WOE, maybe you did talk about your quality/quantity time together. It could be I'm just a crummy listener. Beginning to think of each other as BFs again is huge. I'm happy for you. That's a biggie for me. Most of our M I thought of H as my BF. I definitely thought of him as my BF before the A happened. I know without a doubt I have always been his BF. Somehow it's difficult to think of him as my BF after what occurred for 8 months.

Yesterday and today were down days for me. Yesterday when H came home he asked me how I was doing. I told him I was down and he asked me why. I said, "The same reason I've been down for months now." It was amazing. For a minute he really didn't know what I was talking about. That showed me how much the FWS has no clue what it feels like to be betrayed in a M, and I know H is remorseful.

This morning he left to take my OS to check out colleges. When he left I had this wave of sadness again. I'm pretty sure it triggered a trip he took to the same area in 8/03. He borrowed OW's laptop so they could IM each other. Later today I was going through papers and found several of his MC charge bills for restaurants from last year. I wondered if he went there with her. Again I got another wave of feeling sick just remembering what I felt like last year during this deception. Boy it hurts!

WOE, yes H did end contact. It surprises me sometimes given the intensity of his A that he did go pretty much cold turkey. He claims he is defogged. He claims he is over her and actually said something like he realizes she could have been anyone so the ILYs weren't that meaningful. We talk, do a lot together, and hold each other in bed. Yet he isn't back yet. When I mentioned recently how I will need more, and said he never says ILY, he told me, "CV, ILY. And it's not like your my roommate or my sister." I have asked him that before. Yet he spontaneously doesn't tell me ILY. I'm ready for some major Plan Aing for me, but I'm still the major giver here. And I still wonder if we can find our way back to each other after the experience he had. Can I get over what they did together in the in-love state?

Well, sorry WOE. I guess I'm still kind of down. I wrote on recovery a few days ago and mostly people who feel like me responded. I'm just one sorry BS today. Thanks for sticking with me. CV

CV, thank you as well for following my story. I have also been watching the thread in reocvery that you are referring to. I wanted to make a point about something you said (slight 2 x 4). You mentioned that your H's (plural to include the other posters) were lucky to have wives that enjoyed sex. I honestly take exception with that statement. My W will say this to me and it's not fair. My response to that is that men don't have sex with their wives to inflict pain or belittle them. For most it is exactly as the term applies; making love. SF is more than an emotional need for me it is a physical need as well. Just like most men. I hope you don't take offense to this. I didn't want to jump in on that other thread but wanted to mention this for you to think about.

You also mention about getting over the PA vs
EA. Well as you know I'm in the opposite boat these days. It was interesting to see the other posters validating your feelings because that doesn't seem to be the popular belief. But anyway I think men don't view sex as the big deal that woman do. For a woman to have sex is in most cases a very big leap in the relationship but not so for men. I don't know that that helps you but I don't think you should put too much stock in the sex part though I well understand it hurts. His statement that it could have been anyone would seem true. I have said this to my W though she would never admit it. She likes to hold onto the theory that God blessed her with this wonderful person. But really it is our spouses that were looking for something.

I am glad your H is starting to come around. My progress as you know has been very slow but we are always moving in the right direction. I can relate to the major Plan Aing. I'm so ready to be "re-discovered" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . The other thing you mentioned was that the WS has no idea what the BS is going through. That is so true. Can you even imagine the look my W would give me if I mentioned falling into my friends arms because OM answered her cell phone when my son called his mother. I would get the biggest "GET OVER IT" you ever heard. She just couldn't comprehend this and honestly that is something I need to come to terms with. I can honestly relate to her mindset in that regard.

Looking for colleges sounds like it will bring you and H together. We did the same this summer and while their were a few bumps it was a positive experience. CV, you will NEVER regret staying. NEVER. It will come back and you'll have a better relationship. Just judging by the way your H responds to your questions. Thoughtfully and with sensitivity and honesty. What more could you want?

WOE, I never mind getting a 2x4 from you. You're always so nice when you whack me over the head. I'm actually not sure I understand this 2x4, so maybe you can explain it. I didn't get your 1st paragraph about 'Taking exception" about having a W who enjoys sex, and the part about men don't have sex to inflict pain or belittle their Ws.

What I was trying to say in that thread is that many a WS seems to have been not having the SF EN met. Of course no excuse for having an A. Particularly you hear stories that the W isn't into it. Maybe that's one of the aspects of H's A that is doubly hard to get over. The fact that I didn't stray during his sexual dysfunction. Like you it was and is a need for me. That he withheld from me for months and fulfilled his need and OWs that whole time makes me sick. What's also hard is that we were good together. Now that seems like a dream.

As far as men not viewing the sex as a big deal, I was referring to the male BS seems to be really bothered by the PA, while the female BS is more bothered by the EA. At least that is what I've read. Now what you said is interesting in that maybe the FWH doesn't view sex with the OW as a big deal. I think that is true of my H. He told me from the beginning it was the EA that was powerful.

WOE, I hope your W gets the impact of her A on you one day. I just read in "Not Just Friends" the following on forgiveness. "Forgiveness is a process. In couples who heal together, forgiveness is built on sincere remorse of the unfaithful partner. It involves both of you. Over time, you have made good on your intention to reconcile and have demonstrated (through specific acts of relationship building) a committment to each other." At some point your W will have to validate your feelings and she will need to get over the "Get over it" attitude.

WOE, thanks for being so positive about our recovery, in spite of my ongoing doubts. Yes, I am fortunate that H is remorseful and has been willing to talk. You ask, "What more could you want?" I actually want much more than this, but I need to learn patience. I hope both of our Ms survive and make it to a better place. CV