire church/town knows what happened. Don't know if it is due to you or OM though. How much does OM control your public behavior through the means described?

12. IT'S NEVER ENOUGH
You know the answer to this in your heart. You are very off balance right now, how much of it has to do with what OM has been telling you about yourself, about reality?

13. ENTITLEMENT
We all see what OM's sense of entitlement has done to your life. You blow with the wind, you are so young. Like I said, time to grow up, you need to for YOURSELF. It's a good thing. I could understand you applying this point to your self but I also think you might be misunderstanding what is meant by the term entitlement in this context.

14. YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY DISLIKE HIM
DUH and btw this one does work both ways. You are the OW to his friends and family. I doubt his wife whom he is supposedly reconciling with would be happy with what happened last night. Any chance you would consider directing her here?

15. BAD STORIES
As Dr. Carver says, people often let you know about their personalities by the stories they tell about themselves. Read the article again and think on what applies to OM especially the stories about his bad marriage and about how he was so fabulous. Take note of the part where Dr. Carver explains that how they treat others is the way you will eventually be treated. Oh, why did I say that??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You ALREADY are experiencing this.

16. THE WAITRESS TEST
This is about how losers really feel about the opposite sex. I’d say you don’t even need the waitress test with OM. He treats you AND his wife like queens for a short period of time and then goes right back to treating both of you like a piece of used Kleenex. Not good.

17. THE REPUTATION
OM must have a horrible reputation in your hometown as do you after all this drama but this part is actually talking about how reputation is other people’s perception of an individual’s behavior. How do people perceive OM overall? Does OM have ANY (especially male) friends? I’m asking for more than acquaintances here.

Losers don’t have true friends because people with healthy emotions and boundaries don’t tolerate being treated badly. Please tell me why YOU should be in bondage to this man any longer?

18. WALKING ON EGGSHELLS
This refers to verbal intimidation, temper tantrums, lengthy interrogations and/or violence/ threats directed at others but witnessed by you. Keeps you on your toes b/c you don’t want to be next. Can you relate or is it you who engages in this type of behavior? Somehow I doubt it is you. Again refer to the kidnap threat.

19. DISCOUNTED FEELINGS/OPINIONS
You are questioning OM on what the heck is going on but as you know he can make you think that what you are going through is NORMAL b/c he "loves you so much, baby." If you keep pushing the point he could get violent, so get the heck out of that apartment as soon as you can.

20. THEY MAKE YOU CRAZY
I like Dr. Carver’s point that there is no such thing as normal when you are in combat mode. Believe me, TUS you are in a war situation and your backup is far, far away. Are you the crazy maker or have you been acting crazy (hopping on airplane with the OM was crazy!) b/c you have given up your autonomy to this man? OM HAS TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF YOU BUT YOU ALLOWED IT. The guy is a definite “LOSER” (Dr. Carver’s word for abuser/predator).

39 year old men do not belong with 24 year old girls even leaving out the fact that you are both married and that he has children. The guy is a predator, plain and simple. You got taken in by his superior life experience, TUS.

This does not let you off the hook but in my opinion you didn’t have the defenses against the type of character this man is. I don’t think any of us have an expectation of evil and when we meet it don’t recognize it. You must make things right if you have any hope for the future. You need to get away from OM ASAP, I don’t care how.

I have taken quite a bit of time to help you understand the profile that Dr. Carver outlined. There is a difference between a predator/abuser loser and a loser in the general sense. I know that you don't feel good about yourself right now and I don't blame you but you are capable of fixing this.

You must find a way to establish No Contact for your own mental health, TUS. Please go home, agree to see a professional if that is an option for you. You need to find YOURSELF in this mess.

You really have been kidnapped, but now it's time to go home. Did you read the part about dangerous and psychotic losers? They stalk, follow, harrass you, threaten to kill themselves (or others) if you try to leave them. Sound familiar??

I know you thought those behaviors were his expresion of love for you but sweetie, they are an expression of MENTAL ILLNESS. I read rrh's posts, he sounds well spoken but that means NOTHING. This guy is dangerous to you. Please reread the guidlines for detaching from the loser. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on all of this. KB

Sorry no response for a while. I was on a rollercoaster ride w/ OM again. This time leaving for good. Will not answer calls. If he comes to apt., I will leave. It'll take a few days to convince my parents to let me come there, but I know that's what's best & I'm going to work like crazy through withdrawals. It's going to be a very difficult ride ahead. Will need lots of help & planning on seeking it like never b/f. Would write more, but I'm emotionally drained & having a difficult time thinking. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

Wow! It's been hard to think it's over, but it's really hard to know it's over. It hasn't been an hour and I'm already crying, exhausted, but not able to sleep, tv doesn't distract me, & I keep hoping he shows up at the door! Please help! I'm going to read my Bible for a while...